Texas and Oklahoma joining the SEC

[KevFu]

For the Pac, there really isnt an incentive to take on anyone else from the BigXII.

Georgraphy stretches out a lot farther for lower tier schools in their own states and that's a major issue if you're not football or basketball.

IF Pac-12 needed to become Pac-14 I would think San Diego St & UNLV to fill in the largest 2 markets within their footprint.

PacNW: Washington, Wazzu, Oregon, Oregon St
PacNorCal: Cal, Stanford, Nevada, Fresno St
PacSoCal: USC, UCLA, SD St, UNLV
PacMtn: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado

The Pac-12's reason for expansion is to add a group of schools in the Central time zone to open up another time slot, get more exposure, and get more viewers so they can get better media rights deals going forward.

It doesn't matter how good SDSU or UNLV are, they're not getting invited to the Pac-12 based on academics.

The Pac-12 would invite Kansas, Houston, TCU and Tulane before adding SDSU, UNLV, Boise St or BYU.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Boise State and BYU should be in the Big 12 because the Pac-12 really could use real competition out west.

I'm sure that BYUtv can be included in a Big 12 TV deal. Plus Boise State can claim to have the only non-green football playing surface in the Power 5.

 

[mouser]

Boise State and BYU should be in the Big 12 because the Pac-12 really could use real competition out west.

I'm sure that BYUtv can be included in a Big 12 TV deal. Plus Boise State can claim to have the only non-green football playing surface in the Power 5.

Hard to argue with that line of reasoning.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Competition isn’t the driving factor of expansion, acquiring new TV markets is the reason. The PAC 12 already has SLC with Utah, so doubling up with BYU doesn’t really add much, and Boise isn’t really a major factor of consideration for expansion’s sake for a healthy conference.

That being said, I am surprised that the Big 12 hasn’t tried to move on them given that dire straits that they’ve been in. Or really even other programs like New Mexico and UNLV or Nevada.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Competition isn’t the driving factor of expansion, acquiring new TV markets is the reason. The PAC 12 already has SLC with Utah, so doubling up with BYU doesn’t really add much, and Boise isn’t really a major factor of consideration for expansion’s sake for a healthy conference.

That being said, I am surprised that the Big 12 hasn’t tried to move on them given that dire straits that they’ve been in. Or really even other programs like New Mexico and UNLV or Nevada.

6-7 years ago, yes, but no longer. Cable's impending death changes that, the future will be about the networks acquiring more fanbases to drive streaming subscriptions. It's the indirect model of the past vs. the direct model of the future, essentially.

 

[KevFu]

6-7 years ago, yes, but no longer. Cable's impending death changes that, the future will be about the networks acquiring more fanbases to drive streaming subscriptions. It's the indirect model of the past vs. the direct model of the future, essentially.

It changes nothing. Cable vs streaming, it's a wire coming into your house, from one of the same nine companies that own everything. It's no different "adding TV viewers" than "adding streaming viewers."

 

[IU Hawks fan]

It changes nothing. Cable vs streaming, it's a wire coming into your house, from one of the same nine companies that own everything. It's no different "adding TV viewers" than "adding streaming viewers."

Of course it does, it's a completely different business model.

Previously, the Big Ten wanted to be in the New York and DC markets so that non-sports fans would subsidize them.

The future is only sports fans paying for these subscriptions, not banking on every cable subscriber being forced to pay for it.

Comcast may own the wire but they don't own the rights, Disney will.

 

[sh724]

It changes nothing. Cable vs streaming, it's a wire coming into your house, from one of the same nine companies that own everything. It's no different "adding TV viewers" than "adding streaming viewers."

That is somewhat accurate, but with streaming a lot of the more casual fans that watch football bc its on may not pay for ESPN+, or may watch something else instead that they otherwise wouldnt have access to, or they could watch the game after its completed and fast forward through all the commercial breaks. Streaming also allows people to have a much larger number of games to choose from and they can pick whatever is most appealing of the 20+ games going on at the same time instead of the handful they can choose from on cable.

With cable you can only watch what the TV channels want to put on the air. With streaming you have tens of thousands different options

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Cincinnati joining the ranks of the P5 should lead them to discontinue their series with the Miami (OH) RedHawks, which they haven't lost since 2005 AFAIK, in favor of one with Ohio State, with UC's home games in the series being played in Paul Brown Stadium.

Cincinnati becoming as relevant as OSU within the state in CFB would be similar to what has happened in Kentucky since 1994.

The Louisville Cardinals are 15-11 against the Kentucky Wildcats since that series resumed in 1994, and Louisville rose up from C-USA to the Big East/American to the ACC over a 20-year period.

As an OSU fan, I am in favor of this. Unlike a lot of Big Ten schools, OSU doesn't have a major OOC rival within the P5 right now. Many Big Ten schools have rivalries with Notre Dame (also one of my schools). Iowa also has Iowa State, Maryland has Virginia, and Penn State has Pittsburgh. I feel OSU is being left out by not having something like this.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Cincinnati joining the ranks of the P5 should lead them to discontinue their series with the Miami (OH) RedHawks, which they haven't lost since 2005 AFAIK, in favor of one with Ohio State, with UC's home games in the series being played in Paul Brown Stadium.

Cincinnati becoming as relevant as OSU within the state in CFB would be similar to what has happened in Kentucky since 1994.

The Louisville Cardinals are 15-11 against the Kentucky Wildcats since that series resumed in 1994, and Louisville rose up from C-USA to the Big East/American to the ACC over a 20-year period.

As an OSU fan, I am in favor of this. Unlike a lot of Big Ten schools, OSU doesn't have a major OOC rival within the P5 right now. Many Big Ten schools have rivalries with Notre Dame (also one of my schools). Iowa also has Iowa State, Maryland has Virginia, and Penn State has Pittsburgh. I feel OSU is being left out by not having something like this.

What does OSU gain from this? Feels like a lose/lose to me. Either you beat Cincy as you're supposed to, or you lose 1 out of every 10 or whatever. They're better off keeping their schedule open for higher profile matchups.

 

[mouser]

Cincinnati joining the ranks of the P5 should lead them to discontinue their series with the Miami (OH) RedHawks, which they haven't lost since 2005 AFAIK, in favor of one with Ohio State, with UC's home games in the series being played in Paul Brown Stadium.

Cincinnati becoming as relevant as OSU within the state in CFB would be similar to what has happened in Kentucky since 1994.

The Louisville Cardinals are 15-11 against the Kentucky Wildcats since that series resumed in 1994, and Louisville rose up from C-USA to the Big East/American to the ACC over a 20-year period.

As an OSU fan, I am in favor of this. Unlike a lot of Big Ten schools, OSU doesn't have a major OOC rival within the P5 right now. Many Big Ten schools have rivalries with Notre Dame (also one of my schools). Iowa also has Iowa State, Maryland has Virginia, and Penn State has Pittsburgh. I feel OSU is being left out by not having something like this.

Hmm, since 2005 Ohio State and Cincinnati have played three times, with Ohio State winning all three games by a collective score of 129-35, including a 42-0 drubbing two years ago in 2019.

Ohio State has no interest in a "series" with Cincinnati. OSU will schedule Cincinnati as a non conference sacrificial lamb home game when they need filler on the schedule.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Again, Cincinatti is a non-starter for a healthy power five conference to consider. They don't being enough to the table for the Big Ten, SEC, or ACC to really consider.

Maybe a troubled Big 12 would take them, but Cincy is not in the same neighborhood as the powers that be in this conversation.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Again, Cincinatti is a non-starter for a healthy power five conference to consider. They don't being enough to the table for the Big Ten, SEC, or ACC to really consider.

Maybe a troubled Big 12 would take them, but Cincy is not in the same neighborhood as the powers that be in this conversation.

Louisville was in a similar situation years ago.

Cincinnati to me, is the next Louisville.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Louisville was in a similar situation years ago.

Cincinnati to me, is the next Louisville.

Read up a little on the rise of Louisville Athletics and get back to us. Do some research before spouting assumptions.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Anyone who doesn't want a UC-OSU rivalry to be as competitive as say, OU-Texas doesn't know what a rivalry truly is.

And as a member of the Big 12, I see UC becoming very respectable and good, and once that happens it will be hard not to take them seriously.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

It’s not about wanting a rivalry, it’s recognizing that it isn’t a rivalry and that it’s not even close to being one.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

People laughed at the idea of Kentucky-Louisville becoming a legitimate football rivalry 30 years ago. And yet it became one.

That's where Cincinnati-Ohio State is now. With the move to the Big 12, Cincinnati will become a more attractive choice for recruits coming out of high school, potentially giving the Bearcats the ability to compete better with OSU.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

People laughed at the idea of Kentucky-Louisville becoming a legitimate football rivalry 30 years ago. And yet it became one.

That's where Cincinnati-Ohio State is now. With the move to the Big 12, Cincinnati will become a more attractive choice for recruits coming out of high school, potentially giving the Bearcats the ability to compete better with OSU.

Kentucky isn't Ohio State.

They have two (2) 10 win seasons since 1950.

 

[PCSPounder]

There’s reasons the Red Wings and Avalanche were a thing 20 years ago.

There’s reasons Michigan plays Michigan State in October and Ohio State in November.

There’s reasons the biggest rivalry on the continent is Chivas v America (and that’s not even to talk about UdeG v Chivas or Pumas or Cruz Azul v America) and many Americans don’t even know what teams I just mentioned.

Proximity isn’t everything.

 

[NextBigThing]

There’s reasons the biggest rivalry on the continent is Chivas v America

lol not even close to being the biggest rivalry on the continent.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

There’s reasons the Red Wings and Avalanche were a thing 20 years ago.

There’s reasons Michigan plays Michigan State in October and Ohio State in November.

There’s reasons the biggest rivalry on the continent is Chivas v America (and that’s not even to talk about UdeG v Chivas or Pumas or Cruz Azul v America) and many Americans don’t even know what teams I just mentioned.

Proximity isn’t everything.

Well Michigan and Ohio are border states, so proximity is pretty important in it. And MSU didn't have football until 20 years after the 1st UM/OSU meeting, and didn't join the conference until 20 years after. While they were an independent, the 2 typically played at the beginning of the year, similar to Iowa/Iowa St.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

People laughed at the idea of Kentucky-Louisville becoming a legitimate football rivalry 30 years ago. And yet it became one.

That's where Cincinnati-Ohio State is now. With the move to the Big 12, Cincinnati will become a more attractive choice for recruits coming out of high school, potentially giving the Bearcats the ability to compete better with OSU.

yeah, because Kentucky-Louisville was already a monster basketball rivalry.

sorry not sorry, you're not going to make OSU fans hate anyone besides Michigan

 

[PCSPounder]

I have began to sense that the real reason for the alliance is to keep ESPN a bit more honest and to ensure competition for media rights. Dangling the carrot of more P5 OOC games would seem to work towards that end.

Also, even if UNLV & SDSU were stellar academic institutions, the Pac-12 has something of a territory. This is everything west of the continental divide and east into Colorado and nearby states. Adding any more schools in that territory does NOT increase the slices of the media rights pie that the Pac covets; these are deemed money-losers. When Colorado joined the Pac, the conference had already mentioned something of a formula they would consider for expansion, and Colorado was the minimum size state for that. The problem: when other expansion prospects fell through, Utah was a fallback of necessity, and that probably limited the increase for Pac schools.