Tell me how we realistically fix our defense...

[Frk It]

Even Dekeyser wouldn't be able to make Green look good if he's out against top lines every night.

None of our defenseman look good going against top lines every night.

Green is just likely the least bad option on the right side.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You do nothing special, you start the rebuild, and you draft them. Anything else is a band-aid on a severed limb.

Trades and UFAs are nice complements to existing high end talent. But when you've got little to start with, they won't get the job done.

Besides, paying Trouba or Shattenkirk 6.5+ is a risky proposition. They're very good players, but they haven't been that #1 before. I'm not sure Trouba has truly even been a top pairing guy.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

There's not much you can do in their current position because of E and Kronner. What I would realistically do:

Quincey walks - pretty easy decision.

Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul added - roll with 8 defenseman on the roster. Give these guys considerable opportunities to see what we have here. If they suck too bad, they are a hell of a lot easier to get rid of.

Go really hard at one of Shattenkirk/Vatanen/Fowler/Trouba - Vats is a much more realistic option considering the Ducks' current status and needs. Preferably Tatar+ put on the table.

UFA Yandle is incredibly intriguing. Just pretty sure he plays LD and I don't think we can commit to that kind of deal in our current position. He's the type of player that would do a lot for us, even with his defensive woes.

The chances of us winning the Cup next year are incredibly slim. Embrace the retool. Get younger, more skilled. Less experience isn't always a bad thing. You aren't going to fix this defense overnight, but at least have some sort of organizational direction.

 

[Satrebil]

When Kronwall was Dekeyser's age, I didn't want him out there against the top lines nightly. People seem to forget Kronwall was prone to pretty big brainfarts in his own zone until about his late 20s. DD still has time to grow.

I actually have questions about Dekeyser's conditioning. He seems gassed way too frequently for my liking. I don't think it should be too much for him to play 24-25 minutes hockey-wise but he seems to physically struggle too often for that right now. Needs to get stronger and work on his stamina.

People seem to forgot how long it takes to fully develop a defenseman.

 

[Frk It]

You do nothing special, you start the rebuild, and you draft them. Anything else is a band-aid on a severed limb.

Trades and UFAs are nice complements to existing high end talent. But when you've got little to start with, they won't get the job done.

Besides, paying Trouba or Shattenkirk 6.5+ is a risky proposition. They're very good players, but they haven't been that #1 before. I'm not sure Trouba has truly even been a top pairing guy.

Trouba is risky. Shattenkirk has been playing 22 minutes a night the last 4 seasons and been excellent. That would not be that risky at all, IMO.

 

[Claypool]

Realistically? Wait for Erik Karlsson to become a free agent in 2019 and offer him a max contract.

 

[sarcastro]

Ideally they would trade for one or more legit top defensemen.

Since that is unlikely, here's the best solution I see:

1. Let Q walk.
2. Get rid of Ericsson by whatever means are necessary.

These two points are critical, since you can't bring in better defensemen without making room.

3. Rotate Marchenko, XO, Sproul, and Jensen through the lineup. Play them in all situations and find out who is good at what.
4. Consider bringing up Russo and giving him a big role to see if he can handle it, or if he's just an AHL phenom.

Since the best way to fix the defense is internally and these are the best guys we have, it's time to find out if they're going to be keepers and whether any of them can be star level players.

5. Consider picking up one or two lottery tickets in free agency. Can't spend a lot, so attack the problem with volume. A guy like Jamie McBain might make sense here. 28, right shot, has pretty good fancy stats, shows some offensive ability, would be cheap. Carry 9 defensemen for a while if need be. Don't let convention get in the way of assessment.

6. Be prepared for some ugly mistakes while you're sorting out who to keep and who to dump. This will be painful, but considering we're ridding ourselves of Ericsson's ugly mistakes in this scenario, it should be a wash.

7. Kronwall to the third pair and the 2nd PP, and off the PK. Stop pretending it's 2008. It's not.

8. Change from low event to aggressive transition hockey. Guys like Green and Smith and Sproul should thrive under such a system, and low event hockey is boring.

9. Understand that you're not going to win the Cup in 2017. There is absolutely nothing you can do that would enable you to win next year. Take the opportunity to do a full audit of your organizational defense. Slough off the dead skin and move forward.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Ideally they would trade for one or more legit top defensemen.

Since that is unlikely, here's the best solution I see:

1. Let Q walk.
2. Get rid of Ericsson by whatever means are necessary.

These two points are critical, since you can't bring in better defensemen without making room.

3. Rotate Marchenko, XO, Sproul, and Jensen through the lineup. Play them in all situations and find out who is good at what.
4. Consider bringing up Russo and giving him a big role to see if he can handle it, or if he's just an AHL phenom.

Since the best way to fix the defense is internally and these are the best guys we have, it's time to find out if they're going to be keepers and whether any of them can be star level players.

5. Consider picking up one or two lottery tickets in free agency. Can't spend a lot, so attack the problem with volume. A guy like Jamie McBain might make sense here. 28, right shot, has pretty good fancy stats, shows some offensive ability, would be cheap. Carry 9 defensemen for a while if need be. Don't let convention get in the way of assessment.

6. Be prepared for some ugly mistakes while you're sorting out who to keep and who to dump. This will be painful, but considering we're ridding ourselves of Ericsson's ugly mistakes in this scenario, it should be a wash.

7. Kronwall to the third pair and the 2nd PP, and off the PK. Stop pretending it's 2008. It's not.

8. Change from low event to aggressive transition hockey. Guys like Green and Smith and Sproul should thrive under such a system, and low event hockey is boring.

9. Understand that you're not going to win the Cup in 2017. There is absolutely nothing you can do that would enable you to win next year. Take the opportunity to do a full audit of your organizational defense. Slough off the dead skin and move forward.

Great post. 5-9 are spot on. Love the bolded too.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

When Kronwall was Dekeyser's age, I didn't want him out there against the top lines nightly. People seem to forget Kronwall was prone to pretty big brainfarts in his own zone until about his late 20s. DD still has time to grow.

I actually have questions about Dekeyser's conditioning. He seems gassed way too frequently for my liking. I don't think it should be too much for him to play 24-25 minutes hockey-wise but he seems to physically struggle too often for that right now. Needs to get stronger and work on his stamina.

To be clear that wasn't a knock on Dekeyser but a compliment. I think he covers for a lot of mistakes out there, but asking him to cover for Green is a lot.

None of our defenseman look good going against top lines every night.

Green is just likely the least bad option on the right side.

I agree with your first statement. I'm not so sure about the second one.

Green was 4th on the team in even-strength TOI/GP during the regular season, behind DK, Quincey and Kronwall. In the playoffs he played the fewest even-strength minutes per game of anyone on the team at 12:58. (DK had the most with 17:12. Quincey was next at 15:36)

He had more offensive zone starts than anyone in the NHL at a whopping 70%. For comparison, Kronwall was at 53%, Ericsson 49% and DK had the fewest with 45%.

If Green is going to be a regular top pairing guy, Blashill won't be able to protect him so much. He'll have to play at least a minute or two more at even strength and start in his own zone a whole lot more than he has. Given those conditions I'm not sure he'll look so good.

 

[sarcastro]

Green excels in transition, so it makes sense to deploy him more in neutral zone starts instead of just offensive zone starts. The ozone gets so clogged up these days that you're almost better off winding up and rushing rather than trying to just cycle the puck endlessly with no quality chances being generated.

 

[JPE123]

Wish list #1- Shatty #2- Trouba

Either would be vast improvement. I expect neither

 

[burrythebiscuit*]

Realistically? Wait for Erik Karlsson to become a free agent in 2019 and offer him a max contract.

Trade for him now lol

 

[Reddwit]

You do nothing special, you start the rebuild, and you draft them. Anything else is a band-aid on a severed limb.

Trades and UFAs are nice complements to existing high end talent. But when you've got little to start with, they won't get the job done.

Besides, paying Trouba or Shattenkirk 6.5+ is a risky proposition. They're very good players, but they haven't been that #1 before. I'm not sure Trouba has truly even been a top pairing guy.

Do you?

• Nashville is competing with non-first rounders. Their top 3 are actually all non-first rounders.
• San Jose is competing with an early 2nd rounder and a trade acquisition (who is a late 1st rounder) leading the way.
• The Caps won a President's trophy led by two late first rounders - one a FA acquisition, the other a draftee at 28.
• Pittsburgh is being led by a 2nd rounder, supplemented by a couple trade acquisitions, and a non-lottery first rounder.
• Chicago - led by a 2nd rounder but supplemented by the most unfortunate lottery pick at 14 and a 4th rounder.
• The Islanders - led by a 2nd rounder and two free agent acquisitions.
• The Rangers - arguably led by THREE trade acquisitions in McDonagh (a middle first), Klein, and Yandle.
• And there's Detroit. "Led" by a late 1st and an undrafted FA.
• The Flames - led by a FA, a 4th rounder, and a trade acquisition.
• Boston - Led by 3rd rounder, an undrafted FA, and a deadline acquisition.
• Winnipeg - Led by two trade acquisitions - one that is an 8th rounder.
• Montreal - Led by a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder.
• Vancouver - Led by an undrafted FA, a 3rd rounder, and a FA acquisition.
• Colorado - Led by a trade acquisition and a 4th rounder.
• Philly - Who even leads their defense? Ghost is a non-first rounder and they have a bunch of FA/trade acquisitions back there as well.
• Dallas - FAs, trades, and a 4th rounder
• Minny - Led by a FA and a 6th rounder.
• Ottawa - Led by a mid/late 1st and a trade acquisition.
• Columbus - Led by a couple trade acquisitions.
• Carolina - Led by a 2nd rounder.

Actually, who is led by a lottery pick defenseman in this league?

• Arizona - OEL
• Blues - Pietrangelo (but interestingly get their support from TWO trade acquisitions and 1 non-first rounder)
• Tampa Bay - Hedman (but their #2 is a FA)
• Florida - Ekblad (Kulikov and Gudbranson are there but meh)
• Buffalo - Risto
• Anaheim - Lindholm, Fowler
• LA - Doughty (but a 4th rounder is their #2)
• Toronto - Rielly

Then there's NJ, led by an undrafted FA but with a lottery pick finally showing up 5 years post-draft. And Edmonton, right now "led" by a FA acquisition and a mid/late 1st, but Nurse might show up eventually.

So I don't know. Draft defenseman in order to get a good one? Yes. For sure. But rebuild and draft them? Doesn't really seem necessary when its basically a crapshoot. Interestingly, a lot of today's lottery pick defenseman seem to be playing core, but not key, roles.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Lots of speculation going on with Tyson Barrie, Vatanen, Lindholm. Kenny needs to take advantage of one of these situations imho.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Do you?

• Nashville is competing with non-first rounders. Their top 3 are actually all non-first rounders.
• San Jose is competing with an early 2nd rounder and a trade acquisition (who is a late 1st rounder) leading the way.
• The Caps won a President's trophy led by two late first rounders - one a FA acquisition, the other a draftee at 28.
• Pittsburgh is being led by a 2nd rounder, supplemented by a couple trade acquisitions, and a non-lottery first rounder.
• Chicago - led by a 2nd rounder but supplemented by the most unfortunate lottery pick at 14 and a 4th rounder.
• The Islanders - led by a 2nd rounder and two free agent acquisitions.
• The Rangers - arguably led by THREE trade acquisitions in McDonagh (a middle first), Klein, and Yandle.
• And there's Detroit. "Led" by a late 1st and an undrafted FA.
• The Flames - led by a FA, a 4th rounder, and a trade acquisition.
• Boston - Led by 3rd rounder, an undrafted FA, and a deadline acquisition.
• Winnipeg - Led by two trade acquisitions - one that is an 8th rounder.
• Montreal - Led by a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder.
• Vancouver - Led by an undrafted FA, a 3rd rounder, and a FA acquisition.
• Colorado - Led by a trade acquisition and a 4th rounder.
• Philly - Who even leads their defense? Ghost is a non-first rounder and they have a bunch of FA/trade acquisitions back there as well.
• Dallas - FAs, trades, and a 4th rounder
• Minny - Led by a FA and a 6th rounder.
• Ottawa - Led by a mid/late 1st and a trade acquisition.
• Columbus - Led by a couple trade acquisitions.
• Carolina - Led by a 2nd rounder.

Actually, who is led by a lottery pick defenseman in this league?

• Arizona - OEL
• Blues - Pietrangelo (but interestingly get their support from TWO trade acquisitions and 1 non-first rounder)
• Tampa Bay - Hedman (but their #2 is a FA)
• Florida - Ekblad (Kulikov and Gudbranson are there but meh)
• Buffalo - Risto
• Anaheim - Lindholm, Fowler
• LA - Doughty (but a 4th rounder is their #2)
• Toronto - Rielly

Then there's NJ, led by an undrafted FA but with a lottery pick finally showing up 5 years post-draft. And Edmonton, right now "led" by a FA acquisition and a mid/late 1st, but Nurse might show up eventually.

So I don't know. Draft defenseman in order to get a good one? Yes. For sure. But rebuild and draft them? Doesn't really seem necessary when its basically a crapshoot. Interestingly, a lot of today's lottery pick defenseman seem to be playing core, but not key, roles.

I think the belief a team can tank, get lottery picks and draft elite franchise level dmen is way over sold

2 guys out of the last 25 lottery picks could be considered as elite #1 dmen and really only one is, Ekblad.

and this draft, none of the potential top 5 picks will likely include a dman unless the oilers reach at #4 and they're not a good example to follow and will only be doing so, if they do, because they would have no other choice

you do not typically get franchise or even elite #1 dmen in the first five picks, you're better off picking in the mid teens, adding as many draft picks as you can throughout the draft as often as you can and doing your homework as a scouting dept

 

[PuckDynasty]

I wouldn't mind adding Yandle. He isn't great defensively, but he'd be one of our top point scorers and he'd add something to the PP. Still under 30, but I think the price might be too high. Getting rid of Ericsson and limiting Kronwall's time would be addition by subtraction.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

So word is Tyson Barrie is available.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

So word is Tyson Barrie is available.

add him to the list of "potential" guys who could or will be available

its a solid list for sure, more than i can think of at anytime in recent years

 

[Vatican Roulette]

add him to the list of "potential" guys who could or will be available

its a solid list for sure, more than i can think of at anytime in recent years

Agreed. Some speculation in the thread on the trade board that Faulk might also be available.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Agreed. Some speculation in the thread on the trade board that Faulk might also be available.

It seems like the only people I ever see suggesting that are Edmonton fans and journalists.

 

[Ezekial]

Do you?

• Nashville is competing with non-first rounders. Their top 3 are actually all non-first rounders.
• San Jose is competing with an early 2nd rounder and a trade acquisition (who is a late 1st rounder) leading the way.
• The Caps won a President's trophy led by two late first rounders - one a FA acquisition, the other a draftee at 28.
• Pittsburgh is being led by a 2nd rounder, supplemented by a couple trade acquisitions, and a non-lottery first rounder.
• Chicago - led by a 2nd rounder but supplemented by the most unfortunate lottery pick at 14 and a 4th rounder.
• The Islanders - led by a 2nd rounder and two free agent acquisitions.
• The Rangers - arguably led by THREE trade acquisitions in McDonagh (a middle first), Klein, and Yandle.
• And there's Detroit. "Led" by a late 1st and an undrafted FA.
• The Flames - led by a FA, a 4th rounder, and a trade acquisition.
• Boston - Led by 3rd rounder, an undrafted FA, and a deadline acquisition.
• Winnipeg - Led by two trade acquisitions - one that is an 8th rounder.
• Montreal - Led by a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder.
• Vancouver - Led by an undrafted FA, a 3rd rounder, and a FA acquisition.
• Colorado - Led by a trade acquisition and a 4th rounder.
• Philly - Who even leads their defense? Ghost is a non-first rounder and they have a bunch of FA/trade acquisitions back there as well.
• Dallas - FAs, trades, and a 4th rounder
• Minny - Led by a FA and a 6th rounder.
• Ottawa - Led by a mid/late 1st and a trade acquisition.
• Columbus - Led by a couple trade acquisitions.
• Carolina - Led by a 2nd rounder.

Actually, who is led by a lottery pick defenseman in this league?

• Arizona - OEL
• Blues - Pietrangelo (but interestingly get their support from TWO trade acquisitions and 1 non-first rounder)
• Tampa Bay - Hedman (but their #2 is a FA)
• Florida - Ekblad (Kulikov and Gudbranson are there but meh)
• Buffalo - Risto
• Anaheim - Lindholm, Fowler
• LA - Doughty (but a 4th rounder is their #2)
• Toronto - Rielly

Then there's NJ, led by an undrafted FA but with a lottery pick finally showing up 5 years post-draft. And Edmonton, right now "led" by a FA acquisition and a mid/late 1st, but Nurse might show up eventually.

So I don't know. Draft defenseman in order to get a good one? Yes. For sure. But rebuild and draft them? Doesn't really seem necessary when its basically a crapshoot. Interestingly, a lot of today's lottery pick defenseman seem to be playing core, but not key, roles.

Good work on this, such a myth that you have to get your 1D in the top 10. Granted you have to actually draft a good defenseman though, unlike the wings recently.



Realistically, unless Ericsson is bought out or retires I'd imagine were stuck with him -unless there's like 50% retention. Realistically to fix the defense, step one is to let Quincey walk . Step 2 is acquire a puck moving defenseman through fa or trade, probably have to get another or one of Marchy(lesser extent)/XO/Russo/Sproul/Jensen goes insane this summer and establishes themself as a legitimate top 4. Hicketts and Villi could grow a couple inches too. Acquiring 2 would mean another current roster Dman would need to be moved/retire.

It's possible, but our management has really painted themselves in a corner at the blue line.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

What do you mean "fix"? If fix means the Wings will have a good defense, there is no way to fix it in one off season. It's going to take multiple years to fix this defense.

Wings need to find a #1, #2 and #3 defenseman in order to fix it.

Wings need to only draft defenseman for the next couple of years. Their prospect pool along the blue line is absolutely atrocious, and their current starters are almost all abysmal.

 

[Ezekial]

What do you mean "fix"? If fix means the Wings will have a good defense, there is no way to fix it in one off season. It's going to take multiple years to fix this defense.

Wings need to find a #1, #2 and #3 defenseman in order to fix it.

Wings need to only draft defenseman for the next couple of years. Their prospect pool along the blue line is absolutely atrocious, and their current starters are almost all abysmal.

Even adding one defenseman who can move the puck at an efficient rate would immensely help this team. The corps as a whole is pretty solid defensively, but limiting shots isn't as effective when it comes at the expense of the inability to clear the zone leading to high quality scoring opportunities for the opponent.

 

[sully6one]

Why are people high on Sproul still? He can't play defense. You guys want these guys up then when they get here you call for their heads. Since we know he sucks let's keep him down or lose him to waivers.

 

[DRW204]

How good is Sproul actually? I have never watched a GRG game, i thought he played well against STL in his only game in the NHL a couple years back. Reading up he had a solid junior career