Team Finland WC 2023

FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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Finland controlled every game like always, but d-men were way too slow and fast team like Canada will use it brutally for their advantage. What can you do if we can't score? Is it really Jalonen's fault?
One thing we can blame on Jalonen is not making adjustments to the lineup when it was evident everything didn't click. It doesn't of course mean that it's some miracle cure to the scoring struggles, but it's no excuse for not even trying something different.

Now, we know why he stubbornly stuck with his chosen lines - because he trusted the system. It provides a rational explanation, but doesn't absolve him of the mistake.

Now, I don't wanna say that there's some obvious thing he should have done. It's far too easy to succumb to the train of thought that if he'd done X instead of Y, everything would have been different and we would now be looking forward to the semi. But it still a mistake to not even try X when Y isn't working.

Another thing Jalonen could have adjusted but never did was powerplay. Our 1st unit was a literal one-trick pony: get the puck to Hartikainen in the middle of the diamond for one-timer. When the opponent made sure that option's not on the table, all our guys could do was move the puck around. It was, in fact, truly bizarre that Jalonen stuck to having five lefties in that unit - was it really that difficult to have at least one rightie? Especially since that should not have been due to the lack of options with Kakko, Kapanen and Armia in the lineup.
 
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FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
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Tapola's route to NT head coach would have to come via being assistant coach of NT first or being U20 tournament head coach and prove himself, but I doubt that the latter will ever happen.

Toni Söderholm is another name, but his merits probably aren't enough. He'd have to be assistant coach of Finland first and we'd have to success while he would be in the staff.

Another interesting name could be Tommi Niemelä. He did just coach an underdog team to Liiga finals and he has that junior gold medal as a head coach, so he has proven something in a tournament and with a club team. He could be some kind of wild card option in the mix of potential head coaches. Maybe that's still in the future though. Pennanen has the same merits and better though. He should be the one.
Re: Tapola. This is why I said that international hockey is a different world from club team hockey - there's no guarantee that Tapola could translate his successes in Tappara to similar success with the Lions. But due to his accomplishments alone he must still be mentioned.

The problem is that we have a lot of promising coaches who look like they could be a good fit for the crown jewel of Finnish hockey... about 5-10 years from now. (Söderholm, Jokinen, Niemelä, Ahokas) But the list of obvious names to succeed Jalonen immediately seems rather thin.

Right now, Pennanen comes across as the frontrunner - but he shouldn't be the only fitting name.
 
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SantosHalper

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Mar 21, 2012
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National team core 2023-24(depth chart)

Offensive line candidates:
Markus Granlund - Miro Aaltonen - Jere Innala
Arttu Ruotsalainen - Antti Suomela - Markus Nurmi
Aleksi Saarela - Kalle Kossila - Lauri Pajuniemi
Anton Levtchi - Robert Leino - Waltteri Merelä

Sampo Ranta - Aapeli Räsänen - Jerry Turkulainen
Kristian Vesalainen - Aarne Talvitie - Joose Antonen
Patrik Puistola - Joonas Nättinen - Joona Ikonen
Julius Nättinen - Eemeli Suomi - Jonne Tammela

Kristian Tanus- Eetu Koivistoinen - Petteri Puhakka
Petrus Palmu - Oula Palve - Ville Meskanen
Linus Nyman - Matias Mäntykivi - Kasper Simontaival
Valtteri Ojantakanen

Shutdown line candidates
Ahti Oksanen - Juhani Tyrväinen - Iiro Pakarinen
Eetu Liukas - Julius Mattila - Janne Kuokkanen
Miikka Salomäki - Juha Jääskä - Tommi Tikka
Markus Nenonen - Oliver Kapanen - Eetu Tuulola
Kasper Björkqvist - Jaakko Rissanen - Niko Huuhtanen
Miska Siikonen - Otto Somppi - Heikki Liedes
Olli Nikupeteri - Otto Rauhala

Otto Leskinen - Vili Saarijärvi
Mikael Seppälä - Julius Honka
Sami Niku - Axel Rindell
Juuso Riikola - Elmeri Eronen
Tarmo Reunanen - Arttu Pelli
Jarkko Parikka - Juuso Vainio
Petteri Nikkilä - Valtteri Pulli
Lasse Lappalainen - Nuutti Viitasalo
Kalle Maalahti - Kasper Puutio
Teemu Kivihalme - Matias Rajaniemi
Kristian Näkyvä - X
Toni Utunen - X

Christian Heljanko
Emil Larmi
Roope Taponen
Lassi Lehtinen
Niklas Westerholm
Juha Jatkola
Filip Lindberg
Janne Juvonen
Eetu Laurikainen
Jasper Patrikainen

Some new, some old, some new old. Best of that EHT core becomes next WHC team + possible NHL players. No double or triple champions.
 
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mattihp

Registered User
Aug 2, 2004
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Uppsala, Sweden
Ohtamaa and Pokka should retire from the national team, otherwise they will continue to be picked as a thank you for their service. Ohtamaa is smart enough on the ice, but his turning has gone to crap. Pokka can't make up for his decision making with his skills. Lehtonen's offensive game suffered from having to pick up after Ohtamaa, which is new.

New guys of roughly the same level should get the chance.

Friman can still be brought onto the team, but mainly as forward and used on D when there are injuries. His big advantage is that versatility, he can swap positions in a pinch.

Koivisto and Seppälä are still alright. Matinpalo looks promising.
 
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ChicagoBullsFan

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Finland
Is Finnish hockey association ( aka THE liitto ) cocky and arrogant as article says?
What should change and happen in liitto and how to get better?
 
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SantosHalper

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New guys of roughly the same level should get the chance.

Friman can still be brought onto the team, but mainly as forward and used on D when there are injuries. His big advantage is that versatility, he can swap positions in a pinch.

Koivisto and Seppälä are still alright. Matinpalo looks promising.
If Friman plays as a forward in national team, the crisis in finnish hockey bigger than we thought. Major red flag, when was the last time Friman even played as a forward? Defense was very weak in this tournament, only european league d-man i would bring back is Seppälä. Matinpalo too but he is going to North America.

Defense needs a massive rebuild, there is young new players available and bit more experienced with only few NT games under their belts. Just now another young gun Oskari Laaksonen signed with Luleå.

An example how the defense should look next year, without NHL players. Depends how the season goes but:
Otto Leskinen - Oskari Laaksonen
Mikael Seppälä - Vili Saarijärvi
Sami Niku - Juuso Vainio
Juuso Riikola - Valtteri Pulli

Ohtamaa out, Pokka out, Lehtonen out, Friman out, Koivisto out, Lindbohm out, Kemiläinen out, Vatanen out, Sund out, Kaski out. It's time for a new core.
 
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SantosHalper

Get off my lawn
Mar 21, 2012
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Is Finnish hockey association ( aka THE liitto ) cocky and arrogant as article says?
What should change and happen in liitto and how to get better?
Cocky, arrogant AND greedy.

If they have any brain, this season should open their eyes. U17 or Hlinka? bronze was the only medal we won. This could be a start of a drought, if they ain't making changes to junior coaching. We suck at developing defensemen and we are losing in skating to other countrys. And in 1-on-1 board battles is were Finland is very far behind to other countrys according to Ismo Lehkonen.

And he's not wrong, it is showing in junior level. U20 team had many Liiga players but that men's league experience didn't show on ice one bit. Sweden's U18 NT also had several players who had at least some men's league experience and it did show on ice, for a 3rd year straight Sweden's U18 was straight up bullies. Nasty and hard team to play against. They are big and they can skate.

In a long run weak junior coaching is going to effect the men's national team as well. Where Czechia is now, is were Finland is heading.
 

RageQuit77

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
5,200
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Finland, Kotka
Everything went almost exactly as expected.

My gut feeling was that strong I ended watching matches after 4 games as watching inevitable failure is not that inspiring.

Team Finland was neither capable of, nor deserving to go any deeper in the tournament bracket.

Next year then, maybe.
 

Jukurit

Registered User
May 16, 2022
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Like I said after U18 loss to Slovakia, Finnish hockey is not doing good right now. Finnish leagues are weak and prospect development is bad. Most Finnish prospects suck at skating which is very important for NHL game. Success in Skoda's is a facade. A lof of current success is tied to Jalonen. What happens when he retires or stops being a winning coach?
 

Razamanaz

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
478
148
Northern Hemisphere.
Even a man with only one function wood-eye and bench-coach like me could easy see that Finland wouldn't go far with the line-ups that stuburn (quite like a ol' baby, sorry!) Jalonen put up this time Worldchampionchips around:
And that, game and game again.

And that from the start.

From time to time Finland even played well; after all Finland are a pure top hockeynation in the world. Remember.

Coaches are there for coach (and change!) a team when the teamwork doesn't work; oder was?!

Jalonen only let it bleed this time around and almost run it to it bitter, expected, end; before he even made some moves.

But still: who am I sohvaperunat even to blame a man who actually are:
King Jalonen!

1685128309056.png
 

Razamanaz

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
478
148
Northern Hemisphere.
Complete disaster, Finland had more than enough chances to score. Jalonen can't put the puck to the net though. But it's clear that Finland was scouted very well, every team had all of their d-men and centre just stacked in front of their net, because that's where Finns score.

Also Finnish fans were terrible, we've won too much for the fans to care like they used to. We could see that already last year after gold medals, there wasn't party mode like we used to have. This is a good wakeup call.

Our defence was too slow, way too slow. Pokka and Ohtamaa - BYE. Never again on this level.
That's why I dig - West Ham United.
That is.
There are fans and then there are real fans. Rememeber.
Since 1980 West Ham United and their FA-Cup win over Arsenal as a second tier team back then.

That's the way it should for fandom to start. Me thinx.
And that with cars all over East End London painted with claret 'n' blue when the way - West Ham United - won earlier 70's, with almost only black'n'white TV with first Tipsextra, and later on to top with that 80's FA-Cup Arsenal win:

"Rockin' Brooking" with the true rock'n'roll West Ham hero and with red and white coffins(!) carried by West Hams fans with the crossed hammers on an the letters written on, never forgotten:

"A.F.C Died 1980" outside Wembley.

West Ham fans all over the world anyway even nowadays - believe it or not.

Me and my son even followed West Ham United to - Andorra - once, believe it or not!

But still Finland: we've followed a whole lotta live a lot more. A whole lotta lot!

In hockey, football and rock'n'roll.

 
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Mestaruus

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
4,836
1,735
only european league d-man i would bring back is Seppälä. Matinpalo too but he is going to North America.

Defense needs a massive rebuild, there is young new players available and bit more experienced with only few NT games under their belts. Just now another young gun Oskari Laaksonen signed with Luleå.

An example how the defense should look next year, without NHL players. Depends how the season goes but:
Otto Leskinen - Oskari Laaksonen
Mikael Seppälä - Vili Saarijärvi
Sami Niku - Juuso Vainio
Juuso Riikola - Valtteri Pulli

Ohtamaa out, Pokka out, Lehtonen out, Friman out, Koivisto out, Lindbohm out, Kemiläinen out, Vatanen out, Sund out, Kaski out. It's time for a new core.

Seppälä should be brought back indeed. He should've maybe been the one getting one of the 3 MVP trophies of Finnish team this tournament instead of Manninen. Either Seppälä or Lehtonen should've had that honor.

Which veterans to welcome back, hmm. Of course we won't ditch all of the core of this year's team but if we can cut about 50%. That would be great. Some veterans that weren't in this year's team whom I'd like to have a shot at the camp next year are (doesn't mean that they would make it in the final team) Savinainen, Vatanen, Filppula (if he even continues one more year in Switzerland) and Säteri. Younger good players should have priority over them, but I think that some of those old veteran names deserve a shot still.

From this year's team I think that Björninen as a 4th line center is still a player we should keep. He isn't too old either. Our PK was great this tournament and he was a contributer for that. Pesonen has been a good contributor to Jalonen's teams that had success, but I'd think about hard on this one as I don't want to see him in PP units. It's hard to find a role for him as he doesn't do PK either. He will be on the camp next year unless he declines the invitation himself. I doubt that many of Jalonen's old European core would decline the tournament invitation that is Jalonen's last (for now).

Manninen + Hartikainen may look sick next spring when they've had a season together in Switzerland. I think that we didn't get 100% of Manninen this year with his ackward season in the AHL. It must've been mentally hard for him, which may have affected him. Hopefully we have a good enough team so that this duo isn't the base of our #1 PP unit. I'd like to see them in our PP2 unit though. I'm not shocked if Hartikainen declines the invitation, but it is Jalonen's last tournament so maybe he wants to be there for that reason.

I'd love to see some of Pärssinen, Saarijärvi, Maccelli and Välimäki in the team. Columbus will still be horrible next season so once again there's the chance of getting Laine lol... No more home tournament but I think that he genuinely wanted to join the tournament these last 2 seasons, so maybe he comes for Jalonen's last tournament.
 

ChicagoBullsFan

Registered User
Jun 6, 2015
6,135
1,954
Finland
Cocky, arrogant AND greedy.

If they have any brain, this season should open their eyes. U17 or Hlinka? bronze was the only medal we won. This could be a start of a drought, if they ain't making changes to junior coaching. We suck at developing defensemen and we are losing in skating to other countrys. And in 1-on-1 board battles is were Finland is very far behind to other countrys according to Ismo Lehkonen.

And he's not wrong, it is showing in junior level. U20 team had many Liiga players but that men's league experience didn't show on ice one bit. Sweden's U18 NT also had several players who had at least some men's league experience and it did show on ice, for a 3rd year straight Sweden's U18 was straight up bullies. Nasty and hard team to play against. They are big and they can skate.

In a long run weak junior coaching is going to effect the men's national team as well. Where Czechia is now, is were Finland is heading.
I doubt seriously Harri Nummela's judgement and decision making.
That bank business management clown has showed what his ''leadership'' is and it is total ZERO.

Only what Nummela cares is that money comes in every freaking hole and window.
And that everyone has fun, kool-aid tastes very good with cuban cigar.

Sami Kauhanen is another clown who's totally wrong place in his current position.
How many assses Kauhanen had to lick to get hired Liitto's CEO?

These two clowns ( Nummela and Kauhanen )
and all their country-club sauna friends should f*** off in Finnish hockey before it is too late.
It absolutely scares what direction Finnish hockey will start go when Jukka Jalonen retires.

Ismo Lehkonen is a man who has balls to say how the thing are in Finnish hockey.
But some reason clowns named Harri Nummela, Sami Kauhanen and Pirkka Anttila
do not listen him but when it is the time to start listen what Ismo Lehkonen has to say.
In my opinion it is right here and right now.
 
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ChicagoBullsFan

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Jun 6, 2015
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Finland
Like I said after U18 loss to Slovakia, Finnish hockey is not doing good right now. Finnish leagues are weak and prospect development is bad. Most Finnish prospects suck at skating which is very important for NHL game. Success in Skoda's is a facade. A lof of current success is tied to Jalonen. What happens when he retires or stops being a winning coach?
I agree with this 15000%
If any Finnish prospects gets drafted to CHL import draft this summer
they all better consider very seriously to go CHL because that's superior
developement league compared to SM liiga and Finnish junior leagues
if prospect has NHL dream and goal is to play 100+ NHL games.
 

Razamanaz

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
478
148
Northern Hemisphere.
I agree with this 15000%
If any Finnish prospects gets drafted to CHL import draft this summer
they all better consider very seriously to go CHL because that's superior
developement league compared to SM liiga and Finnish junior leagues
if prospect has NHL dream and goal is to play 100+ NHL games.
Shake for me ... girl. But I don't want to be your backdoor man (as Led Zeppelin would 'ave it!).

No way Finland headin' out to the (lost) highway in hockey. No, no, no way. Quite the opposite in fact.

Bam, bam, bam coz 13 or more Finland players that still did play in the Stanley Cup semifinals get's me rather high. On hope for Finland hockey, that is.
And nuthin' else matters.

 

ChicagoBullsFan

Registered User
Jun 6, 2015
6,135
1,954
Finland
Agree with these 25000%
Finnish hockey is screwed up.
 
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Marioesque

Registered User
Oct 7, 2021
2,178
2,440
Stubbornly playing Larmi was a really weird obsession, considering what the backup did just last year. And considering how awful Larmis positioning was in all games.

Anttila was another big mistake. He kept giving up possession every shift, even the 1-0 goal that decided the game was from his loss.
 
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FiLe

Mr. Know-It-Nothing
Oct 9, 2009
6,928
1,297
Stubbornly playing Larmi was a really weird obsession, considering what the backup did just last year.
Olkinuora was a sub-90 goalie in both his club teams this year, and his SV% in the two games he got in the tournament was .846. Perhaps this explains why Jalonen stuck with Larmi.

On the other hand, there was also a third goalie with the team. In an environment where both names in the playing tandem left something to be desired, the real wonder is why Heljanko didn't get a proper look.
 

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