Confirmed with Link: [TBL/OTT] Braydon Coburn, Cedric Paquette, & 2nd rd pick ('22) for Marian Gaborik & Anders Nilsson

[Ryan52]

what’s bad about this is we are going to have to trade Killorn and johnson next offseason and what asset will we need to give up to move johnson?

right now we are -3.5 million in cap space with 16 guys signed next year . So should we have done this deal or just paid yzerman to take johnson this year ?

i think they are better off banking on him having a good year and shaving off one year of the contract so hopefully the price to shed him is cheaper

 

[Crunchrulz]

I remember scratching my head about that deal at the time, especially the term and NTC. Really turned into a costly deal.

Food for thought. We might very well be sitting here shaking our heads at the Coburn deal, BUT we are sitting here shaking our heads as fans of the Stanley Cup Champion Lightning who offered that deal. There are a couple of dozen or so other organizations whose fans wish they were in the same dilemma.

 

[Sky04]

Johnson would've been moved at any cost if Kucherov didn't get injured. JBB said he was not trading an RFA which means the only alternative was shipping out 2 big contracts. Regardless only losing Coburn and Paquette is a win this year, Kucherov will be back for the playoffs even if he's not 100% we still have the best roster in the league.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Agree, but the conspiracy theories don’t bother me.

Seriously.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Johnson would've been moved at any cost if Kucherov didn't get injured. JBB said he was not trading an RFA which means the only alternative was shipping out 2 big contracts. Regardless only losing Coburn and Paquette is a win this year, Kucherov will be back for the playoffs even if he's not 100% we still have the best roster in the league.

We were never going to give up a first, a second and a prospect to get rid of TJ.

 

[Sky04]

We were never going to give up a first, a second and a prospect to get rid of TJ.

JBB said he wasn't trading Cirelli so what's your magic solution? Also, you don't even know if that was the price. Could've just a 1st at most for all we know, don't get why you think they were going to trade Cirelli when they tried to move Johnson all off-season.

 

[PaulGG]

Would have liked to keep Ceddy. We have the cup and if fortunate we will be right back in the hunt come playoffs. Hopefully, Stammer is ready to lead us.

 

[SRQKiter]

So Johnson is likely staying for the season?

He should be the most motivated man on the roster. From fan favorite to $5M per anchor who passed through waivers without a nibble. Can't sit well with him.

 

[SRQKiter]

I liked Cobie a lot - gotta think his family will stay in Tampa as the kids are in school here...

With the border situation and the NHL schedule as it is that might mean he wouldn't see them for 6 months. I think family will have to follow given the circumstances.

 

[SRQKiter]

All good, I’m just trying to fully comprehend the return to Ottawa. I guess we assume the actual cash is atleast a wash and it cost a 2nd rounder to get 3.4 Million of cap space. Oh, and one of the offloads is a very legit 4C who we will miss. But it is fair to assume Ceddy is a tad overpaid in this crazy market.

Kinda scary to think about how much it would have cost to be cap compliant if Kuch does not go LTIR.

It's not just "kinda scary", it's downright frightening. Which is why the people still out there saying "how can you say the Kucherov injury was convenient, he's one of the 5 best players in the league?". Yup, he is, and as long as the injury is as reported and is not career threatening or anything like that then it has still been godsend to this teams ability to stay competitive for years to come. There would have had to have been a fire sale in a down market otherwise. And it might even be good for Stammer, he'll be not just the C, but the top dog again for awhile. Show he can still carry the team and get full his mojo back.

 

[Rschmitz]

There's $80m in fresh cap space coming on line next season, much easier market to sell into.

My wild ass prediction: To get Seattle to take McDonagh, we give them Killorn for free. That's enough to cover Kuch's contract and two cheap replacements.

Nice then if we can move TJ, but not critical.

Then it's a question of what we do with Goodrow and Coleman's cap space. Might be enough to keep one of them.

Probably wouldn't need to sweeten the deal for them to take McD, provided he continues to look like a #1 next season.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

JBB said he wasn't trading Cirelli so what's your magic solution? Also, you don't even know if that was the price. Could've just a 1st at most for all we know, don't get why you think they were going to trade Cirelli when they tried to move Johnson all off-season.

I'm saying they would've moved Cirelli before giving up a 1st, a 2nd and a prospect to move TJ just to keep Cirelli.

You're the guy who said that absurd trade made sense for Tampa. It didn't, and it doesn't.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Probably wouldn't need to sweeten the deal for them to take McD, provided he continues to look like a #1 next season.

Yeah, it's hard to say. But Seattle will also know they're in a position of strength, helping us out by taking a tough contract off our hands in the person of McDonagh. That is, they could plausibly threaten to take Cernak/Foote (if we protect 7F 3D) or Palat (if we protect 8 skaters) if we don't offer them something to take McD.

None of those are critical losses, but they do hurt and they don't yield the cap relief that losing McDonagh does. I can't say JBB will agree with me, but I think having them take McDonagh is our best option both short and long-term, and worth a little sweetener.

 

[Todd1a]

Yeah, it's hard to say. But Seattle will also know they're in a position of strength, helping us out by taking a tough contract off our hands in the person of McDonagh. That is, they could plausibly threaten to take Cernak/Foote (if we protect 7F 3D) or Palat (if we protect 8 skaters) if we don't offer them something to take McD.

None of those are critical losses, but they do hurt and they don't yield the cap relief that losing McDonagh does. I can't say JBB will agree with me, but I think having them take McDonagh is our best option both short and long-term, and worth a little sweetener.

heard a rumor because kucherov is on long term injured reserve that he doesn’t need to be protected for the expansion draft ! So Seattle can’t pick kucherov ? And doesn’t require us to protect him ?

 

[Sky04]

I'm saying they would've moved Cirelli before giving up a 1st, a 2nd and a prospect to move TJ just to keep Cirelli.

You're the guy who said that absurd trade made sense for Tampa. It didn't, and it doesn't.

Wrong, since you love digging up old post you can go find it yourself.

It wasn't just Cirelli, it was Cirelli+Cernak+whoever else they'd have to move to fit under the cap if you chose not to move Johnson since dealing Killorn (and Cirelli) wouldn't be enough. A 1st, a 2nd and a C rated prospect would've been worth retaining two 23 year olds who play 20mins a night here instead 2 guys over 30 but if you prefer Johnson over Cirelli and Cernak that's cool too.

 

[Sky04]

heard a rumor because kucherov is on long term injured reserve that he doesn’t need to be protected for the expansion draft ! So Seattle can’t pick kucherov ? And doesn’t require us to protect him ?

Kucherov will be back well before the draft... You can only get exception in special cases where it's likely career ending or the player has missed significant time in the league. There's not player worth protecting that costs us a shot at the cup in a high contention year just to find a loophole around something that's not going to hurt us that bad anyways.

 

[Rschmitz]

heard a rumor because kucherov is on long term injured reserve that he doesn’t need to be protected for the expansion draft ! So Seattle can’t pick kucherov ? And doesn’t require us to protect him ?

Lots of hurdles for the rule to be in effect, most notably that the player will have needed to miss the previous 60 NHL games. Because the season is only 56 games long, that's a DOA idea before factoring in some of the other grey area issues to get that to fly.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, it's hard to say. But Seattle will also know they're in a position of strength, helping us out by taking a tough contract off our hands in the person of McDonagh. That is, they could plausibly threaten to take Cernak/Foote (if we protect 7F 3D) or Palat (if we protect 8 skaters) if we don't offer them something to take McD.

None of those are critical losses, but they do hurt and they don't yield the cap relief that losing McDonagh does. I can't say JBB will agree with me, but I think having them take McDonagh is our best option both short and long-term, and worth a little sweetener.

I'd protect 8 skaters. Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Point, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, and Foote . Losing Palat is fine

TJ, Killorn and Palat all are without full NTC's after this year, we can find space in the short term.

The biggest question is how management feels about McD, because if they think his tread is wearing thin he's the only long term contract not part of the "core" whom they won't be able to jettison on a whim if the need arises. If that is how they feel, use assets and dump him now. I think we all know that 6 more years is a tough ask for someone with RD's playstyle, and you're looking at Coburn-esque production from him the last 2 years of that contract.

How overpaid will he be at 6.75 million in 2024 when he's no longer inside the top 4? Is it worth it in the short term to have a shut down #1 defender at 6.75?

 

[God King Fudge]

I don't think there's any way you can get rid of McD right now. D would be in pretty rough shape without him. You can get by with some combo of Rutta/Schenn/Foote as 5/6 as long as you have Hedman/McD anchoring the top 4. You lose McD, you're asking one of those guys to play likely above their ability unless Foote goes crazy

 

[BoltzManConstant]

I'd protect 8 skaters. Kucherov, Stamkos, Cirelli, Point, Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, and Foote . Losing Palat is fine

TJ, Killorn and Palat all are without full NTC's after this year, we can find space in the short term.

The biggest question is how management feels about McD, because if they think his tread is wearing thin he's the only long term contract not part of the "core" whom they won't be able to jettison on a whim if the need arises. If that is how they feel, use assets and dump him now. I think we all know that 6 more years is a tough ask for someone with RD's playstyle, and you're looking at Coburn-esque production from him the last 2 years of that contract.

How overpaid will he be at 6.75 million in 2024 when he's no longer inside the top 4? Is it worth it in the short term to have a shut down #1 defender at 6.75?

I agree.

Palat's not a huge loss but he's valuable.

But that's not the key consideration. When next season comes around, McD will be a 32-year-old who's got a cap hit of $6.75m for the year and committed to a total of $33.75m over 5 years. Palat will be a 30-year-old with $5.3m just owed.

We'll need the extra $1.4m next year, and we'll need the McD savings after that, with Point due in '22 and Serg/Cernak/Cirelli the year after. McDonagh's got a NTC, which doesn't protect against expansion draft exposure, so it's really our best shot to move him.

I'm not too moved by idea we can't do without McDonagh. Cernak's been eating big minutes since his rookie season, and he'll be passing 200 games next year. Serg will be at 300 games. Would be great to round out our top 4 with McD, but he's not critical. We're better with him than without him, of course -- but there are better ways to deploy his $6.75m.

JBB might see it differently, of course. And he's the one with much more intel than any of us.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Wrong, since you love digging up old post you can go find it yourself.

It wasn't just Cirelli, it was Cirelli+Cernak+whoever else they'd have to move to fit under the cap if you chose not to move Johnson since dealing Killorn (and Cirelli) wouldn't be enough. A 1st, a 2nd and a C rated prospect would've been worth retaining two 23 year olds who play 20mins a night here instead 2 guys over 30 but if you prefer Johnson over Cirelli and Cernak that's cool too.

As I explained at the time, we weren't going to get rid of Cirelli and Cernak. We'd have signed Serg and Cernak to shorter/cheaper deals and get rid of Paquette -- like we did.

The alternative option I assumed was on the table was LTIR'ing Stamkos. Turns out it was LTIR Kuch. That's why Brisebois gave the big 3 RFA's the cap hit that he did, rather than squeeze them down as far as they'd go on 1-year bridges and/or trade Cirelli.

 

[The Gongshow]

I don't think there's any way you can get rid of McD right now. D would be in pretty rough shape without him. You can get by with some combo of Rutta/Schenn/Foote as 5/6 as long as you have Hedman/McD anchoring the top 4. You lose McD, you're asking one of those guys to play likely above their ability unless Foote goes crazy

The contract might get rough in another 3 years but right now he's been our best shutdown defenseman and has given the added benefit of letting Hedman "rest up" for the playoffs via minute management. This allows us to have Heddy play over 40 minutes in 5OT

I think he's still very valuable and part of the B Tier core for now. Hopefully when he starts to slow down the Cap will be going back up and it will be easier to move him with less years on the contract.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

AMAZING deal by Brisbois. GM of da year. Clears 3.3M in CAP for a late 2nd rounder (which is about right as a 6.3M CAP hit/year clears 1 mid round 1st rounder). Then unloads only a 7thg dman and a 4th line forward (both replaceable cheaper) to clear that space so it has zero impact on current years team. And on top signs one of best 2nd line 2 way centres Cirelli at tax adjusted Florida tax rate for 4.8M for detroit's 5.5M deal. And lastly he saves his owner real money in this fiscal year. Both Gabby and Nils are 7.5M CAP LTIR with only 5.5M real salary at 20% insured cash out or 1.1M out of owners pocket (but not really due to deferred and escrow). Combined Ottawa took on 3.3M in real salary on CAP (before deferral and escrow). Bottom line Brisbois saved owner 2.2M in real cash flow. Now that is genius. It deserves GM of year for that deal.

Achieved CAP compliance. Signed dominate core group guys and even da next core coming up at great rates. Team saved real cash $$$ in 2020. Genius GMing.

Ottawa GM got a better team (although not sure why they wanted to improve team in 2020 kinda defeats purpose in drafting) except owner wants to challenge for playoffs in 2020.

 

[Shoresy Snipes]

I'd think JBB would trade away anyone of value we can't protect from Seattle, for at least some kind of asset. Hence another reason the Drouin for Serg trade was sooo damn good... Drouin would have needed protection, Serg was too young and didn't, so we could use it elsewhere.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I don't think there's any way you can get rid of McD right now. D would be in pretty rough shape without him. You can get by with some combo of Rutta/Schenn/Foote as 5/6 as long as you have Hedman/McD anchoring the top 4. You lose McD, you're asking one of those guys to play likely above their ability unless Foote goes crazy

I completely disagree with you.
Sergachev after this year will be more than ready

in 2021 2022 A left side of

Hedman
Sergachev

Yeah were in trouble......