Confirmed Trade: [TBL/NJD] Devils trade Blake Coleman to Lightning for Nolan Foote, VAN 2020 1st

[LTIR Trickery]

It's not like Kreider was used consistently on the NYR's matchup line throughout all of their deep playoff runs or anything. Hell Kreider even has some Selke votes! Coleman has been in the league only 3 seasons and never eclipsed 40 points. Kreider with multiple 50 point seasons and 5 20 goal seasons(nearly 30 goals twice).

I'm really not sure where this narrative that Coleman is a better offensive player and much better defensive player has come from.

Well, his stats. Defensively, he is better, he is a more consistent player than Kreider while getting less opportunity than him. Kreider has a bigger body of work (and pretty rough playoff stats minus one year) at a much higher cost and less term.

 

[waterboy65]

Bolts have gone down the Rangers road multiple times without any Stanley Cup success. Just for that, Im ok with Coleman. All things considered, there is no guarantee that Bolts are able to get Kreider in any trade. Opportunity for Coleman presented itself and they jumped on it. Nolan Foote is not an elite prospect. He his a good prospect with a heavy shot but is average skater at best with limited creativity (have seen this with my own eyes during Bolts training camp). If everything goes well for him, he could top out as a 2nd line winger but more likely is a 3rd line forward who gets PP time due to his booming shot! NF is also not close to the NHL. He projects to spend at least 2 more years in the AHL honing his skills (at least by Bolts standards) and that does not help Bolts in their Cup pursuits! Its a very good trade for NJ and a great trade for the Bolts!

 

[One Winged Angel]

People have no idea how good Coleman really is, and they post stuff like this. Kreider is damn near on par with Coleman offensively, and there is a big gap defensively in Colemans favor.

Ironic, considering you didn’t do your homework at all. Kreider is a far better defensive player than you know and there’s no gap between the two. Watch Kreider play before saying this. Kreider could easily kill penalties, but the Rangers have other options and would rather save Kreider.

Getting 20 goals and top flight PK work for under 2 million for this and next year is worth an extra first and prospect that won't make an impact for at least 4 years.

The Devils got a great return for a middle-6 player. Coleman on a deep contender isn’t playing the big minutes that he got this season for NJ. Good player to have, NJ won big in this trade though. Overpaid for a player that’s never even scored 40 points in a season. He’ll most likely do so this year, but acting like Coleman is in Kreider’s class is a joke.

 

[Bubbles]

To Tampa's credit, they draft better than any other team in the league, so they're comfortable with finding guys in the later rounds. But it's still an overpayment.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

The more I think about it the more I like it for TB. We needed a middle six guy who can provide offense and strong defensive play. Sounds like Coleman. Plus we have complications with the cap next year. To get some insurance for a player we will likely lose next year and have a replacement ready is underrated here. We really needed some grit in that series against Columbus and for the most part against the Caps the year before. I think he provides some of that. The price is a lot but we have needs as a veteran contending team that will be breaking some core up next year. They need to go for it and Im glad they were aggressive. I wouldnt be surprised if we traded the other Foote now for D depth.

TB fans are going to fall in love with Coleman within 5 games. No one is gonna care about they gave up to get him.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

[QUOTE="Web In Front, post: 170381061, member: 326381"]If Byron was still as good as he was two years ago (he's not) and signed for exactly one more season at $1.8 million, hell yeah I would. Especially if there weren't many better non-rental forwards available and I was running the team with either the best or second-best odds of winning the Cup in the league.

I also enjoy that looking at even strength goals is "nitpicking stats." Pretty sure the Lightning don't need much help on the power play. They just acquired one of the most productive even strength scorers in the league who also happens to be great defensively and an elite PKer.[/QUOTE]

Sorry bud. I find that very hard to believe. Even two years ago, no one here on hf wanted to give a 2nd for Byron let alone a 1st and a decent prospect. That was when Byron was putting up consecutive 20 goal seasons while having an even lower cap than Coleman now. The Coleman trade is reminiscent of the Gaustad, Rivet, Vermette, etc trades all over. Probably worse because Foote was a 1st round pick just last year. I really don't care how many intangibles Coleman brings. Giving up two 1st round picks for Coleman is overkill.

 

[LastWordArmy]

Tatar won't get that return and i'm not sure he'll come close to it, either. He is exponentially more expensive, and Coleman is a more well rounded player.

Then again, GMs are recycled and make the same bad decisions, so all bets are off.

Tatar is at 4.5 million and the habs have the cap space to eat 1/2 that if it means a 1st round pick and top prospect. Could even be more as tatar is a much better player than coleman.

Thing is it probably wont happen cause most GMs will see this for what it is... brisebois overpaying.

When paul gaustad got traded for a first we didnt see a rash of similar deals cause GMs all saw that deal as crazy.

 

[sxvnert]

Sounds like 4yr/5.5m. I could live with that given what he brings to the table.

 

[The Macho King]

What planet are you living on where drafting a franchise goalie (Vasilevskiy), three top six forwards (Drouin, Connolly, Namestnikov), a top four defenseman (DeAngelo) and two legitimate NHL depth pieces (Koekkoek, Howden) with seven picks at an average draft position of 16th overall "sucks"? Compare that to every other team's record in the first round over the past decade and I'll bet Tampa grades out top five at worst by measures like games played, total wins above replacement, whatever you want to pick really.

Yeah but we get more franchise players in the second and third rounds.

 

[Web In Front]

[QUOTE="Web In Front, post: 170381061, member: 326381"]
Sorry bud. I find that very hard to believe. Even two years ago, no one here on hf wanted to give a 2nd for Byron let alone a 1st and a decent prospect. That was when Byron was putting up consecutive 20 goal seasons while having an even lower cap than Coleman now. The Coleman trade is reminiscent of the Gaustad, Rivet, Vermette, etc trades all over. Probably worse because Foote was a 1st round pick just last year. I really don't care how many intangibles Coleman brings. Giving up two 1st round picks for Coleman is overkill.

No one on HF has any idea what the actual value of non-elite picks and prospects are when it comes to acquiring an established impact NHL player under contract for multiple seasons and in his prime, even one who isn't a household name. Picks in the range of Foote and the Vancouver 1st turn into even marginal NHLers a fairly low percentage of the time (less than 40%). You have to get extremely lucky for someone you pick 25th-31st overall to go on to have even a career as good as Paul Byron or Blake Coleman. (Some) GMs understand this, HF does not.

 

[DFC]

People have no idea how good Coleman really is, and they post stuff like this. Kreider is damn near on par with Coleman offensively, and there is a big gap defensively in Colemans favor.

Getting 20 goals and top flight PK work for under 2 million for this and next year is worth an extra first and prospect that won't make an impact for at least 4 years.

What saves us is we should get a good return on killorn. So Coleman replaces Killer next year and hopefully we can recoup the draft pick. Or a 2nd.

 

[Eggtimer]

Tatar is at 4.5 million and the habs have the cap space to eat 1/2 that if it means a 1st round pick and top prospect. Could even be more as tatar is a much better player than coleman.

Much better is debatable .
As a devils fan yes Tatar is the more “skilled”but perhaps Coleman was skilled in areas that Tatar is not ? Attributes that obviously were wanted by Tampa . My point is that it’s not as easy as saying “ Tatar is better he will get more in return “
There are a lot more things to look at than just the amount of points a player puts up .
No way Tatar is as good on the PK . Doesn’t hit as much as Coleman , Coleman can and has produced with limited ice time with scrub line mates.
But that doesn’t mean that Tatar will get the same or less of a package , just that their has to be a team with the need for a player with his skillet and the assets to trade for him .

 

[Web In Front]

I guarantee Tatar with 50% retention returns as much as Coleman did, or at least in the ballpark. 1st + Kaut from Colorado easy.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Is Blake Coleman that much better than j. T miller?

He's that much cheaper. And his role is much more suited to what the Lightning need.

 

[Turin]

People have no idea how good Coleman really is, and they post stuff like this. Kreider is damn near on par with Coleman offensively

Yikes

 

[The Macho King]

He's that much cheaper. And his role is much more suited to what the Lightning need.

Yeah - I think building a winning team is more than picking the "best" 20 players. Our PK got shredded against Columbus (partially due to Hedmans injury, but still). Our production out of the bottom six is often inconsistent. Coleman drops Paquette back to the fourth line, gives us more flexibility in utilizing players on the pk, and will generally give us more defense.

Heres what I know- we are undoubtedly a better team than yesterday. We are a tougher team to play on both ends of the ice. Did we pay a lot for that? Yup. Was it worth it? Dont know yet. But Tampa is taking its shot.

 

[AndreRoy]

I wouldnt be surprised if we traded the other Foote now for D depth.

I would be, unless said D depth consists of someone already in the league but with at least one more ELC year remaining. Coleman is a good replacement for whichever forward we end up losing in the summer but he does add slightly to our cap difficulties, and we’re going to need Cal’s cheap contract more now than ever next season if we are to have any chance of keeping Serg and Cirelli.

I said all along that the only sort of piece we’d move Nolan for was a good player with multiple years of cheap term; I was thinking more along the lines of an ELC forward and didn’t see Coleman coming but he fits the criteria. Cal I only see moving for another ELC defenseman - both positionally and capwise we can’t afford anything else without completely slamming our window shut.

 

[AndreRoy]

Much better is debatable .
As a devils fan yes Tatar is the more “skilled”but perhaps Coleman was skilled in areas that Tatar is not ? Attributes that obviously were wanted by Tampa . My point is that it’s not as easy as saying “ Tatar is better he will get more in return “
There are a lot more things to look at than just the amount of points a player puts up .
No way Tatar is as good on the PK . Doesn’t hit as much as Coleman , Coleman can and has produced with limited ice time with scrub line mates.
But that doesn’t mean that Tatar will get the same or less of a package , just that their has to be a team with the need for a player with his skillet and the assets to trade for him .

Coleman is cheaper and a much better fit for our needs than Tatar. Tatar would have been destined for our third line just as Coleman likely is and the latter is far better suited for that role. If Coleman does end up in our top six it will be on Cirelli’s line which gets our toughest defensive matchups; again Coleman is a better fit than Tatar for that task.

Granted I still don’t like the price we paid for him, but I don’t mind the player we got one bit.

 

[Web In Front]

Yikes

Since the start of last season Kreider has scored 35 goals and 69 points (nice) at even strength playing most often with Zibanejad, Zuccarello and Buchnevich. Coleman has scored 33 goals and 52 points at even strength playing most often with Zajac, Wood and Gusev. Oh and Coleman has also played something like 150 fewer even strength minutes. Kreider and Coleman are absolutely on par with each other offensively in 2020. I really don't care what Kreider did four or five years ago and neither does any decent GM.

 

[CupInSIX]

If the Colorado rumor was true - and apparently a good source confirmed it was a done deal to Lavoie - you have to wonder what the offer was before Tampa got him.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

If the Colorado rumor was true - and apparently a good source confirmed it was a done deal to Lavoie - you have to wonder what the offer was before Tampa got him.

Not as good?

 

[Turin]

Since the start of last season Kreider has scored 35 goals and 69 points (nice) at even strength playing most often with Zibanejad, Zuccarello and Buchnevich. Coleman has scored 33 goals and 52 points at even strength playing most often with Zajac, Wood and Gusev. Oh and Coleman has also played something like 150 fewer even strength minutes. Kreider and Coleman are absolutely on par with each other offensively in 2020. I really don't care what Kreider did four or five years ago and neither does any decent GM.

If you want “what have you done for me lately” Kreider is still better offensively. Also “ES points per 60” is not the only measure of offensive ability.

 

[CupInSIX]

Not as good?

Yeah but what's good enough to make Tampa beat it with Vancouver's 1st and their left Foote?
Newhook?

 

[Eggtimer]

Since the start of last season Kreider has scored 35 goals and 69 points (nice) at even strength playing most often with Zibanejad, Zuccarello and Buchnevich. Coleman has scored 33 goals and 52 points at even strength playing most often with Zajac, Wood and Gusev. Oh and Coleman has also played something like 150 fewer even strength minutes. Kreider and Coleman are absolutely on par with each other offensively in 2020. I really don't care what Kreider did four or five years ago and neither does any decent GM.

That and yes I agree (with a gun held to my head ) that I’d pick Kreider over Coleman but it’s not that easy .
Coleman at 1.8 mil for 1.3 years is > Kreider at 5mil for 4 months

 

[Anthony5967]

Coleman reminds me of Grabner during his Rangers tenure. The extra year with the cheap cap hit is absolutely why he returned more than Grabner did (I know this is random). Kreider, though, is unquestionably better than Coleman. Can we be serious?