Proposal: Tavares to the Sabres (Summer)

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

This is a pretty interesting topic though.

Is there a team that will take on only 1 year of Tavares at 11 million.

It can't just be an overwhelming "yes, but with significant retention".

It’s not interesting, it’s simply a no. There are about 5 teams who are even close to having the cap space for him, and no one else is moving anything to overpay old JT. None of the teams with space have any need for him.

When people make fun of leafs fans for overvaluing their players and being myopic, this is what they’re talking about. You know Tavares isn’t worth his pay, why would another team take that on?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It’s not interesting, it’s simply a no. There are about 5 teams who are even close to having the cap space for him, and no one else is moving anything to overpay old JT. None of the teams with space have any need for him.

When people make fun of leafs fans for overvaluing their players and being myopic, this is what they’re talking about. You know Tavares isn’t worth his pay, why would another team take that on?

So you want to make fun of leaf fans, or do you want to have a real conversation?

You can't just lead in with "Leaf fans are dumb and stupid".

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

So you want to make fun of leaf fans, or do you want to have a real conversation?

You can't just lead in with "Leaf fans are dumb and stupid".

You can’t be serious. I didn’t lead with making fun of leafs fans, I pointed out exactly why this is a ridiculous proposal, and explained that such proposals are why some people mock leafs fans.

As to a conversation, there isn’t one to be had, that’s the entire point. It’s an awful proposal, and you’d have to be incredibly biased not to see that.

 

[Srsly]

Our fan base is pretty terrible at times. We finally land the big UFA and as soon as he starts to exit his prime we want to give away to a bottom feeder for scraps. The only deal here that sounds interesting to me is the Jones deal. He’d be a good mentor for Bedard and Jones would make us a better team due to positional weakness. That said I have to assume we’re keeping JT until his deal expires, and perhaps beyond on a lower cost retirement contract.

 

[StuckOutHere]

As a Leaf fan I think we can kind of count our blessings that he stayed as effective as he did up until this year (and frankly, still a 65ish point pace, he isn't unplayable like some long term deal guys pan out). We will likely ride it out, re-sign him to a more appropriate caphit, and carry on.

With that said, this guy costs $910K after his bonus is paid out. There will be floor teams that could do worse then JT for the acquisition cost of probably basically nothing.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

You can’t be serious. I didn’t lead with making fun of leafs fans, I pointed out exactly why this is a ridiculous proposal, and explained that such proposals are why some people mock leafs fans.

As to a conversation, there isn’t one to be had, that’s the entire point. It’s an awful proposal, and you’d have to be incredibly biased not to see that.

No. I disagree. You have to do more on HF then go from thread to thread and dismiss.

 

[4thline]

If he were a UFA this offseason looking for a 1 year deal he'd be in line for 6-7m as a plus level 2C.

What's one year of a 6-7m plus level 2C worth in trade? (A decent amount)
What's one year of 4-5m dead cap worth? (A little less)
Are there any teams interested in both? (Probably few enough that the above get's blurred via leverage, especially with Tavares controlling his destination)

If the Leafs wanted to move on it's likely a situation where a team with space can get a decent player for peanuts relative to his ability at full cap, or the Leafs retain down to 6-7 to make a solid trade.

I doubt either will happen.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

How about just a good old hockey trade?

To BUF: JT - full cap

To TOR: Jeff freaking Skinner - full cap

 

[McJedi]

If he were a UFA this offseason looking for a 1 year deal he'd be in line for 6-7m as a plus level 2C.

What's one year of a 6-7m plus level 2C worth in trade? (A decent amount)
What's one year of 4-5m dead cap worth? (A little less)
Are there any teams interested in both? (Probably few enough that the above get's blurred via leverage, especially with Tavares controlling his destination)

If the Leafs wanted to move on it's likely a situation where a team with space can get a decent player for peanuts relative to his ability at full cap, or the Leafs retain down to 6-7 to make a solid trade.

I doubt either will happen.

There are zero NHL teams that will trade even a peanut to Toronto to get Tavares at his full cap hit.

Retained at 50%, you’d create a decent market for him as a rental 2C.

 

[StuckOutHere]

There are zero NHL teams that will trade even a peanut to Toronto to get Tavares at his full cap hit.

Retained at 50%, you’d create a decent market for him as a rental 2C.

Pretty sure that a team like Chicago or Arizona that need to reach the floor and have good vets for their kids could do a lot worse than paying nothing to acquire John Tavares on July 2.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You’re a Buffalo fan proposing this?

I highly doubt there is a single TML fan that believes their captain has positive value.

There is a 0.000000% chance any NHL team trades for Taveras at his full AAV and sends only picks or prospects the other way. He’s not even worth a 7th round pick 72 years from today at that AAV.

I know you are being sarcastic but this post does make me wonder how far ahead can you trade picks?

Like if the Oilers, Leafs or anyone else wanted to trade away let's say their 2042 1st and 2nd round picks can they technically do that? As far as I'm aware there is technically no limit.

 

[McJedi]

I know you are being sarcastic but this post does make me wonder how far ahead can you trade picks?

Like if the Oilers, Leafs or anyone else wanted to trade away let's say their 2042 1st and 2nd round picks can they technically do that? As far as I'm aware there is technically no limit.

That’s so funny. I had the exact same thought when I wrote this. How far out can you actually trade a pick? It goes out pretty far in the NBA.

I have no idea myself. But I’m also a bit curious.

Pretty sure that a team like Chicago or Arizona that need to reach the floor and have good vets for their kids could do a lot worse than paying nothing to acquire John Tavares on July 2.

But Chicago and Arizona aren’t stupid. They’d know their leverage here.

They’d be in an excellent position to demand something of value for the $11mm of cap space that buys Toronto.

 

[miscs75]

How about just a good old hockey trade?

To BUF: JT - full cap

To TOR: Jeff freaking Skinner - full cap

$2m savings and 2 more years of term. I think Sabres fans sign up for that one. Byram is a RFA then and you know he’s getting a raise. Times out perfectly for them while being able to use the good amount difference to finally upgrade the team (and coaching/management) to bring back the exciting years of Drury and Briere (and Rory Fitzpatrick, vote for him).

 

[StuckOutHere]

That’s so funny. I had the exact same thought when I wrote this. How far out can you actually trade a pick? It goes out pretty far in the NBA.

I have no idea myself. But I’m also a bit curious.


But Chicago and Arizona aren’t stupid. They’d know their leverage here.

They’d be in an excellent position to demand something of value for the $11mm of cap space that buys Toronto.

100%, the Leafs will have to give up "something" but this isn't Pronger or Datsyuk. This guy can still play and play pretty well. End of the day it would be a pretty mutually beneficial trade for those teams getting all that cap hit, a decent NHL C, and for basically a league minimum salary. The Leafs aren't the only team extracting a benefit here. The alternative for Chicago, San Jose, or, more specifically, Arizona is to actually find a C in the UFA market and pay them more in real dollars while not getting an asset in return.

 

[Puckstuff]

How about just a good old hockey trade?

To BUF: JT - full cap

To TOR: Jeff freaking Skinner - full cap

In your dreams. Tavares only has 1 year after the offseason and will only be owed 900 k after July 1st. We can also get 70 points out of him next year. Not saying he's valuable, but it's not that big of a problem for 1 year. Skinner on the other hand is a boat anchor for many years to come.

 

[Recipe Unlimited]

I think it would cost a 1st to get rid of Tavares. This is comparable to the Marleau flip, which cost a 1st. Tavares makes more money, but is still an NHL contributor.

 

[De Montreal]

The man already ruined one rebuild

Let him rest

 

[4thline]

They’d be in an excellent position to demand something of value for the $11mm of cap space that buys Toronto.

But it's not buying Toronto 11m in cap space, it's buying 4-5m in cap space and a creating a 6-7m roster hole

 

[dire wolf]

Pass. Also, his name is already in the rafters at Key Bank Center.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That’s so funny. I had the exact same thought when I wrote this. How far out can you actually trade a pick? It goes out pretty far in the NBA.

I have no idea myself. But I’m also a bit curious.


But Chicago and Arizona aren’t stupid. They’d know their leverage here.

They’d be in an excellent position to demand something of value for the $11mm of cap space that buys Toronto.

Just think if Toronto and Edmonton did a pick swap of 2044 1st round picks can you imagine the conditions on those picks?

The people that will be drafted are not born and will not be born for another 2 years

 

[Voight]

I suspect he will. Really depends on next season and whether he wants to stay a Leaf. The fanbase may be done with him to some extent but I don't think the organization is.

If he's still looking for 7+, you have to think Toronto lets him walk though.

People will be surprised, Tavares IMO will sign for a super steep discount more than they would expect.

Hes captain of his childhood team and has already made tens of millions of dollars. I don't see him giving that up.

 

[ACC1224]

Assuming Leafs get bounced in the first round and Tavares would waive to Buffalo. Seem to recall he has some interest in the Sabres when he was a UFA. He only has one year left and could really add to PP and faceoffs. He game overall has really dropped and the Leafs have him down to the 3rd line but he definitely still has vet value.
Obvious benefit to the Leafs clearing 11 million cap space and recouping desperately needed draft picks.

Tavares

for

2024 - 2nd
2025 - 3rd (2nd) if he resigns

Tavares = NMC

 

[McJedi]

Just think if Toronto and Edmonton did a pick swap of 2044 1st round picks can you imagine the conditions on those picks?

The people that will be drafted are not born and will not be born for another 2 years

There is this GM in the NBA named Sam Presti. He is the GM of the Oklahoma City team. He's probably the best GM in all of sports. He plays a long game and has been acquiring future unprotected picks for years. Picks that are 5+ years out. From teams that are currently good, but may be crap in 2031.

I think the Habs have a pretty good GM. I think Pitt doesn't. Can you imagine if the Habs GM went to Dubas and said..

I'll trade you Newhook for your 2030 1st unprotected. Or even better, I'll trade you Matheson 50% retained for your 2031 1st round pick unprotected. Could be any team or any player. Hughes owns the Flames 2025 1st rounder and that looks very juicy today... except for some conditions on it that could shift it to the Panthers pick. But the idea was there when the Habs took on Monahan and took pretty delayed compensation.

The possibilities are fascinating if the NHL goes the NBA route and future picks deep into the future become currency.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think it would cost a 1st to get rid of Tavares. This is comparable to the Marleau flip, which cost a 1st. Tavares makes more money, but is still an NHL contributor.

This move was widely criticized. A 1st for Marleau is not the norm. You won't be able to site the NHL General Manager's Handbook on this one.

 

[McJedi]

But it's not buying Toronto 11m in cap space, it's buying 4-5m in cap space and a creating a 6-7m roster hole

It buys Toronto $11MM in cap space and adds a 2C to list of players they need to address. It's very enticing to Toronto and the GM would accept ANY Taveres deal in a nanosecond if made in a vacunm. But he's got the full NTC so this is all pointless conjecture.

Some of you seem to think Tavares will come back in 2025-26 on some sweetheart one year deal at say... $2.5MM to be the 3C for Toronto.

And maybe they are right.

No matter what, Toronto will have to allocate $11MM of cap space to Tavares next season and I assume he'll be in the line-up. One year older and one year slower.

This move was widely criticized. A 1st for Marleau is not the norm. You won't be able to site the NHL General Manager's Handbook on this one.

It would cost at least a 1st and it's a silly thought exercise since Tavares has a NMC and he's the captain. He's not going anywhere.

He'll be back on your team next year. Let that settle in and build around his $11MM cap hit.