Speculation: Tanking?

[Disgruntled Observer*]

what is this EA sports ?

Imagine the leafs entire rebuilt core were aged 18-24.
Would you be claiming the rebuild was a 'failure' at this point?

Of course you wouldn't.
A large part of our current rebuilt core are pushing 30... and people are STILL claiming "patience".
Lol.
You get that? A rebuilt core with many pushing 30. "Patience".
A rebuilt core of players 18-24. "failed rebuild".
It's just so embarrassing...

 

[Bomber0104]

what is this EA sports ?

No it's a pretty simple concept that most NHL players don't hit their peak until their mid to late 20's.

Which not a single one of their core players currently are close to.

Closest would be Jordan Eberle. He's 24. Next, Taylor Hall. He's 22.

 

[Bomber0104]

Unfortunately for tank nation, Kulemin, Raymond and McClement were all addition by subtraction. Kulemin in particular became a fan favourite, but he has always been overrated. He has terrible hands, and his defence is only mediocre. McClement was awful for us last year, and Raymond just isn't the guy we need in a top 6 with Kessel Kadri, and Lupul all playing the "skill only" roles.

This is hilarious.

If Kulemin's defence is "mediocre", I'd like to know what forward on the Leafs has "good" defence.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

then why are you watching them?

Good question Daisy.

Add this to the list of silliness of some advocating we should boo our players. I used to be able to say we were the best fans in hockey, not anymore.

 

[Stephen]

This is hilarious.

If Kulemin's defence is "mediocre", I'd like to know what forward on the Leafs has "good" defence.

Kulemin's getting overrated massively on defense. Maybe on the Harlem Maple Trotters he looked great defensively by comparison but I bet on the St. Louis Blues his contributions would look pretty much par for course.

 

[Purity*]

Good question Daisy.

Add this to the list of silliness of some advocating we should boo our players. I used to be able to say we were the best fans in hockey, not anymore.

When were we ever "the best fans in hockey?"

We should be complaining as often and as loud as possible at every opportunity to send a message to MLSE, no more incompetence. I wish our fanbase was more like Montreal's.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Good question Daisy.

Add this to the list of silliness of some advocating we should boo our players. I used to be able to say we were the best fans in hockey, not anymore.

well - here is my stance.

i get the cranky, I get the frustration - i even get the booing (if it's at the end of the season and they totally crashed and burned like they did), i get not understanding some decisions, I get not seeing where things are going (as of yet), and all of that stuff -

but if you can't find one inkling of hope or whatever word you want to apply here (without going "oh well here is another kool-aid drinking fan, no wonder the leafs make money burawbrawbrbaw, satisfied with being [insert demeaning word here].") then stop watching. there are 29 other teams in the league. get NHL centre ice and watch any one of them.


i am very excited about this season. there are a lot of questions - and i personally don't think we're going to do that well, there's a lot of things stacked up against the team - and because there have been no promises made that "yes we're making the playoffs, we're going to do this, that or the other." just that Shanahan is going to continue to take time to truly evaluate the team and make changes when possible and if necessary, i take it to mean that if the last vesitages of the core that have been around for the last 3 collapses don't shape up - they're shipping out (as Shanahan removed all of the excuses they could have had this year. I'm excited to see if they raise to the challenge, and if not - who goes first, what comes back, it will signal a lot imo.

I'm excited to see how Morgan approaches this season. I'm anticipating a sophomore slump - but i'm eager to see how he finds a way to handle that obstacle. or if he even slumps. I'm wondering if he finds a way to actually hit the net (that was one of the major issues i had with his game).


I'm wondering how Bernier approaches this season knowing that A: he's flat out #1 (as deemed by Shanahan), and B: how he'll fare with a very cranky fan base. Last season he has a lot of built in buffers (1A/1B system, being injured, horrendous defensive system). most of that is not going to be allowed to be an excuse. and the one little taste of it, Bernier did face - he was a very cranky goaltender.

I can't wait to see how the soap-opera of Randy behind the bench shapes up (does he last the season - what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back (for Shanahan), what will be the straw that breaks, Randy's back - he has no toys (McClemment, Orr, etc). And - quite frankly - the Drama re: Nonis. what will cause him to lose his job - will he lose his job? Who knows?

and in reality - i can't wait to see how this team reacts to all the changes. no one is giving them a chance (deservedly so) but they tend to play better when people give them no hope (for a while anyway). can they succeed that? or will they be crappy. how will they react to the adversity (ie: will they be as passive as last season, or will they take everyone out while they sink to the bottom).

How will the young kids fare?

that's what's making me eager for the season, among other things.
if we make the playoffs next season - wonderful. (but i think personally, that would be bad in the long run, even though it gives bernier, and morgan and the others more playoff minutes under the belts).

if we fall and we draft top 10 (which is my prediction) - then that's great too.

but if you can't find one thing (other than being miserable and coming on HF to berate people about it all the time) that is exciting to you re: the upcoming season - then just take a break. watch something else.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

well - here is my stance.

i get the cranky, I get the frustration - i even get the booing (if it's at the end of the season and they totally crashed and burned like they did), i get not understanding some decisions, I get not seeing where things are going (as of yet), and all of that stuff -

but if you can't find one inkling of hope or whatever word you want to apply here (without going "oh well here is another kool-aid drinking fan, no wonder the leafs make money burawbrawbrbaw, satisfied with being [insert demeaning word here].") then stop watching. there are 29 other teams in the league. get NHL centre ice and watch any one of them.


i am very excited about this season. there are a lot of questions - and i personally don't think we're going to do that well, there's a lot of things stacked up against the team - and because there have been no promises made that "yes we're making the playoffs, we're going to do this, that or the other." just that Shanahan is going to continue to take time to truly evaluate the team and make changes when possible and if necessary, i take it to mean that if the last vesitages of the core that have been around for the last 3 collapses don't shape up - they're shipping out (as Shanahan removed all of the excuses they could have had this year. I'm excited to see if they raise to the challenge, and if not - who goes first, what comes back, it will signal a lot imo.

I'm excited to see how Morgan approaches this season. I'm anticipating a sophomore slump - but i'm eager to see how he finds a way to handle that obstacle. or if he even slumps. I'm wondering if he finds a way to actually hit the net (that was one of the major issues i had with his game).


I'm wondering how Bernier approaches this season knowing that A: he's flat out #1 (as deemed by Shanahan), and B: how he'll fare with a very cranky fan base. Last season he has a lot of built in buffers (1A/1B system, being injured, horrendous defensive system). most of that is not going to be allowed to be an excuse. and the one little taste of it, Bernier did face - he was a very cranky goaltender.

I can't wait to see how the soap-opera of Randy behind the bench shapes up (does he last the season - what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back (for Shanahan), what will be the straw that breaks, Randy's back - he has no toys (McClemment, Orr, etc). And - quite frankly - the Drama re: Nonis. what will cause him to lose his job - will he lose his job? Who knows?

and in reality - i can't wait to see how this team reacts to all the changes. no one is giving them a chance (deservedly so) but they tend to play better when people give them no hope (for a while anyway). can they succeed that? or will they be crappy. how will they react to the adversity (ie: will they be as passive as last season, or will they take everyone out while they sink to the bottom).

How will the young kids fare?

that's what's making me eager for the season, among other things.
if we make the playoffs next season - wonderful. (but i think personally, that would be bad in the long run, even though it gives bernier, and morgan and the others more playoff minutes under the belts).

if we fall and we draft top 10 (which is my prediction) - then that's great too.

but if you can't find one thing (other than being miserable and coming on HF to berate people about it all the time) that is exciting to you re: the upcoming season - then just take a break. watch something else.

I am excited to see Bozak, Kessel, and JVR again, Rielly to continue his rise to stardom. Granberg to take a step fwd into being a regular NHL D men.

Other than this, I see struggles. Bernier should be busy. When the dust settles, we will see who is left with this team after next year, if things go the way I presume, we may have a sell off at the deadline. Shanny may be looking to surround himself with new hockey people. And this is exciting for me.

 

[studebaker17]

Imagine the leafs entire rebuilt core were aged 18-24.
Would you be claiming the rebuild was a 'failure' at this point?

Of course you wouldn't.
A large part of our current rebuilt core are pushing 30... and people are STILL claiming "patience".
Lol.
You get that? A rebuilt core with many pushing 30. "Patience".
A rebuilt core of players 18-24. "failed rebuild".
It's just so embarrassing...

what is this obsession with thinking your team all has to be the same age and grow together ? i've only ever seen 1 team do that and that was the early 80's oilers. look at the current stanley cup winners. they have their best d at 24 and there conn smyth winner at 32 and key players from 21 to 37. same thing with chicago and boston. it plainly takes good players to win no matter what age they are.

 

[FlareKnight]

well - here is my stance.

i get the cranky, I get the frustration - i even get the booing (if it's at the end of the season and they totally crashed and burned like they did), i get not understanding some decisions, I get not seeing where things are going (as of yet), and all of that stuff -

but if you can't find one inkling of hope or whatever word you want to apply here (without going "oh well here is another kool-aid drinking fan, no wonder the leafs make money burawbrawbrbaw, satisfied with being [insert demeaning word here].") then stop watching. there are 29 other teams in the league. get NHL centre ice and watch any one of them.


i am very excited about this season. there are a lot of questions - and i personally don't think we're going to do that well, there's a lot of things stacked up against the team - and because there have been no promises made that "yes we're making the playoffs, we're going to do this, that or the other." just that Shanahan is going to continue to take time to truly evaluate the team and make changes when possible and if necessary, i take it to mean that if the last vesitages of the core that have been around for the last 3 collapses don't shape up - they're shipping out (as Shanahan removed all of the excuses they could have had this year. I'm excited to see if they raise to the challenge, and if not - who goes first, what comes back, it will signal a lot imo.

I'm excited to see how Morgan approaches this season. I'm anticipating a sophomore slump - but i'm eager to see how he finds a way to handle that obstacle. or if he even slumps. I'm wondering if he finds a way to actually hit the net (that was one of the major issues i had with his game).


I'm wondering how Bernier approaches this season knowing that A: he's flat out #1 (as deemed by Shanahan), and B: how he'll fare with a very cranky fan base. Last season he has a lot of built in buffers (1A/1B system, being injured, horrendous defensive system). most of that is not going to be allowed to be an excuse. and the one little taste of it, Bernier did face - he was a very cranky goaltender.

I can't wait to see how the soap-opera of Randy behind the bench shapes up (does he last the season - what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back (for Shanahan), what will be the straw that breaks, Randy's back - he has no toys (McClemment, Orr, etc). And - quite frankly - the Drama re: Nonis. what will cause him to lose his job - will he lose his job? Who knows?

and in reality - i can't wait to see how this team reacts to all the changes. no one is giving them a chance (deservedly so) but they tend to play better when people give them no hope (for a while anyway). can they succeed that? or will they be crappy. how will they react to the adversity (ie: will they be as passive as last season, or will they take everyone out while they sink to the bottom).

How will the young kids fare?

that's what's making me eager for the season, among other things.
if we make the playoffs next season - wonderful. (but i think personally, that would be bad in the long run, even though it gives bernier, and morgan and the others more playoff minutes under the belts).

if we fall and we draft top 10 (which is my prediction) - then that's great too.

but if you can't find one thing (other than being miserable and coming on HF to berate people about it all the time) that is exciting to you re: the upcoming season - then just take a break. watch something else.

So basically, "if you don't agree with me, get the hell out"? I don't think you actually get to decide whether people can be fans or follow the team.

It's just going against one form of extremism with another.

 

[jaleong]

I think the best move for the Leafs long-term would be to retool, not rebuild. That means keeping all the good complementary pieces and/or cornerstones and replacing the other parts through the draft or through prospects received through trades. The next two draft years are loaded with potential cornerstones, with the possibility of a stud #1 C in 2015 and a stud #1 D in 2016 (Jacob Chychrun). Leafs trade Phaneuf, who I like but would serve the [young] Leafs far better as a trade piece than as a leader. Keeping players like Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Nylander, Rielly, Gardiner, and Bernier will allow us to instantly contend for the cup if we can hit the lotto and land McDavid next season, and trading Phaneuf will ensure we get closer to the #1 pick.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So basically, "if you don't agree with me, get the hell out"? I don't think you actually get to decide whether people can be fans or follow the team.

It's just going against one form of extremism with another.

well no - but i dont' get watching something you don't get one ounce of enjoyment from. so if watching the team makes you miserable, and then you come here and talk about how miserable the team makes you why are you watching the team - when there are other teams that you can follow that in theory wouldn't make you miserable. so why not watch those teams?

 

[34]

Yes, I support it.

Kessel
JVR
Gardiner
Reilly

Those are the only players I keep. All the other spare parts can go.

 

[GalacticaActual]

We have already been tanking anyway. People are on their high horse saying "B-b-b-b-b-b-but it's immoral! It goes against competitive spirit!!!"

And yet, we have Nylander and Rielly, two absolute studs, which we would not have if we didn't tank these past two years.

In fact, we have tanked 4 of the last 5 years. Those tank years netted picks like Seguin (stud #1c), Hamilton (stud #1d), Rielly (potential stud d-man), and Nylander (potential stud winger).

Whether you support tanking or not, that's what the Maple Leafs have been doing, and that's what they will be doing for the foreseeable future (especially since they made only cosmetic changes this year - we still have the same core, same coaching staff, and same management).

 

[Moncherry]

If you're going to suck, at least do it in a way that doesn't inspire hope in your fans and then pull the rug out from under them with crushing disappointment at the pivotal moment every season. I still struggle to grasp the fact that they lost 12 of the last 14 games.

At this point I've become numb to losing. If they bottom out, so be it. A high draft pick is the easiest method of acquiring the type of player needed to become a true contender.

 

[GalacticaActual]

If you're going to suck, at least do it in a way that doesn't inspire hope in your fans and then pull the rug out from under them with crushing disappointment at the pivotal moment every season. I still struggle to grasp the fact that they lost 12 of the last 14 games.

At this point I've become numb to losing. If they bottom out, so be it. A high draft pick is the easiest method of acquiring the type of player needed to become a true contender.

There is no "If". Like I said, they have bottomed out and effectively tanked for 4 of the past 5 years. And the only reason they didn't tank in 2013 is because it was only a 48-game season. Truth be told this team is completely incapable of playing past the 55-60 games mark.

 

[Moncherry]

It's not tanking when you think you have a playoff team and fail year after year.

Unless you're just using the term 'tanking' as a placeholder for 'sucking'.

 

[Sonofamitch]

If we're gonna suck, this is the year to do it.

 

[rojac]

As for booing our own team, isn't that going to make the Leafs even more of a team that players don't want to play for?

 

[TheLeafsBro]

The way I look at it "the kids" will have to have a spectacular year and all live up to their potential from the get-go. Anything short of that we won't make the playoffs. So, if they can do that then I support them 100% to not tank and it will be great for our organization to know our young boys are the real deal.

Having said that, our Eastern Conference is too weak for us to tank into a legit top 5 pick. We couldn't have possibly failed worse in the collapse last season and even then we got the 8th pick. Plus other teams like the Sens have become even worse..

We're still stuck where we always are, a bubble team somewhere in the 12-7th spot. Just like when we all used to get our hopes up for this team to make the playoffs, don't make the same mistake and hope for McDavid/Eichel pick because it's not going to happen and it will be another let down. Don't you think other bottom table teams are probably looking for that pick too?

Might as well hope our boys find a way into the postseason. Expectations for the team are low this year, maybe that will take a lot of pressure off of the kids. It's a long shot but **** it, we're not getting a top 3 pick unless we get really lucky.

 

[leafs in five]

then why are you watching them?

so i can reply to people who used to think that "watching the game" revealed that the Leafs were a good, winning team that kept opponents' chances to a minimum p.s. sup interactif

 

[Al14]

I voted to support a tank, however, I can't see it happening. Well, unless Shananonis trades our 1st round pick, then, we'll TANK FOR SURE!

 

[ConnorTO]

Leafs > Oilers

jus sayin

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Leafs > Oilers

jus sayin

Their rebuilt core are all 18-24. What on earth do you expect from these borderline children?
When they grow together into their primes however...

 

[sommervr]

I am excited to see Bozak, Kessel, and JVR again, Rielly to continue his rise to stardom. Granberg to take a step fwd into being a regular NHL D men.

Other than this, I see struggles. Bernier should be busy. When the dust settles, we will see who is left with this team after next year, if things go the way I presume, we may have a sell off at the deadline. Shanny may be looking to surround himself with new hockey people. And this is exciting for me.

You defended all the moves that got us into this sorry state. Grabo and MacA gone and Bozak annointed. If you had your way Kadri and Gardiner would be gone and things would be even worse.

Bozak didn't play a lick of defense last year after returning from injury and that whole line was playing below the other teams hash marks.

The just stat padded after the Olympic break and the team results went down the dumpster. Kessel was literally banking pucks in off Bozak.

Bozak won't shoot 20% this year and Spott will have him playing high in the offensive zone. So enjoy Bozak and his 40 points.

And Granberg will likely not have a great camp much as I like him.