Speculation: Tanking?

[Morbo]

I don't think tank in required but it might end be the end result.

Leafs have made themselves very vulnerable this year due to lack of team depth both at forward and defense.

Last season anyone of Bolland, Kulemin and Raymond were capable of moving up into the top 6 as an injury replacement and on D players like Gleason and Ranger provided depth and experience. This year they will only have 6 Dmen signed with NHL experience and one of those is Rielly with just 1 year under his belt..

Injuries to players particularly those playing top 2 lines and top 4 D will really test Leafs depth through inexperience.

yeah, if any of Bernier Kessel or Phaneuf get injured for any substantial length of time, the team's postseason hopes are pretty much over with. then again, that was true last year and it isn't something one can fix in a single offseason.

Hopefully Kontiola and Santorelli are much better players than the kinds of guys like this the Leafs have gotten in the past such as Wallin, Khavanov, etc.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

The Leafs lack of success since 2012 when it looked like things were turning the corner somewhat is due to the faulty foundations Burke built the club on. But cream rises to the top and teams like the Leafs usually don't get very far, so for our troubles and heart ache we've luckily been able to add Reilly and Nylander as 'unexpected' top 10 picks.

I wouldn't be surprised if we walked away from 2015 and 2016 with top 10 picks as well.

By fall 2016, we might have a stable of Kessel, JVR, Bernier, Gardiner, Kadri, Rielly, Nylander, Top 10, Top 10, which will really start looking like a thoroughly rebuilt club whether intended or not.

Which would make it TWELVE years since our team fell apart due to the introduction of the cap. TWELVE years to turn things around (if things actually DO turn around).
Imagine the team started a REAL rebuild way back then, like so many of us were SCREAMING for.

 

[rojac]

Why do people feel they need to know where a team is going ahead of time? Does it really matter? Watch the games and see what happens. Don't worry about whether the Leafs are contending for the Cup or contending for McDavid. What happens is completely out of your control anyway so why base any of your enjoyment on that? Odds are that we probably won't really know what the club's likely outcome is until at least the trade deadline anyway, so why not just sit back and enjoy the ride.

But to be honest, I'd rather see the team in competition for a playoff spot most of the season like this past year than sink to the bottom of the league in hopes that some 18 year old kid can save the team. To be honest, if I ever thought the Leafs were deliberately tanking, I'd be cheering for their high draft pick to decide to give up hockey altogether for some other pursuit.

 

[Mess]

yeah, if any of Bernier Kessel or Phaneuf get injured for any substantial length of time, the team's postseason hopes are pretty much over with. then again, that was true last year and it isn't something one can fix in a single offseason.

Hopefully Kontiola and Santorelli are much better players than the kinds of guys like this the Leafs have gotten in the past such as Wallin, Khavanov, etc.

Stamkos played only 37 games last year and TB was still a 100pt team, hate to think how many points the Leafs would end up with if Kessel played only 37 next year.

Leafs were very fortunately last year as their star players Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR stayed healthy and Bernier missed just a handful of games.. This year however even if Kadri or Lupul or Gardiner missed significant time who would replace them?.

This team is very thin in terms of depth and added experience in Robidas but downgraded significantly in experience at forward depth overall.

Even if Leafs top 6 forwards go cold this team is really going to struggle. IMO

 

[rojac]

Which would make it TWELVE years since our team fell apart due to the introduction of the cap. TWELVE years to turn things around (if things actually DO turn around).
Imagine the team started a REAL rebuild way back then, like so many of us were SCREAMING for.

So, in other words, you're throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get your own way.

There is no guarantee that the team would be in a better spot if they had done what you and your crowd call a "real rebuild". Maybe it would have resulted in the Leafs winning five straight Stanley Cups. Maybe it would have set off a chain reaction that resulted in the end of the world as we know it. Okay, the latter one is very, very, very unlikely, but my point is that unless you have some magical ability to peer into alternate timelines, you have absolutely no idea how any other approach might have worked out. And it is pure arrogance on your part to suggest otherwise.

In truth, there are several approaches the Leafs could have taken post-lockout. The one they took has yet to bear much fruit. But that does not automatically mean that the other approaches would have worked better.

 

[JimmyPower]

So, in other words, you're throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get your own way.

There is no guarantee that the team would be in a better spot if they had done what you and your crowd call a "real rebuild". Maybe it would have resulted in the Leafs winning five straight Stanley Cups. Maybe it would have set off a chain reaction that resulted in the end of the world as we know it. Okay, the latter one is very, very, very unlikely, but my point is that unless you have some magical ability to peer into alternate timelines, you have absolutely no idea how any other approach might have worked out. And it is pure arrogance on your part to suggest otherwise.

In truth, there are several approaches the Leafs could have taken post-lockout. The one they took has yet to bear much fruit. But that does not automatically mean that the other approaches would have worked better.

1 playoff round since the lockout.. you really think it could have been worse if they chose high end talent in the draft as oppose to trading picks/ not picking/ picking after the top 5?

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

So, in other words, you're throwing a temper tantrum because you didn't get your own way.

There is no guarantee that the team would be in a better spot if they had done what you and your crowd call a "real rebuild". Maybe it would have resulted in the Leafs winning five straight Stanley Cups. Maybe it would have set off a chain reaction that resulted in the end of the world as we know it. Okay, the latter one is very, very, very unlikely, but my point is that unless you have some magical ability to peer into alternate timelines, you have absolutely no idea how any other approach might have worked out. And it is pure arrogance on your part to suggest otherwise.

In truth, there are several approaches the Leafs could have taken post-lockout. The one they took has yet to bear much fruit. But that does not automatically mean that the other approaches would have worked better.

Excuse me... did you just say things could have been worse?
One playoff appearance? Winning ZERO playoff rounds?
We have been the flat out WORSE team in the nhl since the cap was introduced. All as the richest team that actually spend to the ceiling. Even the Oilers have won THREE playoff rounds since the cap was introduced.
It doesn't get any worse than being the WORST!!!!

 

[ConnorTO]

1 playoff round since the lockout.. you really think it could have been worse if they chose high end talent in the draft as oppose to trading picks/ not picking/ picking after the top 5?

like edmonton ?

 

[Diatomic]

Yes, as long as the young guns (Rielly, Kadri, Gardiner) and the prospects aren't traded I'm fine with it.

 

[agropop]

I'd remove Phaneuf and Bozak under the belief that we have internal options that at least couldn't do any worse.

 

[Kubus]

I respectfully disagree. Calgary has Monahan and Bennet who can step in. Raymond can add some scoring depth too. Hiller is a good goalie too.

The Oilers are much improved, they will have a better D core and their forwards are slowly maturing.

The battle for the basement is going to between Toronto, Ottawa and Carolina.

You think the Flames are going to be carried by kids? LOL.

Flames, Oilers, Sens, Canes, Sabers these are the teams looking at bottom 5. The Leafs if they actually had some kind of system, and weren't one of the worst PK teams while taking tones of penalties, would be a decent team. Again that goes back to system.

The only team there that has a chance of anything is the Oilers, if their kids can finally put something together...but this is a show me first type of situation.

For the Leafs to tank we need Bernier and or Kessel out for most of the season.

 

[Daisy Jane]

But to be honest, I'd rather see the team in competition for a playoff spot most of the season like this past year than sink to the bottom of the league in hopes that some 18 year old kid can save the team. To be honest, if I ever thought the Leafs were deliberately tanking, I'd be cheering for their high draft pick to decide to give up hockey altogether for some other pursuit.

but what is the point of being in competition for a playoff spot, only to bottom out and draft in a section where it's not future top line talent (either on defense or up front) but second-third line talent/2nd-3rd pairing - which the team has a plethora of - but no one admittedly (at this point in time) that people can go. #1.

I'm not speaking for everyone else - just for me - but it's not so an 18 year old can save the team - because I wouldn't want the 18 year old (nor do I think would a lot of people in the organization, regardless how some people feel about them) wanting to play on the team unless they were ready. If it was a MacKinnon/Stamkos type then sure. But unlike almost 80% of the league we don't NEED to play the 18 year old to draw tickets. So what would be the point of playing them.

But having the most talented player [or insert what other buzz wards are popular right now] to add to the system is a good thing. And as of right now better served for the team than fighting for a playoff spot just to lose in the 1st round and we draft 18-22 - once again landing us a very good and capable player - adding more of the same.

I doubt anyone (you could potentially argue Buffalo last year & this) has really flat out tanked out since Pittsburgh (and you can choose to figure out which one i'm talking about) - but if the goal is to either go on lengthy cup runs (which we're not set up to do as of yet) vs. being set up to ensure that we've got the right assets to potentially go on lengthy cup runs - why is the 2nd looked down upon to the point where you would hope said player decides not to play hockey, vs the 1st - where the team most likely challenge for a wild-card spot (possibly eek out a guaranteed one) but isn't really set up to go any further than the 2nd round?

 

[Stephen]

Which would make it TWELVE years since our team fell apart due to the introduction of the cap. TWELVE years to turn things around (if things actually DO turn around).
Imagine the team started a REAL rebuild way back then, like so many of us were SCREAMING for.

Yeah that's horrible. We really should have been drafting first in 2008 and 2009.

 

[FifthLine]

lol if anyone thinks we are intentionally tanking, it might be the worst tank job ever. We are currently way to good to be bottom 3.

 

[leafsfan5]

tank nation!!!!

 

[therealkoho]

Anyone think we're tanking without knowing it?

there's a lot of time that people here think that they're thinking but don't know they're not thinking at all

 

[Menzinger]

One of the most disconcerting things about if we end up taking this season is we don't own our 2nd round pick.

 

[leafs in five]

What happens is completely out of your control anyway so why base any of your enjoyment on that? Odds are that we probably won't really know what the club's likely outcome is until at least the trade deadline anyway, so why not just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I don't find it to be enjoyable to watch the Leafs, they are terrible.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't find it to be enjoyable to watch the Leafs, they are terrible.

then why are you watching them?

 

[Suntouchable13]

lol if anyone thinks we are intentionally tanking, it might be the worst tank job ever. We are currently way to good to be bottom 3.

Why would anyone think that they are planning on tanking this season? All of the main core is still very much intact. And then the additions that they have made all make this team a little tougher to play against. I think that Shanny and company are planning to compete. None of what happened so far would lead me to suggest that they are trying to finish at the bottom. Except maybe retaining Randy, but then they replaced all of the assistants.

 

[JimmyPower]

like edmonton ?

Edmonton is an example of a team picking too many of the same players and lucking out in weak drafts.

However I still wouldn't count them out as a future threat. Their core is still 23 and under.

That's 1 example of the draft not panning out/ drafting improperly. After that 1 example, there's not many more.

 

[Purity*]

100% for tanking.

We have the perfect lineup to remain in no man's land (9th-12th place).

What exactly would this lineup accomplish in the playoffs anyway? You don't see any teams with Tyler Bozak as a top-line center go anywhere.

Excuse me... did you just say things could have been worse?
One playoff appearance? Winning ZERO playoff rounds?
We have been the flat out WORSE team in the nhl since the cap was introduced. All as the richest team that actually spend to the ceiling. Even the Oilers have won THREE playoff rounds since the cap was introduced.
It doesn't get any worse than being the WORST!!!!

I am definitely sick of hearing the "we aren't that bad" ******** rhetoric. We've been a brutal franchise for a long ****ing time now and it's about time that it changes. And to the people who say "stop complaining blah blah blah" umm how about NO? There is way too many things to complain about with this team.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

like edmonton ?

Edmontons rebuilt core range from teenagers to 24 year olds.

Not ONE of them is even in the beginning of their primes. They will all grow into their primes TOGETHER!!!!

The leafs, on the other hand, have a large part of their "retooled core" already well into their primes. I'm not saying they're currently over the hill. But by the time our young players and prospects hit their primes, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, etc. will be starting to lose a step.
It's a mess. A flat out mess. It's the kindergartner approach to rebuilding a team.

 

[ConnorTO]

Not ONE of them is even in the beginning of their primes. They will all grow into their primes TOGETHER!!!!

what is this EA sports ?

 

[DoubleDouble*]

1. Draft picked a player who won't make the team like Ritchie might
2. Let Kulimen walk
3. Lost Raymond
4. Lost McClement
5. Polak is good but lost offense
6. No big trade

I think we slide before we raise

Unfortunately for tank nation, Kulemin, Raymond and McClement were all addition by subtraction. Kulemin in particular became a fan favourite, but he has always been overrated. He has terrible hands, and his defence is only mediocre. McClement was awful for us last year, and Raymond just isn't the guy we need in a top 6 with Kessel Kadri, and Lupul all playing the "skill only" roles.