Tanking vs Winning thread

[Intangibos]

Can we have a thread for the merits of tanking versus winning/playoffs? Allowing the tank and playoff threads to be for people in agreement is fine, but I think there is a place for people to argue about it as well.

I hope this is allowed and we can continue the discussion despite it seemingly going around in circles.

So, how about those losses guys? Management and stuff...

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[PuckMunchkin]

Its not a bad idea in theory.

But I dont really think the discussion is going anywhere.

 

[Intangibos]

Its not a bad idea in theory.

But I dont really think the discussion is going anywhere.

Maybe, but despite all of us believing that we just can't stop biting.

Eating pizza and cheetos every day isn't going anywhere positive (see Virtanen, Jake - 2016), but f*** veggies m8

Anyway, even if it doesn't really lead anywhere, it's probably pragmatic. People are going to do it, or some people at least want to, so it's a containment thread. We've limited the scope of the other containment threads so we should probably have a containent thread for where the chemicals meet and violently react.

 

[DomY]

There's like 3 or 4 containment threads now, and I don't really live in any of them.

I'm team "let's just see how things go and enjoy the ride." If we get wave upon wave of injuries we will obviously lose more games, and then I'd shift to team sell-off and team "lets see what we have in Dahlen, OJ, Lind, MacEwan, Chatfield, and Sautner."

If Boeser comes back and dominates with EP, I'd be OK with them being dragged along to a 20-30th place finish, as long as it looks like their games are improving and the games stay fun. I wouldn't add any rentals at the deadline but maybe would move around some short term pieces for longer term ones. Think moving Baertschi, Pouliot, del Zotto, Granlund, or Hutton. These are also the type of deals that define a GM. No amount of additional losing will get rid of GMJB faster. I'm neutral on the GMJB front, but I will judge him greatly on the new Boeser deal and the trades to get secondary pieces to surround the core in place to date.

The team doesn't have the depth or goaltending to do anything but tread water. But it's been a fun 25% of the season. I'm cheering for individual growth in our players and hoping our management can unload some redundant pieces into something with more impact in the future.

 

[lawrence]

I will take a Stanley cup any day over jack Hughes.

Btw your poll says cup now! So I chose that.

 

[Intangibos]

I will take a Stanley cup any day over jack Hughes.

Btw your poll says cup now! So I chose that.

It's more about trying to win the cup now, not actually succeeding

 

[lawrence]

It's more about trying to win the cup now, not actually succeeding

We need to start somewhere now it’s the time. That said if things get ugly I’m back on team tank in February.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Im fascinated by what the pro-tank crowd believe will be the competitive advantage of the Canucks vs others.

There are only a small handful of team that can realistically win the cup and half dont even make the playoffs.

So how are the Canucks planning on out-tanking the other tanking teams. Because if it is a viable strategy and non-contenders might as well be tanking thats a lot of tanking teams.

 

[M2Beezy]

OPs question is too extreme. Moderation is more important then two crazy sides going head to head. I was all for the tank but was so nice to cheer for some wins but now with the injury problems causing mounting losses Im leaning more towards a tank but then again I cheer when we score so Im kinda in the middle i suppose

 

[Intangibos]

OPs question is too extreme. Moderation is more important then two crazy sides going head to head. I was all for the tank but was so nice to cheer for some wins but now with the injury problems causing mounting losses Im leaning more towards a tank but then again I cheer when we score so Im kinda in the middle i suppose

Well it was mostly in jest so that everyone could get the picture of the thread. It's just meant for general discussion on the full range of tanking-competing including everything in between.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I’ll just cheer for the team and hope the young players keep improving. I don’t see the point in cheering for them to lose as I don’t have any impact on the results anyways. I’m just a fan.

As for what I think will be best for the team, I think at least one more high draft pick is needed as we need a top winger or defenseman and ideally would have two first round picks. Being out of the playoff race by the TDL would probably best so that we can be a seller.

But still going to cheer on the team and just not get upset whether they win or lose. Lots of good news stories like EP, Horvat, Hutton and Virtanen. Looking forward to seeing if they can keep it up and watching some of our prospects in our system.

 

[pettersson]

Honestly, not a part of either.

Both options are good. That being said, our chances at Hughes.. low.. our chances of making the playoffs... Still low but higher than Hughes.

I'm fine with just watching what we got, going with the flow.

 

[Intangibos]

Honestly, not a part of either.

Both options are good. That being said, our chances at Hughes.. low.. our chances of making the playoffs... Still low but higher than Hughes.

I'm fine with just watching what we got, going with the flow.

Why do you think our chances at making the playoffs are higher than Hughes?

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Why do you think our chances at making the playoffs are higher than Hughes?

In order to make the playoffs you have to beat out 16 teams. In order to get Hughes you have to "beat" out 16 teams. Plus lottery.

 

[NoShowWilly]

For me it is just sit back and see how it goes. Bored of the tank. Not cause it is wrong. It just isn't a fun way to watch the team I love.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Why do you think our chances at making the playoffs are higher than Hughes?

If we finish 5th worst our odds are one in twelve. If we finish 10th worst then it’s one in 33. Realistically it’s not happening.

 

[Intangibos]

If we finish 5th worst our odds are one in twelve. If we finish 10th worst then it’s one in 33. Realistically it’s not happening.

In order to make the playoffs you have to beat out 16 teams. In order to get Hughes you have to "beat" out 16 teams. Plus lottery.

You have to beat out 16 teams to make the playoffs. 16 teams have to beat you to be in the running for Hughes. Do you think it's completely unreasonable to say we have a <5% chance of making the playoffs? Keep in mind that there are likely more teams that are unquestionably better teams than us that are locks for playoffs while there are likely fewer teams that are unquestionably worse than us. We're almost certainly more likely to be a bottom 10 team than we are to be a top 10 team, for example.

This is a which is more likely question with two options.
A doesn't have to be likely to be more likely than B if B is extraordinarily unlikely.

 

[Jack Burton]

Well this should be interesting

 

[tantalum]

Winning the cup now would be ideal and everyone would take it. But it also isn't even close to being realistic. It's simply not going to happen.

As I've said before, when the game is on I cheer for the canucks. I hope they do well. In that moment I hope they do well. I expect they will lose more often than playoff teams and as such I expect the management to realize that early and pull a plug on a season and, well, intentionally tank. It's not time to try to bolster a lineup IMO. I have zero confidence this management can build around promising young stars to be successful.

Management doesn't have the ability to recognize when to pull the plug so through it all my belief is that, unfortunately, this team will unintentionally tank (they enter play tonight 24th in Pt%). And in doing so I want to see the damage this management group does be minimized. I want ownership forced into action. I want to see changes at the GM and AGM positions ASAP. But the ownership has drank the kool-aid...unfortunately for them (and us) it's Jonestown flavour.

I will still cheer the goals. Jeer the bad plays and be happy when they play a good game and win. Some may not think the two views can be held at the same time. I believe they can be.

 

[DL44]

Where's the "Both of the above" option?

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

I think winning is better for the players actually in the NHL like Pettersson, Goldobin, Hutton, etc. Tanking is better for the long term. Tanking this year would be better long term, but winning is better for Pettersson's development, so which is better long term? Better developed Pettersson or Jack Hughes? I'm not sure.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I got a better slogan than Lose for Hughes.

No Winning - Fire Benning

 

[tantalum]

I think winning is better for the players actually in the NHL like Pettersson, Goldobin, Hutton, etc. Tanking is better for the long term. Tanking this year would be better long term, but winning is better for Pettersson's development, so which is better long term? Better developed Pettersson or Jack Hughes? I'm not sure.

Ice time is best for their development. They’ll get that.

 

[DL44]

I got a better slogan than Lose for Hughes.

No Winning - Fire Benning

Pretty sure he some serious rope for a couple of years now.
Linden-free, owners on board with his vision, injury excuse the owners will likely accept, contract extension.

Probably has the duration of his current contract prior to an ultimate Aqualini re-evaluation. Should continue to be a pretty grinding, frustrating couple more yrs for you yet.

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

Ice time is best for their development. They’ll get that.

I also subscribe to the belief that winning helps prospects develop. I think that's why RNH never really turned out that impressive, and why McAvoy has developed so quickly. I could be off base here though.