Tanking vs Winning thread
- Thread starter Intangibos
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Scholarships
10 Piece
- Apr 3, 2016
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RobertKron
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2007
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xtra
Registered User
The obvious answer for anyone that’s a canuck fan is the cup now.
I’d question the logic of anyone that thinks benning can deliver that cup.
There are quite a few of us that are team tank only to have benning moved from the position of gm. Benning seems like a nice enough person but I have no faith in him bringing us a cup or even to consistent deep playoff threat status.
If we bottom out this year and benning is removed depending on the off season moves I’d be happy to switch to a more pro-winning. Stance
I’d question the logic of anyone that thinks benning can deliver that cup.
There are quite a few of us that are team tank only to have benning moved from the position of gm. Benning seems like a nice enough person but I have no faith in him bringing us a cup or even to consistent deep playoff threat status.
If we bottom out this year and benning is removed depending on the off season moves I’d be happy to switch to a more pro-winning. Stance
Benning will be fired in due time. I dont think he will be the GM when we are competitive as he has shown a lack of ability in judging and trading for Pro level NHL players
However his amateur scouting and the core players he has brought in has been great.
If we win the cup in the next 10 yrs then surely his fingerprint will be all over the blueprint with guys like EP, Boeser, Hughes etc on the team.
Much like George Mcphee with the Caps eventhough he was fired before they won.
xtra
Registered User
Great is hyperbole,
he also picked Virtanen over ehlers/nylander
OJ over Tkachuk
Lind over Hague
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
I'm not sure about that. How many more seasons that are played out exactly the same are the Aquilini's willing to put up with? More bad contracts, more losses, and not nearly enough draft picks for a team that's supposedly rebuilding (even though they really aren't).
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
He's a GM, not an amateur scout. The Canucks can fire Benning and still retain the amateur scouts (almost all of whom were here before Benning anyway).
And no, the track record at the draft under Benning certainly has not been great. It's been about on par with what you would expect given the Canucks draft pick position during his tenure. It's just we're not used to having a team be this bad for this long. For some it's been 30-40 years. For others they've never been through this prolonged period at the basement of the NHL standings.
Nobody bats .1000 nobody.
He could have chosen Glass/Vilardi over Pettersson ..or drafted roslovic , juulsen , larsson instead of Boeser.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Let's also be honest, the Canucks are not going to win the Stanley Cup this year. The thread really should be "push for playoffs this year or tank this year"
There also needs to be some important context to the pro-tank side which is seriously lacking. The pro-tank side isn't continuing because all we want is to draft 1st overall every year. While we recognize the importance of building a stable of elite prospects (something the Canucks still lack), our pro-tank agenda goes much deeper than that. We also hope to see a management regime change. For some of us it's been obvious this team needs new management since the news broke about the return on the Kesler trade. For others it took a bit more time. However, for all of us this remains a major issue that the pro-tank side hopes to see rectified. We recognize that the Canucks will not win under this regime because of all of their short-comings. We also recognize that the damage this regime is currently doing will delay the Canucks from rising to the top even with a new management regime. It will not be easy for anyone to come in here and manage the cap with the plethora of bad contracts Benning has saddled the team with, while also working on retaining some of the top players this team has received by virtue of picking so high in the NHL draft every year (as a result of this team being awful under Benning).
The sooner the organization rids itself of this kakistocracy, the better.
There also needs to be some important context to the pro-tank side which is seriously lacking. The pro-tank side isn't continuing because all we want is to draft 1st overall every year. While we recognize the importance of building a stable of elite prospects (something the Canucks still lack), our pro-tank agenda goes much deeper than that. We also hope to see a management regime change. For some of us it's been obvious this team needs new management since the news broke about the return on the Kesler trade. For others it took a bit more time. However, for all of us this remains a major issue that the pro-tank side hopes to see rectified. We recognize that the Canucks will not win under this regime because of all of their short-comings. We also recognize that the damage this regime is currently doing will delay the Canucks from rising to the top even with a new management regime. It will not be easy for anyone to come in here and manage the cap with the plethora of bad contracts Benning has saddled the team with, while also working on retaining some of the top players this team has received by virtue of picking so high in the NHL draft every year (as a result of this team being awful under Benning).
The sooner the organization rids itself of this kakistocracy, the better.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
That's not a valid defense to someone who you claim is "great" at drafting, when that person misses on two blatant picks.
All im saying is if Benning is going to get crucified for Virtanen OJ then he also better get praised for Pettersson Boeser.
Or other way around is fine too. Blame scouting department for OJ Virtanen and not give Benning credit for Pettersson Boeser.
I also think the owner is or was a bigger problem than Benning.
Ive been fine w. Our progress and direction since clear rebuild started w. Burrows trade
Having the Sedins prevented a full rebuils.
I do think we need to do it properly tho which is insulate the youth w. Veterans. Shelter the youth from tough minutes. And win some games so a losing culture doesnt take over.
You can tell were starting to turn and guys are really starting to develop.
Pip
Registered User
Isn’t it too early to say if Glass/Vilardi are poor picks?
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
I suggest you re-read the post you responded to.
Except there is evidence that Benning overruled his scouts to pass on Nylander and pick Virtanen. That blunder is on Benning.
There is also evidence that his scouts pushed for Boeser and Pettersson. No direct evidence that Benning wanted someone other than Pettersson, but given the evidence naming Delorme, Gradin, and Brackett as guys who pushed for Pettersson and Linden's comments about how it wasn't a slam dunk pick and there was plenty of discussion, one wouldn't be too off base to suggest Benning wasn't initially for that pick. Again, I do admit that takes some speculation based on what's out there.
But sure, I'll give you that. Credit Benning for ultimately listening to his scouts in those two cases. Great.
Now the OJ pick, where we have almost no information about who made the pick. Blame Benning and blame the scouts. It was an awful pick. It was a pick that almost no one else makes. He deserves huge blame for this.
Finally the Hughes pick. It was the right pick at the time, and it sounds like that was a John Weisbrod pick, who I also loathe. Very little information about this pick too though, but from the sounds of it about how close he is with the Hughes family I don't think it's a stretch to suggest he really went to bat for this pick. Credit where credit is due there.
Benning sold ownership on the idea that he could turn the team around quickly, so Benning is as much to blame as anyone. Also, the Sedins never prevented a full rebuild. I don't understand how anyone can think this way. It's really just you making up a lame excuse for the sake of it because there's nothing else for you to grab on to. The Sedins are 2 players. That's it. They're players. They aren't involved in management, there's no contractual stipulation that prevents the Canucks from doing a rebuild. Stop making up excuses.
Newsflash: this team has a losing culture because of what Benning has done. None of the veterans he brought in have contributed to anything positive with this team.
Sure it is. Are you under the impression that great scouting GMs hit om every pick?
The draft is a mystery...thats also why i think player development is more important that draft position in the bigger picture.
Great drafting GMs that have missed.
Yzerman- passed on Debrincat twice to draft howden and hajek..also passed on Steele and Kyrou..
Poile - drafted fiala over Larkin.
Etc..
Because they havent made the NHL and Pettersson has??
Sure but dont move the goal post and change the rules of this game and say OJ
was a bad pick.
Exactly. You get two home runs with Boeser and Pettersson in that time period then that can turn a franchise around in a hurry. Getting a franchise center without one of the top three picks is really tough to do.
Benning has set a pretty decent foundation in terms of young players. The next step of building a contender will be much more difficult and we will need a better overall GM to get there. I think this is probably Benning’s last full year here.
Melvin
21/12/05
Not sure I would count Boeser has a homerun just yet unless every first round pick that turns into an NHL player is a homerun.
I think it's too early to say Vilardi and Glass were bad picks.
I also think OJ was a bad pick and he's tracking poorly. Also, you're moving the goal posts comparing a 2016 draft pick with two 2017 draft picks on playing in the NHL yet.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
It’s not an excuse when you override your scouts like Benning did with the Virtanen pick over Nylander, or when you have a top 5 pick and pass on a consensus too 5 prospect in that draft for a player who hasn’t lived up to expectations while the player you passed on has gone on to become a star.
Jets are batting like .900 with their total first round picks and have batted 100% with their top-10 picks and surprise surprise, they're one of the best teams in the league.
Are you seriously trying to criticize the drafting of the Tampa Bay Lightning and Nashville Predators right now?
THE Green Man
Registered User
We agree that Benning has set up the next GM with some young core players, but also completely hamstrung said replacement with bad contracts to have to work around. Sadly I think EP40's emergence and the easy cop out of injuries & bad scheduling will save his job this year. Next year will be playoff appearance or he's fired. We need him gone so badly but the more I look at how this season has played out, I would be shocked if he's gone this summer. We probably have to be on the pro tank wagon for this and next season to get the change that we are seeking.
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