Player Discussion Talbot

[GMofOilers]

The team in front of him is garbage, you're not going to get a good save percentage with one of the worst defensive groups in the NHL and the lowest scoring one in the NHL.

He still makes several huge stops per game, something Dubnyk was not doing. It's just not enough ... this team is just garbage right now.

This is a bottom 5 D corps right now. On top of that the forwards on this team give the puck away and blow coverage every 2nd/3rd shift taking risks because they cannot score to save their lives. No goalie is magically saving that.

This team is significantly better then the 2015 oilers, yet Talbot played to his career average.

Ok then........

 

[Soundwave]

This team is significantly better then the 2015 oilers, yet Talbot played to his career average.

Ok then........

Except they're not.

The D-corps right now is pretty close to as bad as the Eakins era Oilers ... Klefbom is Fayne, Sekera is out ... factoring in those two, the d-corps is one of the 5 worst in the NHL. Easily.

The offence is scoring even less than the Eakins era Oilers and the frustrated forwards are responding in immature ways by taking risks and blowing defensive coverage constantly through out a game.

They ARE the 2015 Oilers right now, just with Connor McDavid on it, and one player only does so much in hockey and even he is cheating like crazy because he is frustrated. He threw away that St. Louis game.

 

[Little Fury]

910 save perectange is not very good. Even on the 27th place oilers Talbots first year here he had close to his career average numbers 917 and 2.55 gga

This year is 903 and 3.1 gga

Career is 920 and 2.39

Quit trying to defend him. He hasn’t been good enough. Rather poor actually.

Those numbers look bad, but keep in mind that the PK has been a tire fire and goalies don't have much sway over that. At ES, he's at .916 this year, which is a dip from his pretty astounding .929 in the same game state as last year but not quite as bad as the unadjusted numbers make it look. Sure he's let in a couple of howlers and has been inconsistent overall, but the PK and the lack of run support from the players in front of him is a major issue. And so, for that matter, is the lack o fa competent back up the coach can trust to step in when things are getting out of hand or when the starter needs a night or two off to get his head straight.

 

[GMofOilers]

Except they're not.

The D-corps right now is pretty close to as bad as the Eakins era Oilers ... Klefbom is Fayne, Sekera is out ... factoring in those two, the d-corps is one of the 5 worst in the NHL. Easily.

The offence is scoring even less than the Eakins era Oilers and the frustrated forwards are responding in immature ways by taking risks and blowing defensive coverage constantly through out a game.

They ARE the 2015 Oilers right now, just with Connor McDavid on it, and one player only does so much in hockey and even he is cheating like crazy because he is frustrated.

2015 was coached by TM, our leading scorer had 65 points. Rookie Drai had 50 points.


Our defense was rookie nurse, Schultz, Fayne, Klefbom which is equal to Klefbom this year, Reinhardt, Davidson

Still Talbot has a 915 and 2.5 gga

So you must not be remembering correctly.

 

[GMofOilers]

Those numbers look bad, but keep in mind that the PK has been a tire fire and goalies don't have much sway over that. At ES, he's at .916 this year, which is a dip from his pretty astounding .929 in the same game state as last year but not quite as bad as the unadjusted numbers make it look. Sure he's let in a couple of howlers and has been inconsistent overall, but the PK and the lack of run support from the players in front of him is a major issue. And so, for that matter, is the lack o fa competent back up the coach can trust to step in when things are getting out of hand or when the starter needs a night or two off to get his head straight.

Honestly your PK is as good as your goalie usually. Most important PK’er on the ice. There is always going to be a 2 on 1 on the ice on the PK, so you need to make some saves.

 

[Soundwave]

2015 was coached by TM, our leading scorer had 65 points. Rookie Drai had 50 points.


Our defense was rookie nurse, Schultz, Fayne, Klefbom which is equal to Klefbom this year, Reinhardt, Davidson

Still Talbot has a 915 and 2.5 gga

So you must not be remembering correctly.

They're both crappy teams, why even bother splitting hairs.

Is this is or is this not one of the five worst d-groups in the NHL? It is? OK. Well, you're not getting a high goalie save percentage right off the hop right there. Sorry but that's kinda how it works in the NHL, you have a bad d-corps and you tend to allow more goals.

Throw in cheating forwards and you compound the problem significantly.

The only reason the Oilers even have a prayer at a playoff turnaround right now is because Talbot carried them to that 3-1-1 road trip, where McDavid + Draisaitl showed up to play for one shift and win the game in 3-on-3.

 

[GMofOilers]

Those numbers look bad, but keep in mind that the PK has been a tire fire and goalies don't have much sway over that. At ES, he's at .916 this year, which is a dip from his pretty astounding .929 in the same game state as last year but not quite as bad as the unadjusted numbers make it look. Sure he's let in a couple of howlers and has been inconsistent overall, but the PK and the lack of run support from the players in front of him is a major issue. And so, for that matter, is the lack o fa competent back up the coach can trust to step in when things are getting out of hand or when the starter needs a night or two off to get his head straight.

I want to add to my other post also on the PK.

Some how our PK is top 5 on the road, where Talbot has been pretty decent, and at home it’s bottom of the league, along with the goaltending stats.

Points out my previous post about the goalie being the most important PK’er

 

[GMofOilers]

They're both crappy teams, why even bother splitting hairs.

Is this is or is this not one of the five worst d-groups in the NHL? It is? OK. Well, you're not getting a high goalie save percentage right off the hop right there. Sorry.

Throw in cheating forwards and you compound the problem significantly.

The only reason the Oilers even have a prayer at a playoff turnaround right now is because Talbot carried them to that 3-1-1 road trip, where McDavid + Draisaitl showed up to play for one shift and win the game in 3-on-3.

Your telling me not to expect 910 save percentage with this current team. Talbot had a 915 with the 2015 oilers, and a 903 with current oilers.

Like I said, he’s been poor!

 

[Soundwave]

Your telling me not to expect 910 save percentage with this current team. Talbot had a 915 with the 2015 oilers, and a 903 with current oilers.

Like I said, he’s been poor!

Don't expect miracles. Team is icing this as their d corps on a nightly basis

Nurse Larsson
Fayne Benning
Russell Gryba/Aivutu

And quite frankly Nurse-Larsson are overrated by this board too, they make their own share of mistakes, they just look way more competent than the tire fires below them.

This is one of the 5 worst D-groups in the NHL right now. Now add in on top of that the worst scoring forward group in the NHL.

 

[Little Fury]

Honestly your PK is as good as your goalie usually. Most important PK’er on the ice. There is always going to be a 2 on 1 on the ice on the PK, so you need to make some saves.

That's not the case. General rule is SV% drops by 4-5% on the PK across the board no matter who is in net because the quality of chances against is going to be higher than at ES (more one timers on cross ice feeds and redirections in high danger locations). When you look at the kind of PP goals the Oilers are allowing, I have a hard time pinning them on Talbot.

I want to add to my other post also on the PK.

Some how our PK is top 5 on the road, where Talbot has been pretty decent, and at home it’s bottom of the league, along with the goaltending stats.

Points out my previous post about the goalie being the most important PK’er

So is your theory that he forgets how to play goal especially shorthanded at home? Or could it be that it's just randomness at work?

 

[belair]

Agreed that Talbot's struggles are the pinnacle of the Oilers' problems currently. When you don't have a goaltender you can rely on night on, night out it sets a bad precedent for the rest of your team mentally. If he continues to struggle into December I'm not sure we have the option of letting Broissoit run with it without putting a nail in the coffin of the season. Aside from going out and grabbing a veteran and running a three head goalie monster, the whole season lies in the hands of Cam Talbot.

 

[Soundwave]

Agreed that Talbot's struggles are the pinnacle of the Oilers' problems currently. When you don't have a goaltender you can rely on night on, night out it sets a bad precedent for the rest of your team mentally. If he continues to struggle into December I'm not sure we have the option of letting Broissoit run with it without putting a nail in the coffin of the season. Aside from going out and grabbing a veteran and running a three head goalie monster, the whole season lies in the hands of Cam Talbot.

Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Oilers have one of the worst d-groups in the NHL right now and the lowest scoring team overall. That should be a recipe for success. Get it together Talbot! You're messing up our amazing team that GM ChiaGenius has put together.

 

[belair]

Yes, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Oilers have one of the worst d-groups in the NHL right now and the lowest scoring team overall. That should be a recipe for success.

None of it is good for us, but when your goalie isn't making the saves required for you to stay in hockey games, it hurts your team mentally. Had Talbot not allowed numerous opening period goals this season? Those goals can be deflating. Devan Dubnyk 2.0.

 

[Soundwave]

None of it is good for us, but when your goalie isn't making the saves required for you to stay in hockey games, it hurts your team mentally. Had Talbot not allowed numerous opening period goals this season? Those goals can be deflating. Devan Dubnyk 2.0.

Except I notice he DOES make 1-2 huge stops per game. The team then continues to make mistakes and continues to not be able to score and finally the dam breaks.

That St. Louis game for example, he robbed Tarasenko twice ... the game is over when the Oiler still cannot score again and again and then McDavid gives the puck away to Schenn on a 2-on-1.

Team just isn't very good, even if Talbot stakes them they will often lose because they will still continue to make mistakes/blow coverage and not score goals when the goalie makes a big save for them.

Dubnyk was different because he'd let in weird goals and at weird times that totally broke the team's back. This version of the Oilers cannot win even when their goalie gives them a big save because they can't on most nights score more than 2 goals to begin with.

And here's a mind blowing concept for Oiler fans ... when your defence sucks ... you're going to lose a lot of games. Name me five worse D-corps than what the Oilers are icing right now. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[Little Fury]

None of it is good for us, but when your goalie isn't making the saves required for you to stay in hockey games, it hurts your team mentally. Had Talbot not allowed numerous opening period goals this season? Those goals can be deflating. Devan Dubnyk 2.0.

If your team is good and not struggling to put the puck in the net, the odd bad goal doesn't matter. Talbot let it some ugly one's last year too. DD's problem, like Talbot today, is mainly that the team in front of him sucked, not that they were "deflated."

 

[Soundwave]

Making 1-2 huge stops a game is one thing ... Talbot is generally doing that. Asking to be bailed out 5-6 times a game though ... is where you are getting into a ridiculous ask for a goalie. Maybe he can do that once every 3-4 games, but when you are asking this every night ... forget it.

 

[frag2]

None of it is good for us, but when your goalie isn't making the saves required for you to stay in hockey games, it hurts your team mentally. Had Talbot not allowed numerous opening period goals this season? Those goals can be deflating. Devan Dubnyk 2.0.

Right now, Talbot and Klefbom are like the bad versions of Dubnyk and Petry when they were playing for us

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Making 1-2 huge stops a game is one thing ... Talbot is generally doing that. Asking to be bailed out 5-6 times a game though ... is where you are getting into a ridiculous ask for a goalie. Maybe he can do that once every 3-4 games, but when you are asking this every night ... forget it.

How about not giving up the first goal on goals like the Roussel goal and the Sobotka goal? Is that too much to ask?

 

[Soundwave]

How about not giving up the first goal on goals like the Roussel goal and the Sobotka goal? Is that too much to ask?

Even in those two cases, the team was in both of those games, and even had the lead in one of them.

And Talbot did make some big stops after that, like I said in the St. Louis game he robbed Tarasenko on two chances point blank.

This team simply cannot defend or score. It's kind of a problem when you can't do either. You tend to lose hockey games. It's a radical concept to grasp, I know.

They are among the lowest scoring teams in the NHL. The d-corps they have been icing this year is one of the worst in the league easily. Does anyone deny either of these points?

 

[GMofOilers]

Even in those two cases, the team was in both of those games, and even had the lead in one of them.

And Talbot did make some big stops after that, like I said in the St. Louis game he robbed Tarasenko on two chances point blank.

This team simply cannot defend or score. It's kind of a problem when you can't do either. You tend to lose hockey games. It's a radical concept to grasp, I know.

They are among the lowest scoring teams in the NHL. The d-corps they have been icing this year is one of the worst in the league easily. Does anyone deny either of these points?

Oilers record last year scoring first
2016-17 Edmonton Oilers Situational | Hockey-Reference.com

Look at their record when scored on first, pretty similar to this year. The difference Talbot not making the saves early.

 

[Soundwave]

Oilers record last year scoring first
2016-17 Edmonton Oilers Situational | Hockey-Reference.com

Look at their record when scored on first, pretty similar to this year. The difference Talbot not making the saves early.

Here's a mind blowing concept -- don't blow your defensive coverage early in games if you don't want to get scored on.

It's not Talbot's fault the team is never ready to play a game. We see it constantly ... Klefbom gets burned on multiple odd man rushes, so what does he do the very first play of another game? Pinches and gives up a 2-on-1.

At what point does the D deserve some blame?

They also never have the lead because they can't freaking finish ever. They had multiple chances in that St. Louis game to be up 2-0 or 3-1 after 1 period. Did they? Of course they don't.

Kassian has had 2 breakaways in the past 2 games or so and like 6 total this year. Hasn't scored on one of them. No finish.

Talbot is a good goalie BUT the team has to hold up their end of the bargain for him to do his thing. They are not holding up their end of the bargain.

There are goalies who can weather a flat out bad team, but you are asking for a Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek level of goaltender ... playing like shit offensively AND defensively for 20 games and then turning around and asking your goalie to make up for it all is not asking for "decent goaltending". It's asking for Hasek/Roy tier goaltending and those players are extremely rare.

Talbot is good if the team plays half decent, but if they're not going to defend AND they can't score either, he is not going to bail a team out of a 20 game stretch of that garbage.

 

[GMofOilers]

Here's a mind blowing concept -- don't blow your defensive coverage early in games if you don't want to get scored on.

It's not Talbot's fault the team is never ready to play a game. We see it constantly ... Klefbom gets burned on multiple odd man rushes, so what does he do the very first play of another game? Pinches and gives up a 2-on-1.

At what point does the D deserve some blame?

They also never have the lead because they can't freaking finish ever. They had multiple chances in that St. Louis game to be up 2-0 or 3-1 after 1 period. Did they? Of course they don't.

Kassian has had 2 breakaways in the past 2 games or so and like 6 total this year. Hasn't scored on one of them. No finish.

Talbot is a good goalie BUT the team has to hold up their end of the bargain for him to do his thing. They are not holding up their end of the bargain.

There are goalies who can weather a flat out bad team, but you are asking for a Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek level of goaltender ... playing like **** offensively AND defensively for 20 games and then turning around and asking your goalie to make up for it all is not asking for "decent goaltending". It's asking for Hasek/Roy tier goaltending and those players are extremely rare.

Talbot is good if the team plays half decent, but if they're not going to defend AND they can't score either, he is not going to bail a team out of a 20 game stretch of that garbage.

The numbers don’t lie. Make some saves and this team to get a goal and the team wins. Just like last year.

You can’t gift wrap goals like Talbot been doing and expect the team to win.

Edit I want to add

You say so your self not to gift wrap anything in the first period, but its ok for the Blues to? Their goalie made saves, ours gives the puck up short handed for a goal against.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The numbers don’t lie. Make some saves and this team to get a goal and the team wins. Just like last year.

You can’t gift wrap goals like Talbot been doing and expect the team to win.

Edit I want to add

You say so your self not to gift wrap anything in the first period, but its ok for the Blues to? Their goalie made saves, ours gives the puck up short handed for a goal against.

Next year is a contract year. He will bounce back.

 

[McFlyingV]

Here's a mind blowing concept -- don't blow your defensive coverage early in games if you don't want to get scored on.

It's not Talbot's fault the team is never ready to play a game. We see it constantly ... Klefbom gets burned on multiple odd man rushes, so what does he do the very first play of another game? Pinches and gives up a 2-on-1.

At what point does the D deserve some blame?

They also never have the lead because they can't freaking finish ever. They had multiple chances in that St. Louis game to be up 2-0 or 3-1 after 1 period. Did they? Of course they don't.

Kassian has had 2 breakaways in the past 2 games or so and like 6 total this year. Hasn't scored on one of them. No finish.

Talbot is a good goalie BUT the team has to hold up their end of the bargain for him to do his thing. They are not holding up their end of the bargain.

There are goalies who can weather a flat out bad team, but you are asking for a Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek level of goaltender ... playing like **** offensively AND defensively for 20 games and then turning around and asking your goalie to make up for it all is not asking for "decent goaltending". It's asking for Hasek/Roy tier goaltending and those players are extremely rare.

Talbot is good if the team plays half decent, but if they're not going to defend AND they can't score either, he is not going to bail a team out of a 20 game stretch of that garbage.

The problem is Talbot has allowed a weak first goal in at least 20% of the games this season, which is a huge issue. If scoring first really is that important to a win, then thats potentially 8 points he's pissed away, which at this point in the season is the difference between sitting comfortably in a playoff spot and being on the verge or falling out of the race altogether. The defence have had their yips this year, but Talbot has been bad in his own right. Far too many weak goals going in this year that he should never ever let in.

And I know someone's going to say something about the Oilers being fragile if they can't recover from that etc. etc., but I'm almost positive that league wide the team who scores first wins significantly more than the team who gets scored on first.

 

[McFlyingV]

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