Player Discussion T-Mac "We had some very high end players..." (Ebs/Hopkins)

[shoop]

The issue is that it is unfounded. I dont think RNH is happy with some of the results he has had, but at 23 he isnt a finished product as a player. There is still alot of upside there and his results arnt all that bad compared with the majority of the players in the NHL.

Dissing on RNH has got to be the most ridiculous rant I have heard from Oiler fans ever.

That isn't a reasonable comparable. The majority of players in the NHL aren't making $6M per year.

My issue is with his aav and term.

He's making 1C money, or very good 2C money and on this team really is the 3C.

 

[Throttlehead]

Unfounded? Are you kidding. Nuge is regressing as a player in every way. This isn't a scenario where a player got limited opportunity early in their career and then once given more offensive opportunities flourished. This is a player who from day one had every offensive opportunity gifted to him playing with the best offensive players on the team. Now, there are two centermen who are much better at every aspect of hockey who are getting those offensive opportunities and Nuge is predictably crumbling.

"Predictably"? What else does your crystal ball say on other players?

 

[Throttlehead]

That isn't a reasonable comparable. The majority of players in the NHL aren't making $6M per year.

My issue is with his aav and term.

He's making 1C money, or very good 2C money and on this team really is the 3C.

We will likely trade him, in my opinion Mclellan has stole his identity and not found one for him yet, 1C, 2C, 3C, winger, PP, not PP.

 

[Oil Dude]

That isn't a reasonable comparable. The majority of players in the NHL aren't making $6M per year.

My issue is with his aav and term.

He's making 1C money, or very good 2C money and on this team really is the 3C.

Take the money aspect out for a second and look at his point totals right now. I don't really think he is too far off pace what 2nd line centers are scoring at in the NHL right now. Correct me if I am wrong though by all means.

 

[shoop]

Take the money aspect out for a second and look at his point totals right now. I don't really think he is too far off pace what 2nd line centers are scoring at in the NHL right now. Correct me if I am wrong though by all means.

You can't remove money from the equation.

Sure if there was no cap and Katz was willing to pay $6M for a 3C then by all means you keep Nuge. He could be a great 3C.

That's just not the current situation though.

 

[Grey Poupon*]

You know what I noticed about Eberle? He loses literally every single board battle. The man has no compete. Is he skilled? Sure. But he doesn't create chances for himself or his teammates. He needs others to create his chances. (At least this season). This is the principal reason Oiler fans are fed up with him.

You know what I noticed about Nuge? He forgot how to make an easy pass. He always tries to thread the needle though 3 guys towards a player that's being covered. It's like he lost his on-ice awareness. It's no wonder why he's a -11 (by far the team worst) on a team where McDavid is a +16. Just an awful player this year. If the rumours about Jordan Stall for Nuge are true (Mentioned on Gregor today), please pull the trigger. Apparently, he and Rod Bridn'Amour are friendly during the offseason and do charitable work together. That's a guy that needs a fresh start. Good riddance.

 

[Oil Dude]

You can't remove money from the equation.

Sure if there was no cap and Katz was willing to pay $6M for a 3C then by all means you keep Nuge. He could be a great 3C.

That's just not the current situation though.

Except , he has been our 2nd line center almost all season. Drai is our #1 RW.

Having said that if there is truth to Jodan Stall for RNH then I say do it.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

The Staals have been in the league for 14 years. How can people still think it's spelled 'Stall'?

 

[shoop]

Except , he has been our 2nd line center almost all season. Drai is our #1 RW.

Having said that if there is truth to Jodan Stall for RNH then I say do it.

In a vacuum you absolutely do that trade.

In the bigger picture, i.e. operating in a cap world, I'm not sure if you do Staal for Nuge. Definitely an upgrade, but this team does need another 1/2C. Drai can be the 2C. They need a 1 RW instead of paying $6M to Eberle and being forced to play Drai out of posiiton.

 

[Grey Poupon*]

The Staals have been in the league for 14 years. How can people still think it's spelled 'Stall'?

Autocorrect. I have a Disney keyboard that only knows how to spell Gunnar's name. Sorry, sir.

 

[Oil Dude]

In a vacuum you absolutely do that trade.

In the bigger picture, i.e. operating in a cap world, I'm not sure if you do Staal for Nuge. Definitely an upgrade, but this team does need another 1/2C. Drai can be the 2C. They need a 1 RW instead of paying $6M to Eberle and being forced to play Drai out of posiiton.

I think the more centers the better, it sure doesn't look like Drai is struggling where he is.

 

[Throttlehead]

I think the more centers the better, it sure doesn't look like Drai is struggling where he is.

Agreed, not to mention you move Eberle and RNH (Draisaitl back to C) suddenly you have zero RW.

I honestly wish they would try RNH with McDvid for a game.

 

[shoop]

I think the more centers the better, it sure doesn't look like Drai is struggling where he is.

Nobody says struggling. It's a cap world. Why use a 2C on a great contract as your 1 RW when you have a RW making $6M a year?

Agreed, not to mention you move Eberle and RNH (Draisaitl back to C) suddenly you have zero RW.

I honestly wish they would try RNH with McDvid for a game.

Moving Eberle and RNH has to get a 1 RW back. Your 'scenario' makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Throttlehead]

Nobody says struggling. It's a cap world. Why use a 2C on a great contract as your 1 RW when you have a RW making $6M a year?



Moving Eberle and RNH has to get a 1 RW back. Your 'scenario' makes no sense otherwise.

Who is the #1, #2 and #3 RW right now?

 

[shoop]

Who is the #1, #2 and #3 RW right now?

Sorry. Misread your post. Lemme think about that.

edit: ebs/slepy/kass? Kinda gross...

 

[Throttlehead]

Sorry. Misread your post. Lemme think about that.

edit: ebs/slepy/kass? Kinda gross...

If you move Draisaitl to center (Nuge gone), and you move Eberle, you are left with Puljujarvi. Not to mention we will still need a 3rd line center. I see one of those two going this summer but not both.

In fact the hate Eberle is getting is quite baffling, he is having a very down year for reasons unknown, if he had 5 - 7 more goals (he has been snake bitten), you would see the crying stop. For example last game he had 5 shots, no GVA, no glaring mistake and yet people claim he had a terrible game. It seems many are Eberle focused. If you watch ANY player and look for negatives constantly, you will certainly find many. I fault the coach a lot on not being able to get some of these guys going and not using their strengths. If you want certain players to only concentrate on their negatives, they may lose their positives. Eberle has been one of the best SO players in the league, the coach won't even use him....baffling, that should make his confidence go through the roof.... right. Nuge is looking like a scared bunny playing right now, he is showing zero creativity and we all know he is better than that. The constant line mixing is also baffling.

 

[Asiaoil]

No need to move Eberle as he has done what he needs to do defensively to play on a winner. Offensively he needs to quit the trademark moves that everyone knows and get less predictable - but that side of the game comes much more easily to him so I'm pretty confident he'll "get it". Only 2 years left on his deal makes a difference as well. So I see keeping Ebs and adding JP back into the mix next year with Kass, Pitlick and Slepy.

As for RNH - less confident. He doesn't do a lot of things well that we are missing at center (RH shot, faceoffs, shutdown defense, physical play) and his offensive time has been taken by McDavid and Drai and he's never getting that back. So yeah I'd deal him but we need a real 3C in his prime in return as our window to win opens next fall. Staal in CAR is a bit older but has the right experience and we could probably swap him for RNH - same with Sutter in VAN. I see one of those deals happening if we deal RNH.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Agreed, not to mention you move Eberle and RNH (Draisaitl back to C) suddenly you have zero RW.

I honestly wish they would try RNH with McDvid for a game.

Only issue with that is you then have three top-6 LW and one top-6 RW

It's possibly one of Caggulia or Slepyshev could fit

 

[frag2]

"Predictably"? What else does your crystal ball say on other players?

You watch the nuances to his [Nuge's] game and how he approaches it, especially offensively, and you can see why this was predicted by so many. I said 3 years ago we'd be lucky he'd break past his "56 pt ceiling" and so many jumped on me.

I don't know if it's regressed or if he just simply didn't develop anymore. What you saw in Rookie Nuge is what you got...except this time, there's less time and space for him to do his "thing"

Eberle's "skillset" IMO is more 1 dimensional but when he's actually on, he scores because that's all he can really do aside from GA. Nuge can't score nor really defend as well as many tout.

 

[McArthur]

If you move Draisaitl to center (Nuge gone), and you move Eberle, you are left with Puljujarvi. Not to mention we will still need a 3rd line center. I see one of those two going this summer but not both.

In fact the hate Eberle is getting is quite baffling, he is having a very down year for reasons unknown, if he had 5 - 7 more goals (he has been snake bitten), you would see the crying stop. For example last game he had 5 shots, no GVA, no glaring mistake and yet people claim he had a terrible game. It seems many are Eberle focused. If you watch ANY player and look for negatives constantly, you will certainly find many. I fault the coach a lot on not being able to get some of these guys going and not using their strengths. If you want certain players to only concentrate on their negatives, they may lose their positives. Eberle has been one of the best SO players in the league, the coach won't even use him....baffling, that should make his confidence go through the roof.... right. Nuge is looking like a scared bunny playing right now, he is showing zero creativity and we all know he is better than that. The constant line mixing is also baffling.

this might sound dumb, but life happens outside the hockey world. from what I understand, Jordan was quite the grandmas boy... and he either lost one or both grandparents that he lived with when he played for the pats. I can remember when it first happened he was a shell of his former self, and over the last year+ he's been slowly bouncing back.

As for RNH, he doesn't even look like he's trying. but in the same stroke, he averages the 3rd highest ice time for a forward, so maybe he's tired? I don't see RNH getting a ton of points, but it would be nice if his line could come out a plus and not a minus.

We need a heavy, faceoff winning, center that can shut down on the 3rd line. But we needed that going into this roadtrip. I'm not so sure its going to happen until the offseason.

 

[FlameChampion]

this might sound dumb, but life happens outside the hockey world. from what I understand, Jordan was quite the grandmas boy... and he either lost one or both grandparents that he lived with when he played for the pats. I can remember when it first happened he was a shell of his former self, and over the last year+ he's been slowly bouncing back.

As for RNH, he doesn't even look like he's trying. but in the same stroke, he averages the 3rd highest ice time for a forward, so maybe he's tired? I don't see RNH getting a ton of points, but it would be nice if his line could come out a plus and not a minus.

We need a heavy, faceoff winning, center that can shut down on the 3rd line. But we needed that going into this roadtrip. I'm not so sure its going to happen until the offseason.

Not sure how anyone can criticize RNH of not trying. He works as hard as any forward on this team (at least in terms of on-ice). The problem with RNH is that he is just not all that effective on the ice. Whether its him vs the role that coaching has him in vs his wingers not doing enough I cant say.

 

[bucks_oil]

If you move Draisaitl to center (Nuge gone), and you move Eberle, you are left with Puljujarvi. Not to mention we will still need a 3rd line center. I see one of those two going this summer but not both.

In fact the hate Eberle is getting is quite baffling, he is having a very down year for reasons unknown, if he had 5 - 7 more goals (he has been snake bitten), you would see the crying stop. For example last game he had 5 shots, no GVA, no glaring mistake and yet people claim he had a terrible game. It seems many are Eberle focused. If you watch ANY player and look for negatives constantly, you will certainly find many. I fault the coach a lot on not being able to get some of these guys going and not using their strengths. If you want certain players to only concentrate on their negatives, they may lose their positives. Eberle has been one of the best SO players in the league, the coach won't even use him....baffling, that should make his confidence go through the roof.... right. Nuge is looking like a scared bunny playing right now, he is showing zero creativity and we all know he is better than that. The constant line mixing is also baffling.

I'm with you. I actually think I've seen a lot more maturity and team play out of Eberle this year than ever before. And I was watching for it... how would he respond to Hall being gone... getting married... etc, etc. To me he is a guy who defensively has been doing the right things... he's even started throwing the occasional hit... making the safer pass. All the things coaches have been screaming at him for years... and yet, the offense is gone... so many posts, so many missed nets... this is a player doing the right things but doubting himself.

The playoffs will be a fresh slate for him (and for RNH)... it doesn't surprise me at all that they are both the players "doing the right thing" but struggling personally as they finally get close to their goal. They have been (with Hall) the faces of the franchise and the faces of the failure... darn right they are carrying a lot of weight on their shoulders.

 

[McDNicks17]

Eberle at least has a heartbeat and seems to be trying to improve on his weaknesses.

RNH has been flat lining for three seasons(outside a 20 game stretch where Eberle and Pou shocked it back into rhythm).

 

[thadd]

I have not taken a good hard look at ice time and PP time for Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins this year, compared to others, but is there something there as to why they are producing poorly? My gut instinct is that they are not being forcefed massive top line minutes and PP time now, but I could be way off.

They were getting PP minutes earlier in the year but they were not capitalising. Ice time especially on the PP is earned.

You can't just keep throwing them out there hoping that they're gonna start producing like 6M players. It's the perfect recipe for missing the playoffs for yet another year.

 

[frag2]

Eberle at least has a heartbeat and seems to be trying to improve on his weaknesses.

RNH has been flat lining for three seasons(outside a 20 game stretch where Eberle and Pou shocked it back into rhythm).

Bingo with Eberle. At least he even acknowledges he's been bad - http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/23/eberle-responding-following-coachs-call-out

Nuge...nope solid period here folks, nothing to talk about