Player Discussion T-Mac "We had some very high end players..." (Ebs/Hopkins)

thadd

Oil4Life
Jun 9, 2007
26,727
2,735
Canada
T-Mac suggested that some of our high end players didn't show up tonight.

Is it possible that they aren't high end players?

Is it possible that possibly that Hopkins and Eberle at this point are incredibly overrated and are past the point of no return.

If you're a GM or fan of any team other than the Oilers how do you view these guys and their contracts?

Every time Hopkins or Eberle score 1 goal or 2 points in a night there are a good dozen people who've obviously had a few too many beers before coming on the computer to say "Oh... what's that you guys saying about Ebs?! Look at dat! LOOK at dat! Now he be on pace for 47 points!"

Being 100% serious here. As each week goes by my standards for an Ebs/Hopkins trade slowly wither away.

Am an idiot for seeing them as plugs at this point?

Eberle is 6 million dollar right winger who averaged 64 points over 2 seasons between 2013-2015. Correct me if I'm remembering things wrong but isn't that when Hopkins, Eberle and Pouliot had chemistry? Or was that Hall-Hopkins-Eberle throughout the majority of those 2 seasons?

Pouliot... 4M dollar player who isn't even a plug anymore. He's a hole in the line-up when in the line-up. I'm guessing it would be incredibly hard to find 5 Oil fans that wouldn't be happy to see him picked up in the expansion draft or traded for future considerations aka NOTHING.

And last we have Hopkins. Former 1st overall, babyfaced smart boy who can't figure out how to provide any offense. In the time that Eberle was averaging 64 points, Hopkins was averaging 56. He's now on pace for 39 points. So he was putting up enough points to be considered a viable 2nd line center but at this point you flat out can't justify putting him in the 2nd line C slot.

How many times have we seen our lines changed this year? It's not out of the coach's stupidity. He keeps giving Eberle the chance to put up points with Mcdavid but it doesn't work and we've always gotta to back to having Drai and McDavid on 1 line, moving Hopkins to #2 C and we end up hoping that the 3rd or 4th line can put up some points because we'll be pretty confident that the 2nd line isn't going to put up any points.

At the beginning of this year I was convinced that we'd see Eberle gone by the start of the 17/18 season and Hopkins by the start of the 18/19 season but I'm now at the point where I see the management feeling some level of desperation to get rid of the both of them before the start of the 17/18 season.

No way we're getting a Larson for either of them.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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"very highly paid players" would have been a proper phrase if he was talking about those guys.
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
37,678
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Both have proved they could be above average NHL forwards in the past. We've seen these kids play for the last 5 seasons now and they haven't ever been this bad. I'll admit they've been bad this year, but I definitely don't want to sell low on them.

In my opinion we let go/forced to let go of Schultz when he had that one really bad year. But the offensive potential was always there and we saw it from him before he started making bad defensive mistakes. He's now lighting the league up and is not the low-effort player we saw here in his worst and final year.

I view Eberle and Nuge the same way. We know Eberle's got hands, can make nifty passes, and can finish, but for whatever reason it's just not working out for him this year. We saw Nuge's vision and above average 2 way play before too on this team and also during the World Cup. We need to be patient so that they can figure out how to get their game back to a level we've seen before.
 

MessierII

Registered User
Aug 10, 2011
27,831
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It's the biggest problem with the team hands. You have your two highest paid, longest serving player who both wear A's failing miserably in every role you give them. Eberle can't get it going as the top line right wing or as a secondary guy. Nuge can't be relied on to center a successful top 6 line and can't even thrive as a defensive specialist. I said at the end of last year I want them all gone. Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Yak. Half way there.
 

McAsuno

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
26,633
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Edmonton
Could of meant Draitsatl and Lucic as well.

Sure, but Drai has been consistent this year and puts up the points. Lucic didn't score tonight but he was noticeable. Eberle was beyond invisible again and RNH is just RNH. There's literally nothing in his game that makes me say wow anymore. One of them is obviously going to get traded and I won't be surprised either. Both players got carried hard by Taylor Hall. In defense of Eberle though, he's been playing better lately.
 

LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
26,027
13,053
Draisaitl is very high end and he didnt show up tonight..

RNH and Ebs havent shown up all year so maybe he wasnt talking about those...

or.... maybe he was talking about Talbot... literally did nothing tonight

(my attempt to not make this another bash nuge+ebs thread... we got plenty of those already)
 

Del Preston

Registered User
Mar 8, 2013
63,171
78,954
He shouldn't have to repeatedly say this. It's been happening since last season.
 

Glass Eyes

Registered User
Jan 2, 2017
546
0
How about Todd stops using his crutch and playing Leon with McDavid on RW. Completely decimates every other line. Honestly I'd take both Maroon and Drai off his line.

Lucic-McDavid-Eberle
Maroon-RNH-Drai
Caggiula-Lander-Slepyshev
Khaira-Letestu-Kassian

Or RNH replaces Lander and Kassian replaces Drai or Slepyshev. It's not that hard Todd. McDavid will dominate despite his linemates.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,520
18,800
How about Todd stops using his crutch and playing Leon with McDavid on RW. Completely decimates every other line. Honestly I'd take both Maroon and Drai off his line.

Lucic-McDavid-Eberle
Maroon-RNH-Drai
Caggiula-Lander-Slepyshev
Khaira-Letestu-Kassian

Or RNH replaces Lander and Kassian replaces Drai or Slepyshev. It's not that hard Todd. McDavid will dominate despite his linemates.

Lucic-McDavid-Eberle?????????????????

1253886001_office-no.gif


DId we give up completely on Lucic-Drai-Slep already? Try Lucic-Drai-Nuge or something. Just please god no more Lucic-McDavid-Ebs. The best hockey Nuge played this year was during a blender session where I'm pretty sure he was on Drai's wing. Then the next game Nuge was back to being the C of his line and he was overwhelmed by responsibility again and sucked with Drai. I don't know what universal law is forcing McLellan to never play Nuge on the wing except by accident, but we need to kick that law in the nuts ASAP.
 

Mc5RingsAndABeer

5-14-6-1
May 25, 2011
20,184
1,385
Eberle is 6 million dollar right winger who averaged 64 points over 2 seasons between 2013-2015. Correct me if I'm remembering things wrong but isn't that when Hopkins, Eberle and Pouliot had chemistry? Or was that Hall-Hopkins-Eberle throughout the majority of those 2 seasons?

You're remembering correctly. Pouliot-RNH-Ebs tore up the league towards the end of the season. Hall-RNH-Ebs did play a decent amount together too though.

No way we're getting a Larson for either of them.

Definitely not. If we could've gotten anything close, Hall would still be here.
 

cbzblaze

Registered User
Nov 26, 2015
952
1
Calgary
Pouliot has been horrendous but when he actually tries (which is once in a blue moon) he's a pretty good player. When he's playing good he actually makes a difference.
Nuge consistantly works hard, but even when he's playing really good, what does he really bring?
If Eberle can't play top line, he's a tough fit elsewhere in the lineup.

I've defended Nuge for a very long time, but either change his role on the team or move him. It's pure frustration watching him play super passive, supposed 2 way hockey.
 

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,241
7,418
Pouliot has been horrendous but when he actually tries (which is once in a blue moon) he's a pretty good player. When he's playing good he actually makes a difference.
Nuge consistantly works hard, but even when he's playing really good, what does he really bring?
If Eberle can't play top line, he's a tough fit elsewhere in the lineup.

I've defended Nuge for a very long time, but either change his role on the team or move him. It's pure frustration watching him play super passive, supposed 2 way hockey.

Hence the new "Yak" analogy lately :laugh:

The problem is he'll have a couple of nice stick checks/defensive plays and everyone starts praising him like he's a defensive dynamo.
 

oilwave

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
1,323
196
Edmonton
Pretty sure he wasn't talking about either of those players in that comment at all. We had lots of legitimately high end players who didn't show up tonight.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,520
18,800
Pretty sure he wasn't talking about either of those players in that comment at all. We had lots of legitimately high end players who didn't show up tonight.

Later in the interview he talked about guys that are finally getting a chance to be in the playoffs and aren't showing they are ready for it. Think it became much more obvious who he was talking about after that.
 

48g90a138pts

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
10,391
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Going down that 6,6,6 million contract route I think has bitten the Oilers in the butt. Management thought they were smart signing these guys long term. Now there's no real incentive for these guys to bust their butt for a big contact. Put it on cruise control and let McDavid and the rest of the crew who care do all the chopping and carrying.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

Life is better with no expectations.
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Apr 3, 2016
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RNH is 3rd line C material at this point and Eberle cannot play without cheating to offence meaning he can't play an offensive game under the system TMac has designed - who even stated as much in the middle of Eberle's (first) slump when he said Eberle has to find a way to score in this system.

Time to move Eberle this off season ( don't think the return will be very high at the deadline and too many teams in cap hell ) and give RNH another season to earn his $6M, as well C are much harder to come by than wingers.
 

snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
Dec 28, 2015
55,135
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Then go add a grown man who can play 3C, and make some moves for more depth up front and on D.

We have no time for this soft ****ing **** anymore. Our team isn't built that way, and our fans won't stand by it. We want McDavid, Drai, Klef, Talbot, etc. surrounded by big, strong men who will battle (i.e. Kassian type players)
 

shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
8,333
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Edmonton
RNH is 3rd line C material at this point and Eberle cannot play without cheating to offence meaning he can't play an offensive game under the system TMac has designed - who even stated as much in the middle of Eberle's (first) slump when he said Eberle has to find a way to score in this system.

Time to move Eberle this off season ( don't think the return will be very high at the deadline and too many teams in cap hell ) and give RNH another season to earn his $6M, as well C are much harder to come by than wingers.

If a team is willing to take Eberle without the Oilers retaining salary than it does matter what the return is. Even the fabled player to be named is worth it in that case.

Keeping Nuge is likely gonna happen because of the term left on his contract.

Thank Heaven's no one has brought up the crap about "selling at lowest value" with either of these guys. There is no upside with either guy. Get rid of them and their losing attitudes.
 

A91

Oilers + Real Madrid
May 21, 2011
6,944
2,221
Edmonton
Ederle has always been a complimentary player, his stats dont surprise me all that much i was one of the guys who wanted to trade him when his value was sky high during his 2nd and 3rd NHL season.

RNH on the other hand.. guy was legit. He drove lines, he was the chess master on ice. Not sure what happened to him. Ultimately I think its a lack of drive. He's happy being a 2-way 40-50 point C.
Look at a player like Schiefele, a student of the game, his drive is what made him the player he is today, not his natural skill. If RNH decides he wants to be the best version of himself I think he can be a very high end player, however, the more time passes the less I see that happening.

One positive to change the subject is a guy like Darnell Nurse. He has so much love and passion for hockey, like Schiefele he's a student of the game. Has always been known as a gym rat, his drive is unbelievable I am so excited to see what he can become.
 

snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
Dec 28, 2015
55,135
62,145
Ederle has always been a complimentary player, his stats dont surprise me all that much i was one of the guys who wanted to trade him when his value was sky high during his 2nd and 3rd NHL season.

RNH on the other hand.. guy was legit. He drove lines, he was the chess master on ice. Not sure what happened to him. Ultimately I think its a lack of drive. He's happy being a 2-way 40-50 point C.
Look at a player like Schiefele, a student of the game, his drive is what made him the player he is today, not his natural skill. If RNH decides he wants to be the best version of himself I think he can be a very high end player, however, the more time passes the less I see that happening.

One positive to change the subject is a guy like Darnell Nurse. He has so much love and passion for hockey, like Schiefele he's a student of the game. Has always been known as a gym rat, his drive is unbelievable I am so excited to see what he can become.

Agreed. I'm probably the biggest Nurse supporter on this board, he's going to be a ****ing animal for us when he's 25ish.

He's an athletic freak, intelligent (OHL Scholastic Player of the Year), physically gifted, and good bloodlines. Dad was a pro football player, his sister is one of the best female basketball players in the world. Darnell has an insane competitive drive and he's McDavid's best friend. Nurse isn't going anywhere.

When Nurse was healthy we were a top 5 PK team in the NHL. He was a beast on the PK and his puck handling improved drastically after working with Adam Oates this summer. I thought Nurse before he was hurt was arguably our best D man. His underlying analytics this year certainly help corroborate the eye test.

Nurse is a mainstay in our future.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
Jan 30, 2010
29,641
16,958
Northern AB
Going down that 6,6,6 million contract route I think has bitten the Oilers in the butt. Management thought they were smart signing these guys long term. Now there's no real incentive for these guys to bust their butt for a big contact. Put it on cruise control and let McDavid and the rest of the crew who care do all the chopping and carrying.

Luckily one was traded away to the DEVILs.

Unfortunately they then replaced that with yet another 6 contract.. so 6,6,6 is back again.





We need a young priest and an old priest...

:)
 

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