Post-Game Talk: Survey says...

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

They must not think XO or Jensen are an upgrade over the 5 regulars and I guess Marchy is being given first dibs on the chance to grab his cheese.

I wouldn't agree with that. I'd rather have Ouellet here than Kindl, Marchy, and Smith.

 

[Frk It]

Smith and Kindl are wildly consistent, even still at 28 and 26. They have their games when they chip in some offense on the PP, and then they have their games where they are complete dumpster fires in their own end.

Marchenko as an NHL'er looks underwhelming in every way possible to me. I'm really not seeing what the deal is with him.

Ouellet on the bottom pair makes the most sense. He thinks the game the quickest and best out of the bunch, and would be the safest bet in my opinion.

Jensen could work, but that's a complete crap-shoot at this point. At the NHL level not really sure what is there other than the obvious skating ability.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Smith and Kindl are wildly consistent, even still at 28 and 26. They have their games when they chip in some offense on the PP, and then they have their games where they are complete dumpster fires in their own end.

Marchenko as an NHL'er looks underwhelming in every way possible to me. I'm really not seeing what the deal is with him.

Ouellet on the bottom pair makes the most sense. He thinks the game the quickest and best out of the bunch, and would be the safest bet in my opinion.

Jensen could work, but that's a complete crap-shoot at this point. At the NHL level not really sure what is there other than the obvious skating ability.

Ouellet also clearly has potential to be a legitimate top 4 defenseman too, I'd rather give him a chance with his growing pains that use these players closing in on 30 who still have tons of growing pains themselves.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

I wouldn't agree with that. I'd rather have Ouellet here than Kindl, Marchy, and Smith.

I agree with you, was just trying to rationalize management's decision.

 

[Frk It]

Ouellet also clearly has potential to be a legitimate top 4 defenseman too, I'd rather give him a chance with his growing pains that use these players closing in on 30 who still have tons of growing pains themselves.

Ouellet may never develop much offense, or be a super gritty guy. But he will make the right decision under pressure. He will not get lost in his end. He is very reliable, and on top of that I think there is some room for growth. He reminds me a bit of Dekeyser, but smaller and not as good skating.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Smith and Kindl are wildly consistent, even still at 28 and 26. They have their games when they chip in some offense on the PP, and then they have their games where they are complete dumpster fires in their own end.

Marchenko as an NHL'er looks underwhelming in every way possible to me. I'm really not seeing what the deal is with him.

Ouellet on the bottom pair makes the most sense. He thinks the game the quickest and best out of the bunch, and would be the safest bet in my opinion.

Jensen could work, but that's a complete crap-shoot at this point. At the NHL level not really sure what is there other than the obvious skating ability.

Ouellet struggled with the forecheck when he was called up. This is a team that already has enough trouble dealing with forechecks, as witnessed by Green and Quincey both being destroyed in one game.

I'd prefer to give Jensen a shot. He's a very good skater and he's right handed. I don't know what his potential offensive contributions would be at the NHL level but it can't be any worse than Kindl, Marchenko or Smith.

 

[Flowah]

Ouellet struggled with the forecheck when he was called up. This is a team that already has enough trouble dealing with forechecks, as witnessed by Green and Quincey both being destroyed in one game.

I'd prefer to give Jensen a shot. He's a very good skater and he's right handed. I don't know what his potential offensive contributions would be at the NHL level but it can't be any worse than Kindl, Marchenko or Smith.

He also seemed to do better with the forecheck during preseason. Of course that was against mixed competition but still. Can't really understand why he's never been given the kinds of chances that Ouellet and Marchenko have been given.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It's also possible that Jurco's growth was stunted by playing in the NHL too soon leading to him now being a healthy scratch most nights, that Nyquist doesn't ever find his current form without starting that season in Grand Rapids, that Mrazek could have had his confidence shattered completely by being rushed in the NHL duty too soon, that Sheahan would have developed more of an offensive game playing in the AHL and that those "depth" guys would also have gotten us to the playoffs and with their veteran experience might have led us to a cup.

The baseless speculation game is fun.

Nobody knows if Mrazek or any of the other players would be better or worse if they were put on another development path. Pretending to know otherwise is foolish regardless of your opinion.

It's not baseless speculation. Those guys were all called up and were integral to keeping the playoff streak alive. Tootoo, Cleary, Eaves, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and Emmerton are all pretty much out of the league. I realize lots of people like to eat up Ken Holland's over-ripe philosophy in pavlovian fashion. Some of us realize there aren't any hall of famers keeping prospects off the team; no it's scrubs who are no better than the prospects. FACT: when the playoff streak was on the line Ken Holland proved that the "men's league" line was total ********.

Let's turn the tables, would Jakub Kindl actually be a legit NHL'er if he was brought up when he was 19 and nearly made the team? Did over-ripening him destroy him? Truth be told I honestly couldn't give a single, solitary ****: you either sink or swim at the NHL level. I know lots of people are gonna say O SO U WANNA BE THE OILERZ?!?! The difference is the only 19 year old the Wings have played in 20+ years in Dylan Larkin and it's because there are no hall of famers to block him from the roster.

Shehan is a better version of Justin Abdelkader; Jurco is about the equivalent of Tomas Kopecky. Both guys will have long NHL careers so long as they are utilized properly. Kindl will be out of the league as soon as the Wings eventually are forced to move on, which will probably happen when all the d-men who are getting "over-ripe" in the AHL are forced into the NHL due to being eligible to passing through waivers.

 

[Run the Jewels]

He also seemed to do better with the forecheck during preseason. Of course that was against mixed competition but still. Can't really understand why he's never been given the kinds of chances that Ouellet and Marchenko have been given.

Plus Jensen is willing to lay out an open ice hit which is something very few players on this team are capable of doing. I'm not saying he's the answer, I just think he can potentially address some of the very obvious deficiencies on this defense.

 

[Actual Thought*]

It's not baseless speculation. Those guys were all called up and were integral to keeping the playoff streak alive. Tootoo, Cleary, Eaves, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and Emmerton are all pretty much out of the league. I realize lots of people like to eat up Ken Holland's over-ripe philosophy in pavlovian fashion. Some of us realize there aren't any hall of famers keeping prospects off the team; no it's scrubs who are no better than the prospects. FACT: when the playoff streak was on the line Ken Holland proved that the "men's league" line was total ********.

Let's turn the tables, would Jakub Kindl actually be a legit NHL'er if he was brought up when he was 19 and nearly made the team? Did over-ripening him destroy him? Truth be told I honestly couldn't give a single, solitary ****: you either sink or swim at the NHL level. I know lots of people are gonna say O SO U WANNA BE THE OILERZ?!?! The difference is the only 19 year old the Wings have played in 20+ years in Dylan Larkin and it's because there are no hall of famers to block him from the roster.

Shehan is a better version of Justin Abdelkader; Jurco is about the equivalent of Tomas Kopecky. Both guys will have long NHL careers so long as they are utilized properly. Kindl will be out of the league as soon as the Wings eventually are forced to move on, which will probably happen when all the d-men who are getting "over-ripe" in the AHL are forced into the NHL due to being eligible to passing through waivers.

Sheehan is nothing like Abby. At all. Jurco is like Kopecky light with more suck.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Shehan is a better version of Justin Abdelkader;

good one

 

[JPE123]

He also seemed to do better with the forecheck during preseason. Of course that was against mixed competition but still. Can't really understand why he's never been given the kinds of chances that Ouellet and Marchenko have been given.

I really don't understand why they never have given Jensen a shot. Two good camps these past two years. He's a righty, elite skater and can deliver a hit. Blash has gotta know him well, wonder what it is?

 

[Frk It]

Ouellet struggled with the forecheck when he was called up. This is a team that already has enough trouble dealing with forechecks, as witnessed by Green and Quincey both being destroyed in one game.

I'd prefer to give Jensen a shot. He's a very good skater and he's right handed. I don't know what his potential offensive contributions would be at the NHL level but it can't be any worse than Kindl, Marchenko or Smith.

Can I get a list of the guys who don't struggle with the forecheck on the back end?

Hell the guy on our top pair doesn't even handle it well. I'd say relatively speaking he's pretty good at it. His positioning is also a lot better than March's IMO.

 

[Frk It]

I really don't understand why they never have given Jensen a shot. Two good camps these past two years. He's a righty, elite skater and can deliver a hit. Blash has gotta know him well, wonder what it is?

Holland won't give up on Kindl or Smith, and outside of his skating Jensen is nothing special.

 

[14ari13]

Why stop there? Clearly we have not had elite goaltending in a long time. Mrazek should have been up with the big club after 2009, taking over after Osgood.

Clearly if he is playing well now he could have done so 5 years ago too.

I think Howard had 1-2 seasons where he provided elite goaltending. He also had 1-2 season where I consider him our MVP.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Good news on the Brad Richards front, He wont need surgery on his ailing back and is expected to miss 1-2 weeks.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

They must not think XO or Jensen are an upgrade over the 5 regulars and I guess Marchy is being given first dibs on the chance to grab his cheese.

Bruh it's ok. This management cannot evaluate dman at all. They think that Ericsson is a top 2 dman. Holland probably tries to get Keith for Ericsson straight up.

I bet Seabrook is a #4 on this team


It took blash under 10 games to realize that Ericsson doesn't belong on the top pair tho, So hes probably the only one who can

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I think Howard had 1-2 seasons where he provided elite goaltending. He also had 1-2 season where I consider him our MVP.

Howard has had 2 great years, 1 above average year. 2 or 3 bad years.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Can I get a list of the guys who don't struggle with the forecheck on the back end?

Hell the guy on our top pair doesn't even handle it well. I'd say relatively speaking he's pretty good at it. His positioning is also a lot better than March's IMO.

It's pertinent because decision-making is supposed to be his one strength. He doesn't add offense, he's not a great skater, and he's not really physical. So if you struggle against a forecheck you aren't really able to use what is supposedly your best asset. At least Jensen gives you a righty - we only have Marchenko right now with Green out - and a guy who can skate the puck out of harm's way. I don't want to oversell Jensen, my main point is I'd like to at least see how he looks in real NHL games. The Wings have given Ouellet and Marchenko a decent amount of starts in Detroit and they've both added little if anything to our awful defense.

 

[odin1981]

Missing two defenseman and we still aren't calling up Jensen or XO yet. What gives with this guy?

I hope it is they are just trying to build value on Kindl/Smith and such. But I wish Xo and Jensen got some games in. They need the NHL exp to grow there game.

I just found out we won cause of the post game thread. I checked out at the end of the 2nd cause I thought it was a lost cause. First two periods where painful to watch. Though 2 points don't always have to be pretty. Glad they got it.

Sucks that both KFQ and Green are hurt. Really haven't been lucky so far with the D health wise so far this year. 4-3-1 with a combination of Dats, Green, DDK, is really good. Our 2nd pairing has been gutted due to injuries so far. Wish we could move Big Rig down to #4. He played his best on the second pairing. But with so many #3-4 d-men hurt we can't.

 

[BinCookin]

Holland won't give up on Kindl or Smith, and outside of his skating Jensen is nothing special.

Ya if you just want to throw out "skating" as if its 1 of 10 facets. What can helm do if he couldnt skate?... He is not even an NHL player without his skating.

Jensen's skating is ELITE in comparison to M and XO.

 

[Run the Jewels]

good one

Solid analysis. You are really bringing it to the HF forums.

If you are so inclined look at both guys performance in the NHL - ie the only league that matters - when they were the same age. Also consider the quality of the roster when Abdelkader first came up and we were legit Cup contenders and the past couple years when Sheahan came up and we have been nothing more than first round cannon fodder.

If you are inclined to do so I will be more than happy to engage you in debate. Otherwise I think I'm done here.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Howard has had 2 great years, 1 above average year. 2 or 3 bad years.

Which 2 or 3 years do you consider his bad years?

 

[DanZ]

Solid analysis. You are really bringing it to the HF forums.

If you are so inclined look at both guys performance in the NHL - ie the only league that matters - when they were the same age. Also consider the quality of the roster when Abdelkader first came up and we were legit Cup contenders and the past couple years when Sheahan came up and we have been nothing more than first round cannon fodder.

If you are inclined to do so I will be more than happy to engage you in debate. Otherwise I think I'm done here.

What analysis did you bring to the table? You literally made a statement with nothing backing it up.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Solid analysis. You are really bringing it to the HF forums.

If you are so inclined look at both guys performance in the NHL - ie the only league that matters - when they were the same age. Also consider the quality of the roster when Abdelkader first came up and we were legit Cup contenders and the past couple years when Sheahan came up and we have been nothing more than first round cannon fodder.

If you are inclined to do so I will be more than happy to engage you in debate. Otherwise I think I'm done here.

sorry, you gave me the impression that you were talking in the present tense. I'm sure Sheahan NOW (along with a lot of other guys) is better than how Abdelkader USED TO BE. I just don't see how it's relevant to anything.