Transfer: Summer Transfers part 4

[The Abusement Park]

But Ronaldo has support and Messi has had to play with bums his entire career so...

How dare you talk about Pique, Puyol, Dinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Biscuits, Henry, Villa, Suarez, Neymar, Alba, Rakitic, Abidal, Eto’o, Ibra, and Dembele like that.

 

[les Habs]

Ronaldo or Messi: Which player influences their club's success more? - The Stats Zone

Stats show there's barely any difference. In fact, Ronaldo scores a bigger percentage of his goals when his teams are drawing or losing, but the margins are 1-2% anywhere. It's so tight that giving any sort of conclusion about how one stat pads more than the other would be ridiculous.

Maybe people are influenced by Ronaldo's obnoxious, over-the-top celebrations, I don't know.
But the actual numbers definitely don't support any serious claim how he stat pads more than Messi - in fact, it's the other way around, though by a completely insignificant margin.

(Note: these stats are from 15-16, so BEFORE Ronaldo won two more CLs, scoring a ridiculous number of goals while doing it, and putting 10 past Bayern, Atleti and Juve in 5 games in 2017)

...

I realize my defending Ronaldo might come off as fanboyish, but it honestly isn't.
Like I said, Messi's the GOAT for me, but Ronaldo - instead of being treated as a #2 all-time - is treated here like a peasant who only gets trophies and individual acclaims because of stat padding and tap ins.

It honestly is fanboyish just like it is every time. It's also laughable considering the lack of context that "piece" has. I find it amazing someone would actually post that much less use it as some sort of argument. So many holes there.

• Only considers goals. Sure this is in response to a "stat padding" discussion, but look at the title of the piece.
• Doesn't factor in their respective positions/roles.
• How many of those goals were from the spot?
• Doesn't even mention the difference in shots.
• Only considers El Clasico stats when they were playing against each other yet it doesn't factor in say a certain CL Final.

But Ronaldo has support and Messi has had to play with bums his entire career so...

Yeah, because that's been the narrative all these years and not the other way around. In all honesty, do you think before you post?

 

[S E P H]

There isn’t a topic in the world that this board can’t evolve into the same old Messi-Ronaldo argument. It’s amazing to watch.

Just wait until it devolves into FFP of the teams who have Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah, because that's been the narrative all these years and not the other way around. In all honesty, do you think before you post?

It absolutely has been the narrative on this board. This isn't a debate worth getting into with you because of the bias involved.

To be clear, the argument is simple: Ronaldo does more than just score goals. Messi is better in almost every way, but that doesn't mean that Ronaldo isn't very good in areas other than goal scoring though. It's almost as silly as people who blame Messi for his lack of international success. It would be a lot nicer if everyone could just appreciate both of these players without slinging hate.

 

[les Habs]

It absolutely has been the narrative on this board. This isn't a debate worth getting into with you because of the bias involved.

That's absolute bullshit. It's been a narrative, but the overriding narrative for years has been "Xavi and Iniesta". And you're right, it's not worth getting into a debate with me because the bias involved on your part leads you to make posts like this.

 

[Evilo]

Goal scorer and nothing else who also has 200 career assists and the most assists in CL history. Of course they're mostly just setting up tap ins for his teammates...but then again that goes against his selfish demeanor (why set up a tap in when you can just shoot)...

Who knows? It's probably true. I'm probably ignorant for looking at footage of Ronaldo doing things other than score.

His build up, playmaking and interplay are ignored because of his goal scoring and selfishness because they're not at an elite level, but that doesn't mean they aren't still at a high level. Something about the forest for the trees.

Something about being worthy of a Ballon d'Or is the discussion.
Ronaldo is not that calibur of BdO winners in every single of these categories.

 

[Evilo]

Ronaldo or Messi: Which player influences their club's success more? - The Stats Zone

Stats show there's barely any difference. In fact, Ronaldo scores a bigger percentage of his goals when his teams are drawing or losing, but the margins are 1-2% anywhere. It's so tight that giving any sort of conclusion about how one stat pads more than the other would be ridiculous.

Maybe people are influenced by Ronaldo's obnoxious, over-the-top celebrations, I don't know.
But the actual numbers definitely don't support any serious claim how he stat pads more than Messi - in fact, it's the other way around, though by a completely insignificant margin.

(Note: these stats are from 15-16, so BEFORE Ronaldo won two more CLs, scoring a ridiculous number of goals while doing it, and putting 10 past Bayern, Atleti and Juve in 5 games in 2017)

...

I realize my defending Ronaldo might come off as fanboyish, but it honestly isn't.
Like I said, Messi's the GOAT for me, but Ronaldo - instead of being treated as a #2 all-time - is treated here like a peasant who only gets trophies and individual acclaims because of stat padding and tap ins.

I don't know if you can still find the posts, but I used a whole season as an example a few years or so back. It's wasn't even close.

 

[Evilo]

Who didn't recognize Ronaldo's talents/achievements?

Really, some people can't read properly.
The discussion was about stat padding late in games a clear feature of Ronaldo's game. Someone said it was useless, which I countered with "yes, it helped him to BdO".

Can't see ANYTHING controversial to this except for Ronaldo fanboyish, because it's beyond obvious.

 

[YNWA14]

Something about being worthy of a Ballon d'Or is the discussion.
Ronaldo is not that calibur of BdO winners in every single of these categories.

That's not what was said at all.

I agree that it's his goalscoring that makes him a BdO caliber player though; that's just not all he does on the field.

Also, again, I'm not a Ronaldo fanboy. I don't praise everything he does, and I don't like the teams he plays for. I just respect how good he is and how he got there. I don't think he's the best player ever, nor do I think he's on the level of Messi (though to be fair, nobody is). I think his long term achievements and his consistently high level of play over such a long span warrants inclusion in the top 5, but that's not based on talent.

 

[Evilo]

Context was obviously the BdO. Ronaldo does nothing else than scoring.

 

[KJS14]

I'd like it on record that I already said I respect Ronaldo's talent very much and I think he's clearly an all-time great player. All I pointed out is that he enjoys his stat-padding goals a lot more than most other players (which Corto even hinted at before me btw).

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think stat padding is something that every all time great goal scorer did. I can’t think of any all time great that didn’t want to score as many goals as he could every game. Just seems like a weird “negative” that only affects Ronaldo.

 

[Evilo]

I think stat padding is something that every all time great goal scorer did. I can’t think of any all time great that didn’t want to score as many goals as he could every game. Just seems like a weird “negative” that only affects Ronaldo.

That's because in every game where Real wins 5-0 at the 90th and a teammate scores, he whines the teammate didn't pass him the ball for the tap-in.
His attitude towards stat padding is detestable.

 

[Ceremony]

Ronaldo or Messi: Which player influences their club's success more? - The Stats Zone

Stats show there's barely any difference. In fact, Ronaldo scores a bigger percentage of his goals when his teams are drawing or losing, but the margins are 1-2% anywhere. It's so tight that giving any sort of conclusion about how one stat pads more than the other would be ridiculous.

Maybe people are influenced by Ronaldo's obnoxious, over-the-top celebrations, I don't know.
But the actual numbers definitely don't support any serious claim how he stat pads more than Messi - in fact, it's the other way around, though by a completely insignificant margin.

(Note: these stats are from 15-16, so BEFORE Ronaldo won two more CLs, scoring a ridiculous number of goals while doing it, and putting 10 past Bayern, Atleti and Juve in 5 games in 2017)

...

I realize my defending Ronaldo might come off as fanboyish, but it honestly isn't.
Like I said, Messi's the GOAT for me, but Ronaldo - instead of being treated as a #2 all-time - is treated here like a peasant who only gets trophies and individual acclaims because of stat padding and tap ins.

he's not called penaldo for nothing

 

[The Abusement Park]

That's because in every game where Real wins 5-0 at the 90th and a teammate scores, he whines the teammate didn't pass him the ball for the tap-in.
His attitude towards stat padding is detestable.

But it isn’t when Lewa complains that his teammates weren’t good enough to help him win the scoring title? No one craps on Lewa when he acts like that.

 

[Evilo]

But it isn’t when Lewa complains that his teammates weren’t good enough to help him win the scoring title? No one craps on Lewa when he acts like that.

Lewa deserves all the crap he gets. When he took an helicopter to buy some bread, the whole world flamed him.

 

[StevenF1919]

Sounds like Gazidis will be joining Milan as their new CEO.

 

[KJS14]

I think stat padding is something that every all time great goal scorer did. I can’t think of any all time great that didn’t want to score as many goals as he could every game. Just seems like a weird “negative” that only affects Ronaldo.

All elite goal scorers have scored goals in meaningless moments or from penalties, no doubt. Not every goal is going to be a crucial game winner. I didn't argue against that, but maybe the wording was a bit confusing.

My point is that you don't see other all time great scorers ripping their shirt off and flexing when they score their meaningless goals, whereas Ronaldo celebrates every goal like a CL final game winner. Other elite scorers give up penalties in blowouts to their teammates that really need the confidence, whereas Ronaldo doesn't do that. Maybe some people enjoy that about him, but I don't.

 

[YNWA14]

My point is that you don't see other all time great scorers ripping their shirt off and flexing when they score their meaningless goals, whereas Ronaldo celebrates every goal like a CL final game winner. Other elite scorers give up penalties in blowouts to their teammates that really need the confidence, whereas Ronaldo doesn't do that. Maybe some people enjoy that about him, but I don't.

My point is that this stuff isn't true. Look back at the video I posted to see Ronaldo many times giving up a shot on net to slide the ball across and give a teammate a tap in. Hell, just this year against Alaves he was on a hattrick and he gave up the penalty that would have been his 3rd goal to Benzema (which would have been his 50th hattrick and 300th La Liga goal, if I'm reading right) because he'd been struggling. Yes, he goes over the top sometimes, but he's a very intense person in general.

 

[The Abusement Park]

My point is that this stuff isn't true. Look back at the video I posted to see Ronaldo many times giving up a shot on net to slide the ball across and give a teammate a tap in. Hell, just this year against Alaves he was on a hattrick and he gave up the penalty that would have been his 3rd goal to Benzema (which would have been his 50th hattrick and 300th La Liga goal, if I'm reading right) because he'd been struggling. Yes, he goes over the top sometimes, but he's a very intense person in general.

I would say it’s exaggerated. He does stat pad and do some selfish stuff on the field. He’s also an egomaniac and doesn’t have the most like able personality in the world, I don’t think many people would argue that.

But yeah when people say he does literally nothing but score and that’s all good for it’s ignorant. I mean is he the best distributor/passer? No but he’s still decent. Is he good defensively? Not really, but then again who cares? That’s not his role.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Palermo Owner: Dybala Leaving Juventus For LaLiga In January

Probably BS I don't think many will be willing to drop 100 million on a cup tied player... He most likely leaves in the summer though.

 

[KJS14]

My point is that this stuff isn't true. Look back at the video I posted to see Ronaldo many times giving up a shot on net to slide the ball across and give a teammate a tap in. Hell, just this year against Alaves he was on a hattrick and he gave up the penalty that would have been his 3rd goal to Benzema (which would have been his 50th hattrick and 300th La Liga goal, if I'm reading right) because he'd been struggling. Yes, he goes over the top sometimes, but he's a very intense person in general.

Props to Ronaldo if he did that for Benzema, but that's generally an exception for him and not the norm. I've said nothing about Ronaldo's playmaking or him not providing tap-ins for his teammates, because he's a smart enough player to make the right play in the right moment. I don't think that contradicts his displays of celebrating stat-padding goals as though they won his team the game. He just wants to be the center of attention, which rubs some people (including myself) the wrong way.

Palermo Owner: Dybala Leaving Juventus For LaLiga In January

Probably BS I don't think many will be willing to drop 100 million on a cup tied player... He most likely leaves in the summer though.

Might still be BS, but Coutinho to Barca happened in January, so we'll see.

 

[hatterson]

Palermo Owner: Dybala Leaving Juventus For LaLiga In January

Probably BS I don't think many will be willing to drop 100 million on a cup tied player... He most likely leaves in the summer though.

Didn't they change the cup tie rules so he could play for one team during the group stage and one during the knockout rounds?

 

[S E P H]

Context was obviously the BdO. Ronaldo does nothing else than scoring.

Messi and Griezmann provides nothing except scoring either; that's what strikers are paid to do. They're not paid as Cavani is and randomly track back putting himself out of position constantly - fortunately they don't have to rely on him to score. Come on Evilo, you know better than this.