Transfer: Summer Transfers part 4

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Jussi, Aug 7, 2018.

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  1. KJS14

    KJS14 Registered User

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    In fairness, this is mostly because Juve would never play attractive enough football to win a game 7-1.
     
  2. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    It doesn't have anything to do with "attractive" football. It's just their culture.
    Madrid and Barca will hammer a poor Huesca and put 6 or 8 past them. In Italy, you're up by 3, you take your foot off the gas and see the game out. It's simply how it is.

    I think Ronaldo, for example, might be pretty frustrated if Juve is up by 3, he's trying to score more goals, but the rest of the team doesn't actually care lol... I mean, I put a "lol" in there, but I think it's an entirely plausible event in the near future.
     
  3. KJS14

    KJS14 Registered User

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    Whether or not Juve has a culture of not running up the score doesn't change the fact that they don't play the attacking football to score 7 on a team. They take their foot off the gas and park the bus up 1-0 or 2-0.

    And Ronaldo loves his meaningless, stat-padding goals in blowouts so I'm sure he will be upset.
     
  4. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    This is kind of a silly comment. All of the greats 'stat pad' in blowouts.
     
  5. KJS14

    KJS14 Registered User

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    Sure, but you rarely (never?) saw the other greats rip their shirt off and flex after scoring a penalty to put their team up 4-1.
     
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  6. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    I mean, it was the CL final against Atletico. Obviously it was over the top but I don't think that's really the same as what you were saying.
     
  7. KJS14

    KJS14 Registered User

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    There's other examples of him celebrating those types of goals, it was just the first that came to mind for obvious reasons. We're talking about a guy that visibly gets upset at his teammates for not passing him tap-ins when his team has a comfortable lead. For the record, I respect his talent, but I also despise his antics.

    I don't see how it differs from me saying that Ronaldo enjoys his stat-padding goals more than just about everyone else.
     
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  8. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    So, so true.

    But one thing is to be said. It is NOT useless. That's his goal scoring and goal scoring only that got him that many Ballon d'Or. Not his playmaking or his leadership.
     
  9. Cassano

    Cassano nyeah eh

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    His leadership won Euro 2016.
     
  10. KJS14

    KJS14 Registered User

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    Just thought I'd add that touch.
     
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  11. SJSharks39

    SJSharks39 Registered User

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    Are you sure it was his and not the CBs?
     
  12. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Yeah, it was the stat padding that got him Ballon d'Ors.

    Sneaky guy managed to stat pad all those times in CL KO stages. He stat padded 54 times to Messi's 37, and the next stat padder on the list had a grand total of 19 goals (Müller).

    The Ronaldo hate really is absolutely hilarious at times here.
     
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  13. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Ronaldo is a pure goal scorer.
    He brings ABSOLUTELY nothing else, except maybe poor assets (defensive, pressing).

    So yeah, his goalscoring won him BdO. That's a fact.
     
  14. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Of course his goalscoring won him BdOs, his goals are so out of reach or every non-Messi player in the history that it's almost cartoony.

    That said, before his transformation, he was scoring just as much at Madrid before turning to a central striker who is less involved in the build up.

    I mean, Messi is the GOAT for me. But Ronaldo is clear cut #2 yet gets treated like some peasant who deals in tap ins, penalties and running up the score vs Huesca and Gijon.
     
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  15. East Coast Bias

    East Coast Bias Registered User

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    There isn’t a topic in the world that this board can’t evolve into the same old Messi-Ronaldo argument. It’s amazing to watch.
     
  16. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Where did I say he wasn't a great goal scorer?
    I said his goal scoring, including his stat padding, won him BdO.
    That's hardly arguable since he brings nothing else on the pitch (contrary to other players, who don't bring as many goals however).
     
  17. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Saying Ronaldo brings nothing else is just lazy, or ignorant.
     
  18. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    He scored 60+ goals per season twice, 50+ 6 times, 40+ goals 3 times (including last two seasons, where he played less games, was rested, yet was absolutely clutch in the CL and 16/17 La Liga).

    Do you expect all of his goals to be game-winners or something? That's ridiculous.
    People who score obscure number of goals will, by default, have a bunch of goals when they're 2 or 3 goals up in a game. It's just maths.
    Be it for Messi, Ronaldo, whoever... If you pop 48 goals in 34 league games in a season, surely noone expect them to all be game-tiers and game-winners?

    And by the same metric, does Messi stat-pad as well? Or is he excused from it? Because somehow it's not the same when Madrid is hammering someone 4-0 or when Barca is smashing 5 or 6 past an opponent?

    And of course his goals win him the BdO, he scores on an absolutely ridiculous level. Noone (apart from Messi, obviously) in the history of football comes even remotely close - and to top it all, he scores big while winning big trophies.
    3 CLs in a row and 4 in 5 years has not been done since the 70s. And doing it in an era of super clubs like Bayern, Juve, PSG and (especially) Messi's Barca makes it only more impressive.
     
  19. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    You forgot biased. :D
     
  20. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Ah the guy who uses YT highlights tells me I'm ignorant :facepalm:

    Ronaldo is a goal scorer and nothing else. That's hardly a problem when you score that much.
     
  21. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    :huh:
    Is there something hard to understand here? Messi does MORE than just score. Ronaldo doesn't. Which means that Ronaldo scoring that much is what gives him BdO. Not Messi.

    It's also a fact Ronaldo tries to score as much as possible even when the score if 4-0. How many times have you see Ronaldo give up a penalty to a teammate?
     
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  22. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    And I gave a statistical study here a while ago of how Messi's goal came in tight situations way more often than Ronaldo's. But that's beyond the point anyway.
     
  23. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Goal scorer and nothing else who also has 200 career assists and the most assists in CL history. Of course they're mostly just setting up tap ins for his teammates...but then again that goes against his selfish demeanor (why set up a tap in when you can just shoot)...

    Who knows? It's probably true. I'm probably ignorant for looking at footage of Ronaldo doing things other than score.

    His build up, playmaking and interplay are ignored because of his goal scoring and selfishness because they're not at an elite level, but that doesn't mean they aren't still at a high level. Something about the forest for the trees.
     
  24. Corto

    Corto Faceless Man

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    Ronaldo or Messi: Which player influences their club's success more? - The Stats Zone

    Stats show there's barely any difference. In fact, Ronaldo scores a bigger percentage of his goals when his teams are drawing or losing, but the margins are 1-2% anywhere. It's so tight that giving any sort of conclusion about how one stat pads more than the other would be ridiculous.

    Maybe people are influenced by Ronaldo's obnoxious, over-the-top celebrations, I don't know.
    But the actual numbers definitely don't support any serious claim how he stat pads more than Messi - in fact, it's the other way around, though by a completely insignificant margin.

    (Note: these stats are from 15-16, so BEFORE Ronaldo won two more CLs, scoring a ridiculous number of goals while doing it, and putting 10 past Bayern, Atleti and Juve in 5 games in 2017)

    ...

    I realize my defending Ronaldo might come off as fanboyish, but it honestly isn't.
    Like I said, Messi's the GOAT for me, but Ronaldo - instead of being treated as a #2 all-time - is treated here like a peasant who only gets trophies and individual acclaims because of stat padding and tap ins.
     
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  25. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    But Ronaldo has support and Messi has had to play with bums his entire career so...
     
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