Transfer: Summer Transfer Thread Part 8 - Things Are Getting Messi

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I just threw up. This pig announced it

 

[93LEAFS]

Barcelona was built on La Masia earlier in the century. They need to return to that. Puyol, Xavi, Fabregas, Iniesta, Messi, Valdes, Pique all were around the same generation and then you add in people like Busquets, Alba, Pedro and that was how the team was built. You didn't need big signings because your stars were internal (even if Fabregas, Pique, Alba left).

Then they started signing players. Neymar was fine, but set the trend. Coutinho, Dembele, De Jong, Greizmann, Pjanic, etc. They bought into the arms race when they had been developing just fine.

Luckily they have some solid talent coming out of La Masia still (Fati, Moriba, Puig, Collado, Mingueza, Gavi) but they need to commit to it again and then buy sparingly. Of course, it looks like they're trying to get rid of Moriba (which is understandable) and maybe Collado as well as selling Trincao

Very hard to get something that replicates that again. United's success under Fergie was partially built on Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's, and Nicky Butt, obviously complemented with great buys along the way (Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Keane, etc). Having an academy class like that is an aberration and not something that can be continually replicated. In the EPL, its insanely difficult to develop an academy kid into a clear first 11 starter. Look at how few first 11 players there are among United, City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and City. La Liga is an easier schedule, and less competitive. But Soccer at the top is an arms race at this point. Not only that, if you develop talent like that, the people who train that talent will get poached and get better offers elsewhere.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I saw Messi would earn 40 million net with PSG.



Dude, he's at Juve or was just sold. Demir you must mean. If not don't even reply.

Demir my phone likes to play games.

 

[Havre]

Good thing we got oil money. Messi might have retired otherwise. Saving football.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Good thing we got oil money. Messi might have retired otherwise. Saving football.

It is a huge boost for Ligue 1 that's for sure!

They might find new TV partership now

 

[bluesfan94]

Yeah they really need to go back to La masia which looks like the course they will take. Collado sadly isn’t good enough anyway. Trincao wasnt la masia.

Moriba is pricing himself out. The midfield will be Frenkie, Pedri, Gavi and maybe Puig. For a long time. You combine that with Fati, demiral and maybe other young signings. There is light at of the tunnel.

Yeah, but Trincao is still young and they're selling him for potentially peanuts

 

[cgf]

Very hard to get something that replicates that again. United's success under Fergie was partially built on Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's, and Nicky Butt, obviously complemented with great buys along the way (Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Keane, etc). Having an academy class like that is an aberration and not something that can be continually replicated. In the EPL, its insanely difficult to develop an academy kid into a clear first 11 starter. Look at how few first 11 players there are among United, City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and City. La Liga is an easier schedule, and less competitive. But Soccer at the top is an arms race at this point. Not only that, if you develop talent like that, the people who train that talent will get poached and get better offers elsewhere.

That's because those teams are bad at integrating young talent

 

[Havre]

It is a huge boost for Ligue 1 that's for sure!

They might find new TV partership now

Oh yeah. That I don't mind. If anything I would like the big five leagues to be more evenly matched then they are today.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Yeah, but Trincao is still young and they're selling him for potentially peanuts

A little less than what they bought. I don’t agree with it though.

 

[93LEAFS]

That's because those teams are bad at integrating young talent

What top team in the past 10 years relies heavily on homegrown talent? Bayern just poaches top young German players, Juve does what Bayern does in Italy, and makes marquee purchases, Real Madrid develops no one, PSG buy everything insight, and the last top player Barcelona developed was Busquets. It is insanely difficult to integrate young home-grown talent as the game gets more competitive. It sucks, but it is just the reality of top clubs now.

 

[bluesfan94]

Very hard to get something that replicates that again. United's success under Fergie was partially built on Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's, and Nicky Butt, obviously complemented with great buys along the way (Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Keane, etc). Having an academy class like that is an aberration and not something that can be continually replicated. In the EPL, its insanely difficult to develop an academy kid into a clear first 11 starter. Look at how few first 11 players there are among United, City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and City. La Liga is an easier schedule, and less competitive. But Soccer at the top is an arms race at this point. Not only that, if you develop talent like that, the people who train that talent will get poached and get better offers elsewhere.

Sure, you may not have that level of talent but there's still a bunch in La Masia. Just u25 players now: Fati, Moriba, Juan Miranda, Puig, Mingueza, Cucurella, Alena, Sanabria, Mir, Traore. And that's not including some young players they've bought.

Also, United has Rashford, Greenwood, Henderson, McTominay as players in or around the Starting XI. Arsenal has Willock, AMN, ESR, Saka, Nketiah and then have bought a bunch of young people. Spurs have Kane and Winks, and then a couple other guys they bought young. Liverpool has TAA, Jones, Elliott, and then again, a bunch of guys they bought young (e.g. Gomez). City and Chelsea are much worse with integrating youth, but City had Sancho and has integrated Foden. Chelsea has Mount, Abraham, CHO, James and again, buy young players on which their whole economic model is based.

Even if Barcelona doesn't develop a new class of stars, they should be using La Masia to much more of an economic advantage than they are

 

[Eye of Ra]

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Man what a bummer of a day. :/

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Man what a bummer of a day. :/

I think I’m on stage 5 right now.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sargent to Norwich City

I think he’s going to flop. Didn’t do well for a Bundesliga relegation fodder team. It’ll be no better for a Premier League relegation fodder team. He could’ve went to Leverkusen, and scored goals. 2-3M is the difference there. Premier League relegation fodder clubs strike again.

 

[93LEAFS]

Sure, you may not have that level of talent but there's still a bunch in La Masia. Just u25 players now: Fati, Moriba, Juan Miranda, Puig, Mingueza, Cucurella, Alena, Sanabria, Mir, Traore. And that's not including some young players they've bought.

Also, United has Rashford, Greenwood, Henderson, McTominay as players in or around the Starting XI. Arsenal has Willock, AMN, ESR, Saka, Nketiah and then have bought a bunch of young people. Spurs have Kane and Winks, and then a couple other guys they bought young. Liverpool has TAA, Jones, Elliott, and then again, a bunch of guys they bought young (e.g. Gomez). City and Chelsea are much worse with integrating youth, but City had Sancho and has integrated Foden. Chelsea has Mount, Abraham, CHO, James and again, buy young players on which their whole economic model is based.

Even if Barcelona doesn't develop a new class of stars, they should be using La Masia to much more of an economic advantage than they are

I watch United a ton. The only locked-on guy when at full health who is first 11 is Rashford. I obviously have high-hopes for Greenwood, but breaking through into an ambitious teams front-line is insanely difficult these days. McTominay is rotational, and Henderson may take De Gea's job. I miss the days when I saw Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and Neville as locked in first 11 guys, with a few rotational guys from the academy. It just seems those days are long gone, and can't be replicated. Sucks, as it's awesome to watch young guys break through and become stars.

 

[Evilo]

What top team in the past 10 years relies heavily on homegrown talent? Bayern just poaches top young German players, Juve does what Bayern does in Italy, and makes marquee purchases, Real Madrid develops no one, PSG buy everything insight, and the last top player Barcelona developed was Busquets. It is insanely difficult to integrate young home-grown talent as the game gets more competitive. It sucks, but it is just the reality of top clubs now.

Please stop.
Real, Barca, PSG and others are among the teams that produce the most pro footballers in the world.

 

[Avs44]

Well, even more reason to watch Ligue 1 this year. Love what’s going on in French football.

Still, sad to see Messi leave Barca even though I don’t care for the club. Thought he’d be a lifer.

 

[93LEAFS]

Please stop.
Real, Barca, PSG and others are among the teams that produce the most pro footballers in the world.

They produce a ton of pros, not many pros who start for them, which is the basis of the great La Masia class. The last time real won the CL not one player in the first 11 came from Real Madrid's academy. When Liverpool won in 2019, the only starter from their academy was Alexander-Arnold, Bayern had 2 in 2020 (Alaba and Mueller), and Chelsea started Mount and James. The odds of seeing a team with 4 or 5 academy guys starting for the CL, EPL or La Liga winners seem to be relic of a prior era. Let alone 7 like the 2009 Barca team.

 

[Evilo]

They produce a ton of pros, not many pros who start for them, which is the basis of the great La Masia class. The last time real won the CL not one player in the first 11 came from Real Madrid's academy. When Liverpool won in 2019, the only starter from their academy was Alexander-Arnold, Bayern had 2 in 2020 (Alaba and Mueller), and Chelsea started Mount and James. The odds of seeing a team with 4 or 5 academy guys starting for the CL, EPL or La Liga winners seem to be relic of a prior era. Let alone 7 like the 2009 Barca team.

Because they chose to sell them young. Which is the point others are making.
PSG could have used some of their sold players.
Areola, Maignan are better than Rico. Dembele, Ikone, Édouard, Diaby or Coman are better than Draxler and Kean. Soumare and Rabiot are better than Paredes.
And you could do the same with many.
Barca won its titles with Alba, Pique and then Cesc coming back. Otherwise they wouldn't have counted.

 

[93LEAFS]

Because they chose to sell them young. Which is the point others are making.
PSG could have used some of their sold players.
Areola, Maignan are better than Rico. Dembele, Ikone, Édouard, Diaby or Coman are better than Draxler and Kean. Soumare and Rabiot are better than Paredes.
And you could do the same with many.
Barca won its titles with Alba, Pique and then Cesc coming back. Otherwise they wouldn't have counted.

In many cases they choose to move on, because breaking into the top team at 18 and getting the required reps is impossible, since short term goals of these clubs trump long-term ones. I didn't even count Alba or Cesc on that 2009 club, so even if you remove Pique it's still 6. It was Iniesta, Valdes, Messi, Puyol, Busquets, and Xavi. Like, I'd love to see another story of a team where all the players from the same city won the CL like the 1967 Celtic team, but I think having a roster like Barca did is a relic of the past at the highest level of soccer. You are hoping realistically to have maybe 2 or 3 first 11 from your academy at best on teams capable of winning CL.

 

[Evilo]

Things are look very likely now... Still waiting for the official announcement before getting my hopes up.
If it happens, this is arguably the best mercato window ever for any team.
Wijnaldum free.
Donnaruma free.
Ramos free.
Messi free.
Hakimi for 60M€.

 

[Evilo]

In many cases they choose to move on, because breaking into the top team at 18 and getting the required reps is impossible, since short term goals of these clubs trump long-term ones. I didn't even count Alba or Cesc on that 2009 club, so even if you remove Pique it's still 6. It was Iniesta, Valdes, Messi, Puyol, Busquets, and Xavi. Like, I'd love to see another story of a team where all the players from the same city won the CL like the 1967 Celtic team, but I think having a roster like Barca did is a relic of the past at the highest level of soccer. You are hoping realistically to have maybe 2 or 3 first 11 from your academy at best on teams capable of winning CL.

This is not true.
Those players, most of them, either left to be starters right away, or moved because the team funded bigger deals.
For instance, PSG sold Ikone, Diaby, Augustin, Edouard or Areola because they needed the money.
If those big teams trusted their youth and added a few big names, I honestly don't think they'd miss a beat.
It's different in England because up until recently, they didn't produce many players, but even there it's changing.
But Real, Barca and PSG have always produced major players, either for them or for somebody else.

If you could make a team of Paris only products, it would be the best team on the planet.

 

[93LEAFS]

This is not true.
Those players, most of them, either left to be starters right away, or moved because the team funded bigger deals.
For instance, PSG sold Ikone, Diaby, Augustin, Edouard or Areola because they needed the money.
If those big teams trusted their youth and added a few big names, I honestly don't think they'd miss a beat.
It's different in England because up until recently, they didn't produce many players, but even there it's changing.
But Real, Barca and PSG have always produced major players, either for them or for somebody else.

If you could make a team of Paris only products, it would be the best team on the planet.

The issue is getting them the playing time to develop them into that in the first place, while remaining a top level club. And, a ton of those Paris players you mention went off to other academies and were never in PSG's system (Pogba and Mbappe being notable examples of this). Pique and Fabreges left Barca because they couldn't get in the rotation.

Real for the past 20 years have been reliant on purchases. The last big name for them who was academy was Casillas. A guy who got his first start for Real over 20 years ago. Yes, they developed other players. But, the reality is, no top club is now developing continual top tier players for their own club. They aren't willing to risk a rough patch of form in the spine of their team, which all young players go through. This is why outside of Harry Kane, almost every top teams or the top 6 in England #9 was bought externally often times as a veteran.

 

[cgf]

What top team in the past 10 years relies heavily on homegrown talent? Bayern just poaches top young German players, Juve does what Bayern does in Italy, and makes marquee purchases, Real Madrid develops no one, PSG buy everything insight, and the last top player Barcelona developed was Busquets. It is insanely difficult to integrate young home-grown talent as the game gets more competitive. It sucks, but it is just the reality of top clubs now.

That's not really accurate...even if ripping on Bayern is something I am always down for. Their academy & young signings have done just as much for them as their big signings...for the latest example in this long-running series see: "signing for the academy" Jamal Musiala's impact last season versus that of "big-ticket transfer" Leroy Sane. They turn lower-hype young signings into superstar big-ticket items all the time.

That's a big part of why they've extended their financial advantage over the rest of the league as dramatically as they have despite regularly letting stars walk for free. And it looks like they're in the process of breaking in another Lahm / Müller / Kroos generation from their youth.

Not to mention that Leverkusen, Dortmund & Wolfsburg are worse about poahing from other BuLi clubs than Bayern & Leipzig...although RB's academy used to be as bad as Leverkusen or Wolfsburg's...

I think he’s going to flop. Didn’t do well for a Bundesliga relegation fodder team. It’ll be no better for a Premier League relegation fodder team. He could’ve went to Leverkusen, and scored goals. 2-3M is the difference there. Premier League relegation fodder clubs strike again.

...to back up Schick & Alario (when they even play with a striker)?