Subban Contract Talk

[Agnostic]

They can't force him to sign a longterm deal. Spin it all you wish, it's up to him.

I am not spinning, just correcting you yet again.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am not spinning, just correcting you yet again.

You are spinning.

You can't force a player to sign long term with you. He does it because he wants to. Period.

 

[Andy]

Oh look, Craig Button suggesting that the bridge deal might have driven Gorges out and the panel agreed.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Oh look, Craig Button suggesting that the bridge deal might have driven Gorges out and the panel agreed.

He qualified it with a 'maybe' but he said: "The bridge contract that the Montreal Canadiens insisted on giving PK Subban is the one that drove Josh Gorges out..."

Mike Johnson threw out a number of 9million per year for PK as well. Hopefully he was just kidding, 'cause that's a lot of cash.

 

[Andy]

He qualified it with a 'maybe' but he said: "The bridge contract that the Montreal Canadiens insisted on giving PK Subban is the one that drove Josh Gorges out..."

Mike Johnson threw out a number of 9million per year for PK as well. Hopefully he was just kidding, 'cause that's a lot of cash.

qualifying it with a "maybe" is still suggesting that the situation could have been avoidable.

 

[Agnostic]

Does it have to be explaind more s l o w l y for you here?

He can sign a two year deal now if he wants it to take him to UFA. It's up to him. If he wants to go UFA, there's nothing you can do to stop him. Signing him for two years instead of five last time does nothing to change this simple fact.

You are spinning.

You can't force a player to sign long term with you. He does it because he wants to. Period.

These are 2 different things. I've just educated you on how Montreal has control of the player , and how they can't be forced into a 2 year deal that brings him to free agency.

Flip flopping in the next post to say something completely different is typical of you however don't turn it on me as "spinning". This is your failure not mine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

These are 2 different things. I've just educated you on how Montreal has control of the player , and how they can't be forced into a 2 year deal that brings him to free agency.

Flip flopping in the next post to say something completely different is typical of you however don't turn it on me as "spinning". This is your failure not mine.

Montreal can't dictate how long he signs for. You are spinning.

Bottom line is that PK can go to UFA if he wants to. They are not two different things. Its up to him and there's nothing we can do about it. Signing him to two years last time instead of five doesn't change this.

So yeah, you are wrong. Spin it all you wish.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Oh look, Craig Button suggesting that the bridge deal might have driven Gorges out and the panel agreed.

PK fanboys, obviously.

 

[Agnostic]

Montreal can't dictate how long he signs for. You are spinning.

Bottom line is that PK can go to UFA if he wants to. Its up to him and there's nothing we can do about it. Signing him to two years last time instead of five doesn't change this.

So yeah, you are wrong. Spin it all you wish.

Please re-read the posts, try to comprehend this time. I did not say this, clearly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

qualifying it with a "maybe" is still suggesting that the situation could have been avoidable.

Sure.

PK fanboys, obviously.

Obviously.

Please re-read the posts, try to comprehend this time. I did not say this, clearly.

They are not two different things. It goes to the very point Fozz tried to make... signing him at two years instead of five gives us PK for longer... it doesn't.

If PK wants to go to UFA, nothing we can do to stop him. He can sign a two year deal or he can go longterm. It's up to him.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

So, Gorges for a 2nd round pick in 2016 = pure hockey decision, hmmm?

 

[Kriss E]

These are 2 different things. I've just educated you on how Montreal has control of the player , and how they can't be forced into a 2 year deal that brings him to free agency.

Flip flopping in the next post to say something completely different is typical of you however don't turn it on me as "spinning". This is your failure not mine.

Nobody is forced to agree to a contract. PK can leave to go play in Europe if he doesn't get what he wants. So ya, nobody can be ''forced'' into a contract.
However, if PK wants to hit the open market, he goes to arbitration if they don't want to give him his short term deal, arbitration are for 1-2 years. He can sign short term deals via arbitration until UFA years if that's what he wants. If the team doesn't want to they can trade him or lose him. No matter who we trade him for, we are very likely not going to be the team that gets the better player, so not sure I'd be happy about it.

At the end of the day, if PK wants to hit open market during his prime, he will hit the open market during his prime.

 

[Agnostic]

Nobody is forced to agree to a contract. PK can leave to go play in Europe if he doesn't get what he wants. So ya, nobody can be ''forced'' into a contract.
However, if PK wants to hit the open market, he goes to arbitration if they don't want to give him his short term deal, arbitration are for 1-2 years. He can sign short term deals via arbitration until UFA years if that's what he wants. If the team doesn't want to they can trade him or lose him. No matter who we trade him for, we are very likely not going to be the team that gets the better player, so not sure I'd be happy about it.

At the end of the day, if PK wants to hit open market during his prime, he will hit the open market during his prime.

I clearly understand all the options, maybe you should educate LG with this.

The best option for all parties is to negotiation fair market value. They are doing this now. Neither side can force anything onto the other party.

But as long as the team has control of the player PK cannot change the options.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I clearly understand all the options, maybe you should educate LG with this.

The best option for all parties is to negotiation fair market value. They are doing this now. Neither side can force anything onto the other party.

But as long as the team has control of the player PK cannot change the options.

PK has plenty of options that would allow him to hit full UFA really soon, if that was what he so desired; that's the point that you seem to constantly miss or, more likely, willfully ignore.

EDIT: Speaking of which, what IS taking so long for this contract to get negotiated? MB holds pretty much all the cards, right?

 

[Andy]

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 37s
Quiet on #Canadiens PK Subban talks. No significant offer going into July1st. Make note #NHL teams now free to make offer sheets to RFA's

 

[Kriss E]

I clearly understand all the options, maybe you should educate LG with this.

The best option for all parties is to negotiation fair market value. They are doing this now. Neither side can force anything onto the other party.

But as long as the team has control of the player PK cannot change the options.

LG's point is that if PK's goal is to hit the open market, then the team will have to sign him to short term deals. If they don't then they have a week to move him otherwise he becomes UFA. Trading a Norris winner is never a good thing.
So despite a return, moving PK would be bad.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 37s
Quiet on #Canadiens PK Subban talks. No significant offer going into July1st. Make note #NHL teams now free to make offer sheets to RFA's

Err, sorry, but is he saying that the Habs haven't even made a serious offer to him yet?

 

[Agnostic]

PK has plenty of options that would allow him to hit full UFA really soon, if that was what he so desired; that's the point that you seem to constantly miss or, more likely, willfully ignore.

EDIT: Speaking of which, what IS taking so long for this contract to get negotiated? MB holds pretty much all the cards, right?

Yeah MB holds all the cards. Who the **** has said that?

You're doing a great Kriss E and LG impression, type type type, whine whine whine, same nonsense every post. No content. Hysteria. Misquoting. Strawman.

I don't have any time to explain things to people that can't learn. Montreal has CONTROL, look that word up FFS. That's different than "holds all the cards". Please I ask you, look the word up. And pass the definition on to your clueless friends.

The best option for both is to negotiate a deal. But PK could find himself in Winnipeg tomorrow . PK can take an offer sheet, yet Montreal can match. Arbitration is an option, but Montreal can take the ruling and do the thing over again next year. Options options options.

There is nothing PK can do to make Montreal left holding nothing, because Montreal has control for 2 years.

 

[Hoople]

Oh look, Craig Button suggesting that the bridge deal might have driven Gorges out and the panel agreed.

Cmon Andy. You are moving the goal posts today.

Last night it was Gorges being "given away". Today, after seeing Gorges fetching a 2nd round pick, it is Gorges being "driven away".

Take a look at our D prospects. Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu. It is time for them to step up and start contributing in Montreal.

No need to bash Bergevin as some evil monster out to get PK. He is looking long term at this team and moving the pieces around to get the Habs set up for what will hopefully be a successful run at the Cup.

 

[Hoople]

Montreal can't dictate how long he signs for. You are spinning.

Bottom line is that PK can go to UFA if he wants to. They are not two different things. Its up to him and there's nothing we can do about it. Signing him to two years last time instead of five doesn't change this.

So yeah, you are wrong. Spin it all you wish.

Agnostic brought up who is really in control. You have turned it into forcing Subban to sign a long term contract.

You are arguing a point that Agnostic did not make. So yes, you are spinning.

Agnostic said that the Habs control PK's fate in Montreal. If he refuses to sign a long term deal, he will be traded and the Habs will get some really great talent in return.

So you are still thinking that $9 million per year is an overpayment for Subban?

What are you arguing for? To bash Bergevin? To say Subban is only worth $5 million and not $9?

 

[Agnostic]

Cmon Andy. You are moving the goal posts today.

Last night it was Gorges being "given away". Today, after seeing Gorges fetching a 2nd round pick, it is Gorges being "driven away".

Take a look at our D prospects. Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu. It is time for them to step up and start contributing in Montreal.

No need to bash Bergevin as some evil monster out to get PK. He is looking long term at this team and moving the pieces around to get the Habs set up for what will hopefully be a successful run at the Cup.

Yes, if you heard Lebrun's take on that trade, and quoting an anonymous western conference GM, the deal was a perfectly timed move to get something for the well worn Gorges and make room for young competent replacements. If he can squeeze a few more drops out of this lineup he will win that GM of the Year award.

 

[Kriss E]

Yeah MB holds all the cards. Who the **** has said that?

You're doing a great Kriss E and LG impression, type type type, whine whine whine, same nonsense every post. No content. Hysteria. Misquoting. Strawman.

I don't have any time to explain things to people that can't learn. Montreal has CONTROL, look that word up FFS. That's different than "holds all the cards". Please I ask you, look the word up. And pass the definition on to your clueless friends.

The best option for both is to negotiate a deal. But PK could find himself in Winnipeg tomorrow . PK can take an offer sheet, yet Montreal can match. Arbitration is an option, but Montreal can take the ruling and do the thing over again next year. Options options options.

There is nothing PK can do to make Montreal left holding nothing, because Montreal has control for 2 years.

Agnostic brought up who is really in control. You have turned it into forcing Subban to sign a long term contract.

You are arguing a point that Agnostic did not make. So yes, you are spinning.

Agnostic said that the Habs control PK's fate in Montreal. If he refuses to sign a long term deal, he will be traded and the Habs will get some really great talent in return.

So you are still thinking that $9 million per year is an overpayment for Subban?

What are you arguing for? To bash Bergevin? To say Subban is only worth $5 million and not $9?

You guys sound like kids talking about this control crap.

It's very very very simple. Fozz hinted that if we wouldn't have given PK a bridge deal he would certainly leave for free agency.
LG and others said if free agency is what PK is about, then he will get to it even after signing a bridge deal. That's it, case closed.
Going on and on and on about this control crap is ridiculous.

As for trading Gorges for cap or not, it's irrelevant. Everyone knew PK was going to be more expensive at the end of his bridge deal. We would have saved more cap space, just how much of it we'll see when he signs. Would we still have moved Gorges? Possibly, because our top 4 needed upgrading. Or maybe we would have kept him here and have a Gorges-Gilbert 2nd pairing. Or maybe we would have pursued more forwards. Who freaking knows. All we know is that we would have saved more cap.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

He qualified it with a 'maybe' but he said: "The bridge contract that the Montreal Canadiens insisted on giving PK Subban is the one that drove Josh Gorges out..."

Mike Johnson threw out a number of 9million per year for PK as well. Hopefully he was just kidding, 'cause that's a lot of cash.

9M sounds realistic.

I gave a lot of reasons why it could be that high in this thread or the previous one.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 37s
Quiet on #Canadiens PK Subban talks. No significant offer going into July1st. Make note #NHL teams now free to make offer sheets to RFA's

I'm not that worried about it.

Last one was Philly to Weber cuz they thought they could outspend the preds. But that didn't even work out.

No one can outspend us. We have A TON of cap room. We could match anything and still have money for Eller.

Not too worried about offer sheets. Worse that can happen is that we would have to overpay Subban by what 2M ? No one can possibly offer more than 10M can they?

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not that worried about it.

Last one was Philly to Weber cuz they thought they could outspend the preds. But that didn't even work out.

No one can outspend us. We have A TON of cap room. We could match anything and still have money for Eller.

Not too worried about offer sheets. Worse that can happen is that we would have to overpay Subban by what 2M ? No one can possibly offer more than 10M can they?

It's not just about outspending, it's about whether or not Bergevin thinks PK is worth spending an amount he wasn't willing to offer him initially on top of missing out on four 1st round picks.

If Bergevin feels PK is worth 7M and another team comes in with a 9M+ over 7 years, does Bergy think he's worth that extra investment?
Personally I think Bergevin is looking to sign PK at 6.5-7M, no more than that. I think numbers thrown here are crazy. I don't think it's going to get higher than this, at most 7.5M.