Subban Contract Talk VII

[JtotheC]

How much is too much!!?? Where do you draw the line!!?? You gotta to draw the line somewhere i guess!!?? The problem is that you got no leverage at all since he can be a ufa in 2 years and will get offer a the max value contract from half the team in the league prob.

As a GM, you no longer will get get "fair" value because his value keeps going up because we are no longer looking at him getting paid the money for what he perform on the ice, we're looking also at his marketability. If MB does not value him at the money his agent is offering, then half the league will. That's how it is and MB is losing this battle.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

If pk was offered 8x8 then what's the prob?

Toews and Kane took a pay cut to stay in Chicago together and sign for the same amount. They both signed for 2,5M more than that 8M, and that's while not getting dicked around on bridge deal.

You think they're worth more than 131% of what Subban is worth ?

Subban is better than what you think, or Toews/Kane are worse than you think. But there's not a difference of more than 31% between these guys. It's closer than that.

Reality is that with the rogers deal, a long CBA, expansion down the line... cap is expected to go up by a lot. And 8M is not gonna cut it. Subban is seeking 8.5M for a RFA year. Imagine what he wants for UFA years ? He has no reason to take a pay cut for us. Not like other players playing for winning teams who didn't have to take bridge deals.

It will take more than 8.5M to get this done.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

You're never ''screwed'' by signing a Norris winner.

The bridge deal was a stupid decision, and had PK signed a deal totaling 27.5M on top of his ELC, then he's more likely to negotiate in good faith.

It was a stupid decision then, and it's even more obvious now.

BUT BUT PRECEDENCE!!! WHAT ABOUT PRECEDENCE! Everyone will ask for so much money because Subban got it.

Or my favorite: "The bridge deal is motivation for him", I always thought making the money you think you are worth is motivation, especially someone with the Subbans character.

 

[sharks9]

Bergevin created this scenario with his bridge deal.

True, but that doesn't mean he needs to make another mistake by just agreeing to whatever Subban wants.

 

[RealityBytes]

Well than we should give them long term contracts next year to make sure we don't give them bridge contracts like we did with PK

But seriously, what do Beaulieu and Tinner have to do with Gorges? His replacement is Gilbert and if Beau and Tinner can't be better than Gorges you're right, we have much bigger problems but keeping Gorges was not the solution.

I can see you obviously like Gorges, as do I. Great team guy, well liked, leader etc. But at the end of the day, he was making $4M and was a bottom pairing guy. It's VERY hard to build a winner like that. Ask Toronto who have a plethora of players in that category and are hamstrung by them.

Replacing Gorges with Gilbert, Weaver and a 2nd is good management and good business.

Nothing. I never said that. Gorges isn't with the team anymore.

I am adding to the question on what happens if PK isn't signed based on the defense man that are signed: Markov, Emelin, Gilbert, Weaver Beaulieu, Tinordi, and someone to replace PK.

You are getting two threads mixed up.

 

[JuicyHam]

True, but that doesn't mean he needs to make another mistake by just agreeing to whatever Subban wants.

exactly.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Look up my posts on the subject...I supported the bridge deal on the premise that they would sign PK Subban to a long term extension following it's conclusion

This obviously hasn't happened....

I can no longer support that decision...

No worries man, it was only a tiny jab at you. I still appreciate your opinions on the habs, whether or not we were able to agree on certain details.

A lot of peoples ideas following the bridge contract have been rescinded due to MBs negotiating tactics with our best player (arguably for some)

 

[llamateizer]

Montreal will still sell out their games regardless of what players the ice and how well the team does. When Crosby was drafted by Pittsburgh they weren't doing that great financially, same with Chicago before drafting Toews and Kane. Those players are a big reason their clubs have success.

People say they'll stop watching if Subban leaves, but it won't happen. Montreal will still sell out every game.

true, because we have Gallagher, Galchenyuk and Price to watch

 

[waffledave]

If this goes to arbitration, I'm pretty confident that it means the end for Subban in MTL long-term. And everyone in Montreal is going to blame Bergevin and the team and none of the responsibility is going to fall on Subban for not being flexible. We don't know what the offers are, but if it's true that he turned down 8.75M x 8 years, what does that say about our star player who "wants to end his career in Montreal".

Subban was plenty flexible when he accepted a bridge deal under the premise that he'd get paid if he proved himself.

Bergevin is the one not holding up his end of the bargain.

 

[gusfring]

Montreal will still sell out their games regardless of what players the ice and how well the team does. When Crosby was drafted by Pittsburgh they weren't doing that great financially, same with Chicago before drafting Toews and Kane. Those players are a big reason their clubs have success.

People say they'll stop watching if Subban leaves, but it won't happen. Montreal will still sell out every game.

And I think that is why they have no fear of blowback by fans, because they are locked into 21,273.

Saving 500k or 1 mill goes directly to the bottom line.

 

[Kriss E]

Look up my posts on the subject...I supported the bridge deal on the premise that they would sign PK Subban to a long term extension following it's conclusion

This obviously hasn't happened....

I can no longer support that decision...

But I thought as was well with negotiations?

 

[bobholly39]

I think most habs fan would be ok paying Subban long term (8 yrs) at 10mil$ per year.

And I doubt Subban is asking more than that.

 

[Roulin]

Yes the habs are a rich team with a lot of revenue but looking a Molson net worth he is rich but not even in top 10 of richest owners.Also there are many partners who own habs and there could be serious arguements going on behind the scene among the owners.I just went through a french business journal and they discussed what could be going on among canadiens partners

Is the article available online anywhere?

I understand that Molson may not be among the wealthiest individuals in NHL ownership, but I still imagine the Habs and the Bell Centre must be enormously profitable, definitely among the top 5 most profitable ownership situations in the league?

 

[417]

No worries man, it was only a tiny jab at you. I still appreciate your opinions on the habs, whether or not we were able to agree on certain details.

A lot of peoples ideas following the bridge contract have been rescinded due to MBs negotiating tactics with our best player (arguably for some)

It's just very odd...

Subban, and this isn't just related to the contract negotiations, just seems to have to live up to completely different standards then everyone else.

There seems to be a need for people in hockey to always single him out...

 

[beenhereandthere]

This is absolute ********. To bring up the race/language card is so pathetic, especially when none of us have any idea of what he asked for 8 years. Subban has a noticeably huge ego, whether he's Chinese or Black, English or French, so for all we know, he may want Toews/Kane contracts.

Man this fanbase sometimes urgh.

Patrick Kane doesn't have a huge ego?
Look how the Hawks treated him.
Look how the Habs are treating PK.
This is horsebleep.
I'm sure that PK's race has a little to do with this, at least a little, but I know that it's more a ethnic issue, if he was pure laine, like Guy Lapointe back in the day, he would have been signed like Doughty was back in 2013.

 

[Simarino]

As a GM, you no longer will get get "fair" value because his value keeps going up because we are no longer looking at him getting paid the money for what he perform on the ice, we're looking also at his marketability. If MB does not value him at the money his agent is offering, then half the league will. That's how it is and MB is losing this battle.

Then its %//$ stupid to keep offering bridge contract when in reality thats the only time you have some kind of power in the negociation!!

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

The discussion of sell-outs is rather weak with respect to scalpers. The year the habs finished dead last, I saw plenty of empty seats and knew a lot of scalpers who had tickets in their pockets come puck drop.

I guess Molson doesn't give a **** if the seats are full, since the ticket is sold.

 

[417]

But I thought as was well with negotiations?

insert all the sarcasm you want Kriss E...I've conceded you were right before, and I am again. The bridge deal, now I can admit was a colossal mistake and miscalculation by Bergevin, as he seemingly isn't convinced by the 2 tremendous seasons he had.

But I never claimed negotiations were going well...so not sure what the point of that comment was other than to beat your chest...

To each his own I guess...

 

[poetryinmotion]

Rejean Houle 2.0

DON'T say that... Ugh... Yeeshh..

 

[Prendan Brust]

Subban was plenty flexible when he accepted a bridge deal under the premise that he'd get paid if he proved himself.

Bergevin is the one not holding up his end of the bargain.

How do you know? Just because Subban isn't signed you assume Bergevin is lowballing him or you simply believe the habs should pay him whatever he wants, even the max salary?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

The Desharnais contract and Subban situation two years ago tell me otherwise.

Desharnais is a 55-60 pts center making 3.5M... Incredible how much we overpaid. MUST BE BECAUSE HE SPEAKS FRENCH.

How about Emelin getting 3.5M ? Must be because he speaks french.. oh wait..

Go on and tell me about Price's high glove hand though, I seem to remember you were an expert goaltender.

I am not going to sink to your level here but there's a lot of material for it.

Also, Price is a pretty good example of how you're wrong. MB gave him a really solid long term deal right away. Must be because of all that French he speaks.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

It's just very odd...

Subban, and this isn't just related to the contract negotiations, just seems to have to live up to completely different standards then everyone else.

There seems to be a need for people in hockey to always single him out...

As some of us have said all along. I don't understand how I, and some others around here, knew what Subbans potential was, and yet paid hockey minds couldn't see it. Before Subban signed his bridge deal, I said on these forums that he would win a Norris in the next three years. He did it that very year. I love the habs, but I am not really the greatest judge of hockey talent. But how was it so obvious to me and not to habs management? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[ssmtl1]

Reality is that with the rogers deal, a long CBA, expansion down the line... cap is expected to go up by a lot. And 8M is not gonna cut it. Subban is seeking 8.5M for a RFA year. Imagine what he wants for UFA years ? He has no reason to take a pay cut for us. Not like other players playing for winning teams who didn't have to take bridge deals.

It will take more than 8.5M to get this done.

Partly related, but if the Canadian economy goes south (almost no net job creation in like 8 months, potential housing bubble bursting), and the CAD crumbles (say to 80c), the NHL could face negative revenue growth in USD. I don't know how everyone is SOOOO optimistic about the growth path of the salary cap. The post 2005 lockout revenue growth was in part impacted by a strong loonie, and most would expect the reverse scenario in the future.

I don't know all the implications from the Rogers' deal, but when 6 of your 10 most profitable teams could face these challenges, I can't help but feel the NHL bottom line projections are inflated.

 

[Youppi ki yay]

I have loved what MB has done since joining the club.
I love PK and his heart.

Today I feel like I'm going to lose faith in one of them. It's a sad day.

I feel like this inside:

 

[HamiltonNHL]

he would have been signed like Doughty was back in 2013.

I think every GM in the League would take Doughty over Subban.