Confirmed Signing with Link: [STL] F Jordan Kyrou signs extension with the Blues (8 years, $8.125M AAV)

[Regal]

Stutzle is 20 and the Sens may have to pay him $10+ million if he progresses like they'd expect him to progress. The gamble makes sense in their case. Same situation with Hughes, paying him $8 million prematurely makes sure they won't have to pay him $10.5 million down the line.

Here? How much more money would Kyrou get next off-season if he has a repeat PPG season? I just don't see it having a substantial impact, he'd still be coming in around $8 million. There's a huge difference between a player who is 25 when his deal starts and a player who is 21 when his deal starts.

Yea, I tend to agree. You sign these long term deals early to try to get a discount if a player takes another step or two, but I’m not sure they’d really be getting that here given Kyrou’s age and potential. Though I suppose it really depends on what people think his potential might be. He did only play 16:30 a game last year though, but St.Louis is deep so he probably won’t increase that enough to up his totals much anyway.

At the same time, if you’re confident in him, maybe part of this is not running into issues down the line with signing one of your top players. I don’t think it’s a bad idea, I’m just not sure I see the urgency.

 

[57special]

I think Kyrou is really good. I'd take him ahead of Thomas for sure.

Why?

- Thomas is a year younger, with significantly better career production

- is a RH Center, rather than a LH Wing. Centers are more valuable, as are RHS.

- He also outscored Kyrou last year, in Kyrou's breakout year.



I would be surprised if many STL fans would take Kyrou over Thomas going forward.

 

[Reality Czech]

But the gamble with those young players make sense because they could be at risk of paying them way more if they don't lock them up to those kind of deals.

I just don't think this deal makes sense from a risk/reward POV for the Blues. He only has 1 season of elite play and doesn't really strike me as the guy with huge money upside (meaning they're not at risk of paying him $10+ million if they don't sign him now). The Blues aren't really getting a discount here, they're basically just paying him what he would have cost next off-season if he had another PPG season this year.

Honestly, I feel kinda the same way about Thomas' contract as well. But with Thomas, he's also a center and an absolute hulk of a player, so I'm less concerned about that than Kyrou.

I would tend to agree with you for the most part with one "but" that I will get to in a minute. If it were up to me, I probably wouldn't be signing him right this moment. If the deal comes in equal to Thomas, I'll be a bit nervous as I don't think he will ever be the overall player Thomas is. If it comes in a bit less, I'll be pretty satisfied. I didn't expect Kyrou to be as dominant in such a short amount of time, and while he has a long way to go in terms of play away from the puck, he showed me last year that he wants to be more of a complete player. I'm not terribly worried that last year was an abberration, Kyrou is the real deal.

But...I can also see why Armstrong would want to get this done right now. He's a practical guy who likes to take things off his plate when he can. I think we know Tarasenko is likely gone after this year, but he's got a potential O'Reilly extension to work on along with a handful of other UFAs. He has to figure out what this team will look like beyond this season, and locking down Thomas and Kyrou for 8 years makes that picture clearer. Armstrong isn't the guy to roll the dice and wait things out, when he has a chance to close a deal he doesn't usually waste time. And considering the other deals signed around the league this summer, it's clear that GMs are trying to lock down young stars earlier than ever before.

 

[BKarchitect]

Why?

- Thomas is a year younger, with significantly better career production

- is a RH Center, rather than a LH Wing. Centers are more valuable, as are RHS.

- He also outscored Kyrou last year, in Kyrou's breakout year.



I would be surprised if many STL fans would take Kyrou over Thomas going forward.

Agreed…I think Thomas is the more pivotal foundational piece and is simply the more impactful player outside of goal scoring but Kyrou is great too and luckily the Blues don’t have to choose. Plus scoring gets you paid. I imagine Kyrou basically gets the same deal as Thomas and it would be perfectly fine if that is the case. Lock your two young guns up.

But I imagine a poll of Blues fans would see Thomas regarded a bit higher. Which is interesting because it seems like a lot of non-Blues fans would take Kyrou apparently…he seems to have a higher “reputation” for some reason.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The whole, just wait until next summer talk seems sort of silly. It's ultimately splitting hairs because the rumored deal seems likely fair for his production, we'd be paying him what he's worth. Teams and players probably view it as a positive to get a deal done prior to the season, so it's not a distraction.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

By who? No reasonable Blues fan had him in bust territory.

There were very real concerns about health at one point. They're still there, but a lot less pronounced than back then.

EDIT: apparently I misremembered this, my bad

 

[Jumptheshark]

If/when the cap goes up in those 2 years, you aren't getting him for this deal, though.

I think now with the flat cap is the best time for teams to lock up young talent. Any long term deal has risk, but there's also a bigger chance of these deals being considerably under market as the cap starts to go back up.

as long as he keeps up his scoring

 

[bleedblue1223]

There were very real concerns about health at one point. They're still there, but a lot less pronounced than back then.

Health? I don't even know what this is referencing.

 

[The Note]

I think Kyrou is really good. I'd take him ahead of Thomas for sure.

Thomas is the steak, Kyrou is the sizzle. I think some Blues fans get on Kyrou too much from time to time and have no problem with locking him up long term, but I would take Thomas over Kyrou 10/10.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Health? I don't even know what this is referencing.

Didn't Kyrou have a worrisome head/neck injury? Maybe I'm misremembering. I seem to remember there were questions around his future at one point.

 

[playasRus]

Health? I don't even know what this is referencing.

Around this era:

Speculation: - Jordan Kyrou Scratched

One of the Blues top prospects.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Why?

- Thomas is a year younger, with significantly better career production

- is a RH Center, rather than a LH Wing. Centers are more valuable, as are RHS.

- He also outscored Kyrou last year, in Kyrou's breakout year.



I would be surprised if many STL fans would take Kyrou over Thomas going forward.

Thomas is younger, but, had played more seasons in the NHL than Kyrou. Why did he take so much longer to breakout than Kyrou?

Idk why you and bring up someone being a LHS in this argument Kyrou is a RHS.

Thomas was playing a majority of the year with Tarasenko and Buchnevich while Kyrou was moving around and playing a quite large amount with Schenn and Barbashev.

I would definitely take Thomas over Kyrou. But, I'd much much rather have them both.

Around this era:

Speculation: - Jordan Kyrou Scratched

One of the Blues top prospects.

forums.hfboards.com

No? The Blues were having injury issues around the time and they were going to be calling him up for a couple games.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Around this era:

Speculation: - Jordan Kyrou Scratched

One of the Blues top prospects.

forums.hfboards.com

Don't know how that supports your point, but he's never been considered a bust or potential bust by us. His talent was pretty apparent, he just needed to engage a bit, and he did that, pretty standard development stuff.

 

[playasRus]

Thomas is younger, but, had played more seasons in the NHL than Kyrou. Why did he take so much longer to breakout than Kyrou?

Idk why you and bring up someone being a LHS in this argument Kyrou is a RHS.

Thomas was playing a majority of the year with Tarasenko and Buchnevich while Kyrou was moving around and playing a quite large amount with Schenn and Barbashev.

I would definitely take Thomas over Kyrou. But, I'd much much rather have them both.


No? The Blues were having injury issues around the time and they were going to be calling him up for a couple games.

I'm just answering to the previous poster who asked for a source, Kyrou's bane was thrown in a lot of trade proposals in that 2018-2019 era because there were some concerns about how he'd develop and whether he may bust.

TSN: - Sens pass on futures offer for Hoffman

Sens passing on 'futures' offer for Hoffman - Article - TSN The speculation is that it was St. Louis who made the offer, probably involved Thomas and or Kyrou. Thoughts?

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Same contract as Thomas.

 

[TK 421]

Maybe he was thinking of Scott Perunovich? Member of the Lollipop Guild and can't stay healthy.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I think Thomas is better, but not the end of the world to pay them the same. Will be interesting to see what happens with O'Reilly.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm just answering to the previous poster who asked for a source, Kyrou's bane was thrown in a lot of trade proposals in that 2018-2019 era because there were some concerns about how he'd develop and whether he may bust.

TSN: - Sens pass on futures offer for Hoffman

Sens passing on 'futures' offer for Hoffman - Article - TSN The speculation is that it was St. Louis who made the offer, probably involved Thomas and or Kyrou. Thoughts?

forums.hfboards.com

And none of these threads support the point you are making.

Didn't Kyrou have a worrisome head/neck injury? Maybe I'm misremembering. I seem to remember there were questions around his future at one point.

Maybe Perunovich. He had a back issue, and some more injuries since turning pro.

 

[Voight]

Figured he'd get the same as the guy from Matchbox 20.

I think Thomas is better, but not the end of the world to pay them the same. Will be interesting to see what happens with O'Reilly.

Merely a guess but I get the impression ROR loves being there and playing for the Blues. I think at this point he'd take a team-friendly deal and not move around once again.

 

[playasRus]

And none of these threads support the point you are making.


Maybe Perunovich. He had a back issue, and some more injuries since turning pro.

All the threads label him as boom-or-bust. High ceiling, low floor. If everyone is saying "I'd rather trade Kyrou than Thomas," I'm inferring that Thomas is valued higher, and Kyrou more risky. I didn't say he'd busted because then he'd have no value. Maybe "bordering bust territory" was not the right way to put it.

Those threads all show that he was indeed named in trade proposals.

My point was just that boom or bust prospects do that, they boom like Kyrou, or they bust like Brown. And lastly that fan attachment to their own drafted prospects will muddy objectivity when it comes to trading their own projects.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I think Kyrou is really good. I'd take him ahead of Thomas for sure.

That’s absolute insanity

 

[SI90]

Same deal as Thomas. Building a forward core around these guys. Not bad.

 

[DatDude44]

This is higher than I had hoped for him. Needs to take that next step

 

[bleedblue1223]

All the threads label him as boom-or-bust. High ceiling, low floor. If everyone is saying "I'd rather trade Kyrou than Thomas," I'm inferring that Thomas is valued higher, and Kyrou more risky. I didn't say he'd busted because then he'd have no value. Maybe "bordering bust territory" was not the right way to put it.

Those threads all show that he was indeed named in trade proposals.

My point was just that boom or bust prospects do that, they boom like Kyrou, or they bust like Brown. And lastly that fan attachment to their own drafted prospects will muddy objectivity when it comes to trading their own projects.

Being a top 6 or bust type of player doesn't mean we considered him to be in bust territory. That doesn't even make sense. And there wasn't a single credible source in those that linked Kyrou to trades. He was one of the players that Army refused to include in trade talks with Buffalo for O'Reilly, so he wasn't in bust territory internally either. He was always right behind Thomas when we viewed our prospects.

Guess it doesn't really matter, but the characterization you were presenting was just weird.

 

[Darren McCord]

With Perron gone this season and Tarasenko most likely gone next season this will put Kyrou on the fast track to top 6 minutes. He put up a Point per Game last season in his sophomore season. He is also more productive points wise in his first two full seasons than Tarasenko was in his first two full seasons. Tarasenko was rewarded with 7.5mil over 8 years at 23 going on 24 in 2015. So Kyrou would be getting 500k more than Tarasenko at the same age with a tad higher production and cap ceiling increases in the past 7 years.

I mean this just isnt true? Not arguing about Kyrou's contract but your example is false.

Tarasenko before signing 3 seasons (2 Full)
Age 23
GP 179 G66 A69 Points 135

Kyrou before signing 4 seasons (2 Full)
Age 24
GP 173 G46 A76 Points 122

Tarasenko was more productive at the time he signed his contract. They are comparable for sure but Tarasenko was still more productive and younger.