Player Discussion: Steven Stamkos - Part 9: 500 Goals & 1,100 Points and counting Edition

[TheDaysOf 04]

 

[Stammertime91]

That was so funny lol. For all the shit he's been given about playoff woes in his career, at 34 he's looked good while every other dingaling on the bench has played like shit.

 

[OffBy1]

It was a true captain like performance last night. I like how he was even holding his stick like a goalie.

 

[The Gongshow]

Our captain has looked like just that, the captain. One that goes down with the ship.
These last 3 games. He's played well and actually trying. The team has given up but this man put his body on the line to try and stop that goal. He's trying. I hope he still cares about thos franchise and wants to be here.

I can't speak for that jabroni gm but I hope the two parties make it work.

 

[The Gongshow]

This man needs to be signed no matter what

 

[CupsOverCash]

We couldn't get msl and vl4 to be lifers and we kinda had to move on from those guys, but we don't have to do that with stammer. He's still a high level performer that would be very difficult to replace.

 

[LightningStrikes]

We couldn't get msl and vl4 to be lifers and we kinda had to move on from those guys, but we don't have to do that with stammer. He's still a high level performer that would be very difficult to replace.

When Vinny left we had replacements in place. Not so much with Stamkos now. The issue is the salary cap and the contracts we already have on the books. Something has to give. Either Stamkos stays for less, or he leaves for more or we make room for him.

 

[Crunchrulz]

When Vinny left we had replacements in place. Not so much with Stamkos now. The issue is the salary cap and the contracts we already have on the books. Something has to give. Either Stamkos stays for less, or he leaves for more or we make room for him.

Good points.
The bigger questions are how much of the Cap are you willing to spend on Stamkos that will not be able to be used to add competent support and/or who do you move to make room for him?
If you keep pouring money into five or six players without leaving space to fill in the rest of the roster, aren't we just spinning our wheels in place season after season?

 

[CupsOverCash]

When Vinny left we had replacements in place. Not so much with Stamkos now. The issue is the salary cap and the contracts we already have on the books. Something has to give. Either Stamkos stays for less, or he leaves for more or we make room for him.

It will be interesting to see what the amount he signs for. If it's here it's probably less like you said because of the cap structure and it's more difficult to shift things around and in the end nobody really wants to do that because of the overall quality can take a hit. It's already difficult as it is. However with enough top end players with right mix can do it. Stammer is top end still. He's just older now and it will be most interesting to see the term. I hope he retires a bolt but I understand the place he's in is as he could take advantage of the great playoffs and second half of his season.

 

[Zwui21]

I'm still not sure it would be in the best interests of our team to re-sign him long term (depending on the cap hit obviously), but I do love Stammer.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I'm still not sure it would be in the best interests of our team to re-sign him long term (depending on the cap hit obviously), but I do love Stammer.

Again, why exactly wouldn't it be in the best interest of the team to re-sign him? Yes, some of the back end years will be brutal but that is with nearly EVERY contract for players in this situation. A couple months ago I was right there - we thought he might have been washed. Turned out that was just an extended slump and dude can still play at a league high level.

In order to say we might be better without him re-signing there needs to be some legitimate plan to upgrade a team that also just lost its captain and 40G scorer. So far all I've heard is: it will save up money to add depth guys. Well, ok lol. Depth guys like who - Sheary and Duclair?? What are the names? What 2-3M players are going to improve this team through depth - especially after losing Stamkos on top of it? We already have depth guys...they're just not good.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

We couldn't get msl and vl4 to be lifers and we kinda had to move on from those guys, but we don't have to do that with stammer. He's still a high level performer that would be very difficult to replace.

St Louis was only moved because of the Team Canada drama with Yzerman IMHO

 

[JTBF81]

Again, why exactly wouldn't it be in the best interest of the team to re-sign him? Yes, some of the back end years will be brutal but that is with nearly EVERY contract for players in this situation.

In order to say we might be better without him re-signing there needs to be some legitimate plan to upgrade a team that just lost its captain and 40G scorer. So far all I've heard is it will save up money to add a few depth guys. Well, ok lol. Depth guys like who - Sheary and Duclair?? What are the names? What 2-3M players are going to improve this team through depth - especially after losing Stamkos on top of it?

This. Ppl keep saying to let him walk if he wants more than x amount, but who is Tampa going to find with the ~6 or so million they would've given Stamkos that gives them 40+ goals and 80+ points and is key to the pp's high success rate? If he wants 8 or 9, sure, he probably has to go, but for 6-6.5, maybe 7, I find it difficult to let him walk.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

When Vinny left we had replacements in place. Not so much with Stamkos now. The issue is the salary cap and the contracts we already have on the books. Something has to give. Either Stamkos stays for less, or he leaves for more or we make room for him.

You make room for your PPG, 40G scoring captain. Dude still can play at a league high level and keeps himself in great shape.

 

[LightningStrikes]

But this is not a binary decision. Other pieces can be moved (Cirelli) to make Stamkos fit. It's not just Stamkos has to take scraps or he's gone.

That’s the “make room for him” option.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

That’s the “make room for him” option.

Yeah, I re-read it. My bad. I edited my post.

 

[Sky04]

This. Ppl keep saying to let him walk if he wants more than x amount, but who is Tampa going to find with the ~6 or so million they would've given Stamkos that gives them 40+ goals and 80+ points and is key to the pp's high success rate? If he wants 8 or 9, sure, he probably has to go, but for 6-6.5, maybe 7, I find it difficult to let him walk.

No one is saying let Stamkos was for 6M, the issue is him taking that low of a number. I find it weird you come firing at people who "want him to go" then say he can only stay if he takes a massive discount. Like ok so you want him to go too if he wants anything close to "fair value" for the exact things you list above.

If you find it "difficult to let him walk" over 1-2m then you really don't find it difficult. Based on your argument should he sign for 8-9 you should be happy. If he's only overpaid by 1-2m what are you going to do with that 2m to replace him am I right?

 

[Flat Ronnie]

No one is saying let Stamkos was for 6M, the issue is him taking that low of a number. I find it weird you come firing at people who "want him to go" then say he can only stay if he takes a massive discount. Like ok so you want him to go too if he wants anything close to "fair value" for the exact things you list above.

If you find it "difficult to let him walk" over 1-2m then you really don't find it difficult. Based on your argument should he sign for 8-9 you should be happy. If he's only overpaid by 1-2m what are you going to do with that 2m to replace him am I right?

This is obviously just a guess, but I doubt he would want to stay here and expect to break the bank. He's spent his entire adult life here in a comfortable situation with a family. I'm gonna guess again and say that it's probably not that enticing for him to uproot his family to another city just for an extra 2M maybe.

With that said, if 7.5M is the number you have to make room for him, no? To lose him over a 1-2M overpay margin with completely uncertain replacements is way too risky I would think.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The bigger question is who are we realistically going to (be able to) bring in if he and his $8.5M cap hit leave? We don’t have the trade chips to make big trades happen and free agents will ask for current market value and arguably none are better or more fitting than Stamkos anyway.

Are you trying to replace his 40 goals and 80+ points and left side presence that makes our powerplay the best in the league? Or would you “spend” it on defense and forward depth like a top-4 RD and a 3rd liner?

I’m just glad I’m not JBB because no matter what we’ll do people won’t be happy and the team likely won’t be better than today. Hagel’s raise kicks in next season (+$5M).

So we’ll either keep Stamkos at a rate that’s fair to him and we’ll lose even more depth. Or we improve depth and let Stamkos walk and we’ll further descend into offensive mediocrity, be a one-line-team and lose the face of the franchise.

 

[JTBF81]

No one is saying let Stamkos was for 6M, the issue is him taking that low of a number. I find it weird you come firing at people who "want him to go" then say he can only stay if he takes a massive discount. Like ok so you want him to go too if he wants anything close to "fair value" for the exact things you list above.

If you find it "difficult to let him walk" over 1-2m then you really don't find it difficult. Based on your argument should he sign for 8-9 you should be happy. If he's only overpaid by 1-2m what are you going to do with that 2m to replace him am I right?

I've come up with several options and lineups that can work if Tampa moves out weaker and bad contracts(Sheary, Jeannot, Perbix) and Stamkos is willing to work with the team. Since he's always done so, there's at least a decent chance he does so again. Furthermore, regardless of his "fair market value", the team can only realistically offer him around 6-7 and still make the improvements they need to, so yes, he would need to take that amount as the basis of any roster framework. I am responding to the fact that some seem to think he'll only stay for 8 or 9, and that very few, if any, have provided realistic solutions as to where Tampa wojld then be able to use the 6-7(what they can actually afford) they would've given Stamkos to replace 40 or more goals and 80 or more points. Maybe if they're lucky they could get two guys in the range of Sprong and Foegle, but whether they'd have any consistency, who knows. And no, I would not be happy signing him for 8 or 9 million, as doing so means the team does not improve as they need to, either by not having enough to keep Duclair or another 3.5-4 million F or upgrading on defane with a 2.5-3.5 million type(depending on exact contact values for Stamkos and Duclair/another F). Again, I wasn't responding to you, so feel free to not respond to me.

 

[JTBF81]

This is obviously just a guess, but I doubt he would want to stay here and expect to break the bank. He's spent his entire adult life here in a comfortable situation with a family. I'm gonna guess again and say that it's probably not that enticing for him to uproot his family to another city just for an extra 2M maybe.

With that said, if 7.5M is the number you have to make room for him, no? To lose him over a 1-2M overpay margin with completely uncertain replacements is way too risky I would think.

Yes, 7.5 would be the absolute max. Tampa must improve the blueline, and paying Stamkos 8 or 9 ends that hope unless they lose a top 6 F option. I think he'll work with the team again to some degree to finish his career in Tampa, and if recent history is any indication, JBB won't sacrifice any of Cirelli, Serg, or Cernak to clear additional space for an older ufa and create space.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

6.5 million for 4 years. Or 7 million for 3 or 4 years, that's what I'm ok with

 

[JTBF81]

6.5 million for 4 years. Or 7 million for 3 or 4 years, that's what I'm ok with

Yeah, something similar to the Marchand deal(not 8 years of course, but the aav range) would be great for the team's ability to keep another top 6 F(Duclair or another ufa), and address the defense with someone making 3ish, maybe a little more.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Sign Stamkos?

 

[Stammertime91]

Sign Stamkos?

It's come full circle.