Speculation: Step Back

[Cappuccino]

Maybe we secretly thought of 3 cup wins in the next 7 years. Although it is possible, no cup wins is also possible.

In the next 7 years, we will be lucky to win the cup one of those years, a year where everything comes together. If a good trade presents itself, we should go for it, but we also need to be patient. We won't be sellers this year, maybe we should also not be buyers untill this good trade will be there.

 

[Hclass47]

I’d lie to think everyone is available. Minus the core. If the return makes cap sense and makes the team better long term why not

 

[Subway Schenn]

I’d lie to think everyone is available. Minus the core. If the return makes cap sense and makes the team better long term why not

Who is the core?

Matty, Mitch, JT, Mo and Freddie? Maybe Willie and Dermott?

 

[Spirit of 67]

I know this may seem like a knee jerk reaction to a bad stretch of hockey but is anybody else of the opinion that the Leafs should be sellers this TDL so that we can move forward next year and for the next 5-10. Furthermore some major changes should be made this offseason to further this change in personnel. I just don’t think we are a good enough team to compete with the TB, Boston, Nashville, Jets, Vegas, etc. as currently constructed.

Personally these players should be moved at the TDL:
Gardiner
Zaitsev
Brown
Ennis
Lindholm

This offseason
Nylander
Marleau

I’m not suggesting we just dump players for the sake of it but if a trade will make us better in the long run (Blue chip or youngish player with upside) I would like our management to worry less about us reaching the playoffs but making us a true contender moving forward.

Thoughts?

When I saw the title Step Back I thought it was a thread about taking a step back from the ledge.
Perhaps it should've been.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Maybe I'm alone but I'd be surprised if we made a big trade this year.

I'd be shocked.

 

[Spirit of 67]

You watch the Raptors the past 3/4 years, great regular season followed by absolute disastrous playoffs. This team isn’t good enough and the problem is most the the TML fans in this city are unwilling to admit it. We are going to be a good team that never wins anything but puts up a hundy spot in points in the regular season and is one and done.

I bleed blue and white like everybody who follows this team but I am pragmatic about our chances of winning a SC with the team as it’s constructed. We have some great pieces but our D is bottom third IMO and if weren’t for FA we would be a bubble team. Those players listed are not core pieces-sure you will come back with Nylander is but given our upcoming cap crunch and the emergence of both Kapanen and Johnsson I think trading Nylander for D help would be our best move.

No, fans like you want to win the Cup this afternoon. Not be patient and build the team properly.
I'd rather draft, develop and build like TBay rather than rush into things like Edmonton.
But hey, if you'd rather be like Edmonton, I know a team you can cheer for.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The problem is fans. Not the team. This is a team in transition and very young and still developing what it takes to be the best with consistency.

Completely to be expected. Tavares is money innthe bank and plays a heavy game every night.

As a unit right now, not so good. Its a stretch of difficulty as a team. Thats all. Management will make the team better when the opportunity is there. Thats the bottom line.

Really good team as we sit, no rush from my perspective. We need to get 4 lines going again and the top two lines need some puck luck.

Thats my take )

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Who is the core?

Matty, Mitch, JT, Mo and Freddie? Maybe Willie and Dermott?

Willy is not core. He's trade bait on a trade bait contract

 

[HamiltonNHL]

No, fans like you want to win the Cup this afternoon. Not be patient and build the team properly.
I'd rather draft, develop and build like TBay rather than rush into things like Edmonton.
But hey, if you'd rather be like Edmonton, I know a team you can cheer for.

The rebuild is too fast for me. i wanted to be sellers the last few years but i think the players would be outraged. Fans too.

 

[Bluelines]

I know this may seem like a knee jerk reaction to a bad stretch of hockey but is anybody else of the opinion that the Leafs should be sellers this TDL so that we can move forward next year and for the next 5-10. Furthermore some major changes should be made this offseason to further this change in personnel. I just don’t think we are a good enough team to compete with the TB, Boston, Nashville, Jets, Vegas, etc. as currently constructed.

Personally these players should be moved at the TDL:
Gardiner
Zaitsev
Brown
Ennis
Lindholm

This offseason
Nylander
Marleau

I’m not suggesting we just dump players for the sake of it but if a trade will make us better in the long run (Blue chip or youngish player with upside) I would like our management to worry less about us reaching the playoffs but making us a true contender moving forward.

Thoughts?

I'm not so much as in the we should be sellers category as I'm in the I don't like the "own rentals". Sometimes coaches and GM's are too close to their teams to know really what they have, so they keep UFA's thinking we are going to make a run. Keeping JVR, Leo and Bozak last year, thinking we would make a run, was very short sighted. Sure Leo might have got us a 5th or 6th rounder and Bozie might have got us a 2nd or 3rd but JVR and his 30 goals would have got us a late 1st + more, those 3 UFA's would have been at least 3 picks that we could use to help develop our team down the road.

Letting Jake walk for nothing is extremely stupid and extremely poor asset management. I'm not a fan of Jake's game because of his inconsistencies but I can certainly see why there would be an attraction towards him for some fans and GM's. to get an idea of what Jake is worth , you can look at the Shattenkirk trade as a guideline.

Blues got:

Zach Sanford • #12 • LW
Ht/Wt:6'3", 185 lbs.
Born:Nov 9, 1994 (24 yrs) in Salem, MA
Experience:1 years
Drafted : by Washington in 2013 (2/61).
Shoots:L

SCOUTING REPORT

Blessed with both very projectable size and scoring potential, he has an abundance of offensive upside. When he has the puck, it is very hard to get it off him. Must fill out in order to maximize his vast potential, and he also must prove himself against better competition. Needs to play a more consistent game, too.

Long Range Potential: Big, talented winger with upside. [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st round pick
Conditional 2nd round pick


I would rather assets similar to those 3 vs. nothing. You use today's UFA to plug holes and give you cap flexibility 2, 3, 4, 5 years down the road, when your young stars are making top dollar. Our farm team is not that deep, we need to continue to build the farm while our big team matures.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I'm not so much as in the we should be sellers category as I'm in the I don't like the "own rentals". Sometimes coaches and GM's are too close to their teams to know really what they have, so they keep UFA's thinking we are going to make a run. Keeping JVR, Leo and Bozak last year, thinking we would make a run, was very short sighted. Sure Leo might have got us a 5th or 6th rounder and Bozie might have got us a 2nd or 3rd but JVR and his 30 goals would have got us a late 1st + more, those 3 UFA's would have been at least 3 picks that we could use to help develop our team down the road.

Letting Jake walk for nothing is extremely stupid and extremely poor asset management. I'm not a fan of Jake's game because of his inconsistencies but I can certainly see why there would be an attraction towards him for some fans and GM's. to get an idea of what Jake is worth , you can look at the Shattenkirk trade as a guideline.

Blues got:

Zach Sanford • #12 • LW
Ht/Wt:6'3", 185 lbs.
Born:Nov 9, 1994 (24 yrs) in Salem, MA
Experience:1 years
Drafted : by Washington in 2013 (2/61).
Shoots:L

SCOUTING REPORT

Blessed with both very projectable size and scoring potential, he has an abundance of offensive upside. When he has the puck, it is very hard to get it off him. Must fill out in order to maximize his vast potential, and he also must prove himself against better competition. Needs to play a more consistent game, too.

Long Range Potential: Big, talented winger with upside. [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st round pick
Conditional 2nd round pick


I would rather assets similar to those 3 vs. nothing. You use today's UFA to plug holes and give you cap flexibility 2, 3, 4, 5 years down the road, when your young stars are making top dollar. Our farm team is not that deep, we need to continue to build the farm while our big team matures.

We had the lead in the 3rd period of game 7 against Boston. We were close. We had to play like shit to lose the series.

You make it sound like it was obvious we'd be swept and after 3 games, the we were disqualified.

I prefer "own rentals" more than imported rentals.

 

[ToneDog]

The problem is fans. Not the team. This is a team in transition and very young and still developing what it takes to be the best with consistency.

Completely to be expected. Tavares is money innthe bank and plays a heavy game every night.

As a unit right now, not so good. Its a stretch of difficulty as a team. Thats all. Management will make the team better when the opportunity is there. Thats the bottom line.

Really good team as we sit, no rush from my perspective. We need to get 4 lines going again and the top two lines need some puck luck.

Thats my take )

Yup, the problem is the fans. Signing JT and caving to Nylander is a clear sign management thinks this team can win and the bar is set high. They lost to the AVs at home, beat TB and lost to Florida. Yes, the problem is the fans. Sounds like a take from Ron Wilson or Brian Burke.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yup, the problem is the fans. Signing JT and caving to Nylander is a clear sign management thinks this team can win and the bar is set high. They lost to the AVs at home, beat TB and lost to Florida. Yes, the problem is the fans. Sounds like a take from Ron Wilson or Brian Burke.

Whatever. You sound to far gone to even discuss this with. Way to heavy!

 

[ToneDog]

Whatever. You sound to far gone to even discuss this with. Way to heavy!

How am I "too far gone" by disagreeing that the problem is the fans. The team has warts and as you say patience because things will be fixed. That does not sound like the fans' are the problem.

 

[member 298589]

No point getting bent out of shape over a month of .500 hockey. I honestly don't have any expectation beside making the playoffs. In 2020 when Marleau is off the books, and Lilj. and Sandin are playing on their ELCs, we will have a better chance to compete and bring in a supplemental piece or two via trade. I think it would be a waste of an asset this year. Keeping Gardiner at the deadline as an internal rental is the most I would personally do.

Also, Nylander is not getting traded over the summer. He missed training camp and was out of shape but didn't forget how to play hockey. Don't buy into the negativity from other fanbases. He still has 35 games to get into a groove for the playoffs. More concerned about Matthews and his physical or mental health.

 

[Bluelines]

We had the lead in the 3rd period of game 7 against Boston. We were close. We had to play like **** to lose the series.

You make it sound like it was obvious we'd be swept and after 3 games, the we were disqualified.

I prefer "own rentals" more than imported rentals.

To what extent do you mortgage your future for today? Leafs had to go through Boston, Tampa, vs those teams in the regular season they were 4-3-1. IMO it was like flipping a coin if they would make it past them. If we made it past those 2 teams, in all likelihood we would have had to go through Wash or Pitts, we were 1-2 vs Wash and 2-1 vs Pitts. When it comes down to a coin flip, I'm taking the most prudent route which is to know tomorrow becomes today really quickly. If we were dominant vs those teams, I would have kept JVR/Bozie/Leo but we were not dominant, were were a little better than .500.

Sometimes the smart choice is not the fun or sexy choice. Hindsight tells us the prudent choice was to trade them. Well with that hindsight in our current tool chest is it better to play it smart or make the gamblers choice? How is our record this year vs Boston and Tampa?

 

[Spirit of 67]

To what extent do you mortgage your future for today? Leafs had to go through Boston, Tampa, vs those teams in the regular season they were 4-3-1. IMO it was like flipping a coin if they would make it past them. If we made it past those 2 teams, in all likelihood we would have had to go through Wash or Pitts, we were 1-2 vs Wash and 2-1 vs Pitts. When it comes down to a coin flip, I'm taking the most prudent route which is to know tomorrow becomes today really quickly. If we were dominant vs those teams, I would have kept JVR/Bozie/Leo but we were not dominant, were were a little better than .500.

Sometimes the smart choice is not the fun or sexy choice. Hindsight tells us the prudent choice was to trade them. Well with that hindsight in our current tool chest is it better to play it smart or make the gamblers choice? How is our record this year vs Boston and Tampa?

4 - 0 - 0 against Boston last season wasn't good enough?

Also, I'll let you in on a little secret. You can remember this going forward. You have to play good teams in the playoffs.

 

[Bluelines]

4 - 0 - 0 against Boston last season wasn't good enough?

Also, I'll let you in on a little secret. You can remember this going forward. You have to play good teams in the playoffs.

We were 3-1 vs Boston, with one of those wins in OT and another was a 1 goal win. The last 2 games we played vs them was a 4-3 win in Feb and a 4-1 loss in Feb. Those games were a lot closer than you imply. With that said and Boston having home ice advantage, it's a coin flip. A coin flip is not a good enough reason to throw away a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder.

 

[ToneDog]

To what extent do you mortgage your future for today? Leafs had to go through Boston, Tampa, vs those teams in the regular season they were 4-3-1. IMO it was like flipping a coin if they would make it past them. If we made it past those 2 teams, in all likelihood we would have had to go through Wash or Pitts, we were 1-2 vs Wash and 2-1 vs Pitts. When it comes down to a coin flip, I'm taking the most prudent route which is to know tomorrow becomes today really quickly. If we were dominant vs those teams, I would have kept JVR/Bozie/Leo but we were not dominant, were were a little better than .500.

Sometimes the smart choice is not the fun or sexy choice. Hindsight tells us the prudent choice was to trade them. Well with that hindsight in our current tool chest is it better to play it smart or make the gamblers choice? How is our record this year vs Boston and Tampa?

Tend to agree. As things stand now, I am not convinced that this cast can make a deep run and as such I am a buyer at the TDL but I am going on the cheap unless it is for a top pairing dman with term.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How am I "too far gone" by disagreeing that the problem is the fans. The team has warts and as you say patience because things will be fixed. That does not sound like the fans' are the problem.

Read every thread man. Complaining everywhere. What are we in the standing 6th in the league and every player gets ripped on here!!!

It's pretty obvious there are way to many sore losers around and taking over the boards.

These stretches happen. I'm just not conplaing. I see the deficiencies all the time.

I'm not pickin up what most are layin down is it.

The list of ridiculous statements and claims is profound in almost every thread.

It takes time to build teams. This is still being built and this is a stretch of rough play. Still haven't lost 3 games in a row too.

Sorry my post came off personal towards you. Not my intention. )

 

[Spirit of 67]

We were 3-1 vs Boston, with one of those wins in OT and another was a 1 goal win. The last 2 games we played vs them was a 4-3 win in Feb and a 4-1 loss in Feb. Those games were a lot closer than you imply. With that said and Boston having home ice advantage, it's a coin flip. A coin flip is not a good enough reason to throw away a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder.

My mistake, misread the season series.
Anyway, we only traded a 2nd last year. Not sure where the 1st and 5th went.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Tend to agree. As things stand now, I am not convinced that this cast can make a deep run and as such I am a buyer at the TDL but I am going on the cheap unless it is for a top pairing dman with term.

Should always be tinker moves.
Big moves at the TDL really don't pay off.

 

[Liminality]

Every year I question whether or not some people on here have ever sat through an 82 game season. Every team goes through this, maybe other than outliers like Tampa who are just elite at every position. Step back is right, from the ****ing ledge.

We finally have a team with some decent expectations (in what seems like a decade) and people go crazy when everything isn't perfect.

 

[Bluelines]

My mistake, misread the season series.
Anyway, we only traded a 2nd last year. Not sure where the 1st and 5th went.

In the 1st, 2nd and 5th I mean we could have received a 1st for JVR, a 2nd for Bozie and a 5th for Leo.

 

[shortfuze]

No. With Tavares we are a win now team. Picks will take too long to be useful in our window which is now.

They are just entering their win now mode. You can still make trades for the present and future. Moving out guys like Brown and Ennis etc. Allows them to use young guys and still get picks back. And if the right move came in to trade guys like Zaitsev and Gardiner I wouldn’t have a problem with it.