Speculation: Step Back

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
23,354
21,366
Richmond Hill, ON
We finally have a team with some decent expectations (in what seems like a decade) and people go crazy when everything isn't perfect.

Fans is short for Fanatics. Leaf fans are passionate and wear their emotions on their sleeves. I'd take crazy over apathy any day of the week. Just ask any other Toronto team starting with the Argos.
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
15,854
11,052
I know this may seem like a knee jerk reaction to a bad stretch of hockey but is anybody else of the opinion that the Leafs should be sellers this TDL so that we can move forward next year and for the next 5-10. Furthermore some major changes should be made this offseason to further this change in personnel. I just don’t think we are a good enough team to compete with the TB, Boston, Nashville, Jets, Vegas, etc. as currently constructed.

Personally these players should be moved at the TDL:
Gardiner
Zaitsev
Brown
Ennis
Lindholm

This offseason
Nylander
Marleau

I’m not suggesting we just dump players for the sake of it but if a trade will make us better in the long run (Blue chip or youngish player with upside) I would like our management to worry less about us reaching the playoffs but making us a true contender moving forward.

Thoughts?
I think that if you really feel 7 players need to go, I would seriously suggest you pick a new team to be a fan of.
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
Fans is short for Fanatics. Leaf fans are passionate and wear their emotions on their sleeves. I'd take crazy over apathy any day of the week. Just ask any other Toronto team starting with the Argos.
That's fair, it's just annoying seeing some of the overreactions but I got to remind myself sometimes that this place is for that. Even if it sometimes is borderline childish.

I don't think they'll be sellers. I personally don't think Gardiner is traded as we'll keep him for the playoffs and we just let his contract expire, potentially the same with Marleau but that kind of depends on what happens after the season.
 
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shortfuze

Registered User
Apr 23, 2007
4,497
1,633
toronto
Leafs won't be sellers.

At this point playoff experience is worth more than a slightly higher draft pick.

Gards will leave via FA
Brown will get moved for cap relief and a mid round draft pick or prospect.
We will be stuck with Zaits
Marleau has a NM clause and won't agree to be traded. I agree with Rumman above the Orpik loophole won't work for Marleau even though I used to think it was an option.

Lindholm and Ennis are both cheap, serviceable 4th line players. Probably stay, maybe Ennis gets a shot on another team.

Nylander remains a tradable contract after July 1 but his trade value is extremely low now. Like 40 cents on the dollar.
As much as people want o believe that, We aren’t stuck with Zaitsev. He’s still has the ability to play in the NHL. His contract does suck but a lot of crazier trades have happened. Dubas and his team just needs to be creative and find something out there. Whether it’s taking a player back with a shorter contract span and giving up an asset with Zaitsev or he picks up a player on LTIR that Toronto can pay.

My opinion. People can shit on Nylander all they want. I’m not opposed to trading him down the road but for now I have no problem keeping him(his production will come back). A lot of players go through stretches where they don’t produce. But any sane GM understands this as do GM’s of other teams.
 
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Nineteen67

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 12, 2017
22,367
9,841
There are a lot of pros and cons, but imo this group is not in the window to win right now. I don’t think they should give up any controllable assets unless they bring a player with term and low cost.
Looking at the needs -top 2 RH D, top 4 big D , 2 big top 9 wingers preferably with a screw or two loose- where do they find those guys? At what price? If they can acquire any of those guys at the right price, absolutely make the trade.

As for Gardiner, there is value keeping and letting walk, however is there more value in trading him? If the answer is yes, they should do it. They can’t let too many guys walk without getting something in return, especially if they don’t have someone waiting in the minors to fill that spot.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
4,559
We were never, ever doing that.
Playoff teams don't sell off at the TDL.

Also, those returns are just an assumption.

Of course they are assumptions, based on what teams have paid in the past for similar or lesser players.

As I said before teams have to be honest with what they have an ask themselves two questions 1) are our chances better than a coin flip to win one playoff round, two play off rounds, three playoff rounds, four playoff rounds? If you do then yeah, lets go for it. Second question if you decide its a coin flip, then what is your best option for the team long term.

IMO, as I stated before, last year was at best a coin flip for us. In all honesty when you look at our performance this year vs Boston and Tampa, can you honestly say our chances are any better? If you are a GM, you have to be willing to be honest with yourself and say this team is probably not good enough to make it past Tampa /Boston
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
7,061
4,938
Aurora, On.
Of course they are assumptions, based on what teams have paid in the past for similar or lesser players.

As I said before teams have to be honest with what they have an ask themselves two questions 1) are our chances better than a coin flip to win one playoff round, two play off rounds, three playoff rounds, four playoff rounds? If you do then yeah, lets go for it. Second question if you decide its a coin flip, then what is your best option for the team long term.

IMO, as I stated before, last year was at best a coin flip for us. In all honesty when you look at our performance this year vs Boston and Tampa, can you honestly say our chances are any better? If you are a GM, you have to be willing to be honest with yourself and say this team is probably not good enough to make it past Tampa /Boston
Boston needed us to shoot ourselves in the foot to win that series.
We play TBay better than we play Boston.
The posibility was there. It just didn't happen. Which will happen again sometimes.

You don't win if you don't give yourself a chance.
 

Funk21

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
4,335
1,856
Toronto
No, fans like you want to win the Cup this afternoon. Not be patient and build the team properly.
I'd rather draft, develop and build like TBay rather than rush into things like Edmonton.
But hey, if you'd rather be like Edmonton, I know a team you can cheer for.

I am being patient, if you learn to read I suggested we stockpile more assets by divesting assets that will likely not be part of our core moving forward. Two years ago TB missed the playoffs and reloaded. Is us potentially doing so any different? Personally I think we should have traded Bozak and or JVR last year. We had a massive lead over the wildcard teams and the outcome would likely have been the same with extra picks or blue chip prospects. Instead we didn’t address our D, spent a second on Mr. Turtleneck and the Habs look like they got a great kid. #notworthit

Just because I think Nylander is expendable to solidify our D is not right or wrong, it’s my opinion.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,128
10,638
Close enough. Stand Back.

upload_2019-1-20_16-35-32.png


Now that's earning money for entertainment. If the Leafs put forward this effort we'd be cup bound.
 

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