#StastnyWatch - Summer of 2014 - Part I

[The Kingslayer]

The Reigning Stanley Cup Champions would agree with this

Everyone would agree with a good mix. Is there anyone else on our team who can do what Ryan O'Reilly does? Currently no.

 

[AvsRobin]

Not really. They weren't going to trade him at the deadline because they were in playoff position. They likely can't trade him before the draft, because the trade market for significant players is generally held up as teams are waiting to see a more exact value for the draft picks. Plus it'd be stupid to trade him without even tabling an offer, regardless of whether they think he'll take it or not.

I don't think it's warranted to keep a top UFA instead of trading him with the sole argument that you're in a playoff-position. We weren't exactly a top contender.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Really don't like seeing them talk so much about "Structure". I definitely understand that having a Salary Structure is important and I don't disagree with it, but it almost seems like they're doing this now so that if nothing really changes this offseason (defense wise) that they'll say "We said we had a salary structure..."

Sayin, in essence, that the "defense wasn't that bad" last year has me wondering what games they were watching at times...our Defense is still the most painfully obvious weak link of the team.

I'm all for them having a Salary Structure, but it shouldn't be as low as $6M with today's Cap (and the future Cap), something closer to $7M would be a lot more preferable.

In general what teams mean by "salary structure" is allotting a certain number of dollars or percent of the cap to each position group/line. The team is already quite forward-heavy and I assume that's what they're talking about. With Landeskog, Duchene, O'Reilly, Stastny, and MacKinnon (eventually) all potentially coming in around $6M (MacKinnon will likely be more IMO), that's about 40 to 45 percent of the (current) cap already spent, and doesn't include EJ or Varlamov, or Barrie's next deal. It leaves very little for 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, even with MacKinnon still on ELC.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I don't think it's warranted to keep a top UFA instead of trading him with the sole argument that you're in a playoff-position. We weren't exactly a top contender.

Neither were the Rangers. If my team was in the position the Avs were, I wouldn't trade away guys who could help. Even if I didn't think they were going to make any noise, I'd give them a chance to prove me wrong rather than trading away key players, thereby making it that much harder for them.

You're entitled to your philosophy, of course; it's just not the way I would do it.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I would guess that all three of Sakic, Roy and Sherman are involved, with Roy & Sakic being the more prominent

Yup, Joe & Patty doing the negotiating, and Sherm crunching the numbers.

 

[Freudian]

In general what teams mean by "salary structure" is allotting a certain number of dollars or percent of the cap to each position group/line. The team is already quite forward-heavy and I assume that's what they're talking about. With Landeskog, Duchene, O'Reilly, Stastny, and MacKinnon (eventually) all potentially coming in around $6M (MacKinnon will likely be more IMO), that's about 40 to 45 percent of the (current) cap already spent, and doesn't include EJ or Varlamov, or Barrie's next deal. It leaves very little for 7 forwards and 5 defensemen, even with MacKinnon still on ELC.

Usually what the top teams do is pay their core guys enough and then have a rotating cast around them with cheaper players and young guys.

Given that the cap will be $80M in 4-5 years and Parenteau and Tanguay will be gone then, Avs paying Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Duchene and MacKinnon good salaries will be no problem. Landeskog and Duchene will be semi-bargains by then.

Just look at Penguins. Their problem isn't that they have too many good core forwards. Their problem is that they have too few so they have to pretend Kunitz/Dupuis/Jokinen/Stempniak can get it done and in addition have failed with the surrounding cast.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Usually what the top teams do is pay their core guys enough and then have a rotating cast around them with cheaper players and young guys.

Given that the cap will be $80M in 4-5 years and Parenteau and Tanguay will be gone then, Avs paying Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Duchene and MacKinnon good salaries will be no problem. Landeskog and Duchene will be semi-bargains by then.

Just look at Penguins. Their problem isn't that they have too many good core forwards. Their problem is that they have too few so they have to pretend Kunitz/Dupuis/Jokinen/Stempniak can get it done and in addition have failed with the surrounding cast.

Doing that takes away roster flexibility and depth. Think of it this way: you have four forwards paid like first line players, but only three spots on the first line. That takes money away from some other position (if you're a cap team). That's where salary structure helps keep the team balanced. If they spend an extra million on the top six, that has a big impact on the bottom six, especially with that same money being a much bigger percentage of a bottom six salary.

 

[Freudian]

Doing that takes away roster flexibility and depth. Think of it this way: you have four forwards paid like first line players, but only three spots on the first line. That takes money away from some other position (if you're a cap team). That's where salary structure helps keep the team balanced. If they spend an extra million on the top six, that has a big impact on the bottom six, especially with that same money being a much bigger percentage of a bottom six salary.

What does one line have to do with anything? No top team is a one line team. They're more three line teams with their top players spread out.

Next year Kings top five forwards will be paid over $27M.
Next year Chicagos top five forwards will be paid over $27M (and it will be way more the year after that with Kane and Toews getting new deals).
Next year Bostons top five forwards will be paid over $26M.

If Avs pay O'Reilly and Stastny $6M/year each, Avs top five forwards will be paid $27M with the added benefit of four of those five will not get raises for five years. MacKinnon will eventually earn a bit more than Parenteau's $4M, but by then the cap will be larger.

The best teams keep their talent and find a way to build around them with smart trades and solid drafting. That's what they mean with salary structure. In a cap world the best players are kept and then you have a rotating cast.

 

[CobraAcesS]

What does one line have to do with anything? No top team is a one line team. They're more three line teams with their top players spread out.

Next year Kings top five forwards will be paid over $27M.
Next year Chicagos top five forwards will be paid over $27M (and it will be way more the year after that with Kane and Toews getting new deals).
Next year Bostons top five forwards will be paid over $26M.

If Avs pay O'Reilly and Stastny $6M/year each, Avs top five forwards will be paid $27M with the added benefit of four of those five will not get raises for five years. MacKinnon will eventually earn a bit more than Parenteau's $4M, but by then the cap will be larger.

The best teams keep their talent and find a way to build around them with smart trades and solid drafting. That's what they mean with salary structure. In a cap world the best players are kept and then you have a rotating cast.

Roy also said something about "If you sign to the cap, and need to improve on something. What do you do? You're stuck?"

Not an exact quote, but based on their comments we don't have a 'internal salary cap', and every time someone asks about that Sakic and Roy talk about not being here unless the owners were committed to winning.

 

[Avs For Life]

What does one line have to do with anything? No top team is a one line team. They're more three line teams with their top players spread out.

Next year Kings top five forwards will be paid over $27M.
Next year Chicagos top five forwards will be paid over $27M (and it will be way more the year after that with Kane and Toews getting new deals).
Next year Bostons top five forwards will be paid over $26M.

If Avs pay O'Reilly and Stastny $6M/year each, Avs top five forwards will be paid $27M with the added benefit of four of those five will not get raises for five years. MacKinnon will eventually earn a bit more than Parenteau's $4M, but by then the cap will be larger.

The best teams keep their talent and find a way to build around them with smart trades and solid drafting. That's what they mean with salary structure. In a cap world the best players are kept and then you have a rotating cast.

Great post. Its not a "Duchene cap" its a we want to give you all decent deals and still have some flexibility "cap".

 

[ChibiPooky]

What does one line have to do with anything? No top team is a one line team. They're more three line teams with their top players spread out.

Next year Kings top five forwards will be paid over $27M.
Next year Chicagos top five forwards will be paid over $27M (and it will be way more the year after that with Kane and Toews getting new deals).
Next year Bostons top five forwards will be paid over $26M.

If Avs pay O'Reilly and Stastny $6M/year each, Avs top five forwards will be paid $27M with the added benefit of four of those five will not get raises for five years. MacKinnon will eventually earn a bit more than Parenteau's $4M, but by then the cap will be larger.

The best teams keep their talent and find a way to build around them with smart trades and solid drafting. That's what they mean with salary structure. In a cap world the best players are kept and then you have a rotating cast.

That's exactly the point. Note that all of the teams you mentioned are all around the same number, and all would be considered "deep" teams. If they break that structure, it takes away from the depth. The Avs are right up against that $27M number if both get $6M. More than that and it's starting to affect other positions. Of course the numbers change as the cap changes, but you have to stick to certain self-imposed rules in order to maintain that balance.

 

[Freudian]

That's exactly the point. Note that all of the teams you mentioned are all around the same number, and all would be considered "deep" teams. If they break that structure, it takes away from the depth. The Avs are right up against that $27M number if both get $6M. More than that and it's starting to affect other positions. Of course the numbers change as the cap changes, but you have to stick to certain self-imposed rules in order to maintain that balance.

Avs biggest challenge isn't the top forwards. They're the least of Avs problems. Avs will and should try to keep them all.

Avs challenge is to get enough players on ELCs being good enough to challenge for spots in the future and get solid depth players in free agency. That's where you flesh out your team. When you fail at it (like Pens) you're going nowhere. When you succeed (like Blackhawks and Kings) it makes everything look so easy. Avs drafting needs to provide more depth.

 

[UncleRisto]

You get the sense that the $6mil limit may kind of exist but that doesn't mean it's a Duchene cap but that they need to have space available to improve. And I don't really think either guy should get over 6 million.

You give both Stastny and O'Reilly 5.5-6 million long term and be done with it. The salary cap is going up and that doesn't even increase our payroll by much. If camp O'Reilly wants over 6 million I can understand trading him. Looking at comparables he doesn't warrant more than six. They give both 6 million long-term and I'm very happy with that.

 

[henchman21]

You give both Stastny and O'Reilly 5.5-6 million long term and be done with it. The salary cap is going up and that doesn't even increase our payroll by much. If camp O'Reilly wants over 6 million I can understand trading him. Looking at comparables he doesn't warrant more than six. They give both 6 million long-term and I'm very happy with that.

I'm right in this boat. I'd probably go up to 6.25 on Stastny simply because he is a UFA, but other than that I agree.

 

[Burnaby_Joe*]

You give both Stastny and O'Reilly 5.5-6 million long term and be done with it.

This is exactly what I'm hoping.

 

[tranquiljoe33]

Hi Everyone,

A rumors website ( in French) mentioned that according to these sources the avalanche could announce the signing of Stastny during the next hours.

17. Spezza, Thornton (Joe), Kesler, Stastny, Gagner et les Richards (Mike et Brad) : 7 joueurs de centre qui pourraient changer d’équipe sous peu! LIEN

L’Avalanche pourrait cependant annoncer la signature de Stastny au cours des prochaines heures… #Source

 

[umdieecke*]

Adrian Dater @adater
Sakic says serious talks with Stastny will start next week

In his blog today LeBrun said the Stastny talks are expected to get going in Vegas next week.

Hi Everyone,

A rumors website ( in French) mentioned that according to these sources the avalanche could announce the signing of Stastny during the next hours.

That's great news. I hope it's correct.

Anyone want to guess which of these conflicting reports is most correct?

 

[ChibiPooky]

Avs biggest challenge isn't the top forwards. They're the least of Avs problems. Avs will and should try to keep them all.

Avs challenge is to get enough players on ELCs being good enough to challenge for spots in the future and get solid depth players in free agency. That's where you flesh out your team. When you fail at it (like Pens) you're going nowhere. When you succeed (like Blackhawks and Kings) it makes everything look so easy. Avs drafting needs to provide more depth.

And if they break their salary structure by going up to $6.5M or $7M for O'Reilly, that drastically affects the quality of the depth players they can get. The more you go over your number to keep your top guys, the more pressure it exerts on the team to overperform contracts elsewhere. Instead of needing two guys on ELC, suddenly you need 3 maybe, or a cheap vet having a career season. You don't want to put yourself in that situation, so you stick to your numbers.

 

[Avs71]

That's great news. I hope it's correct.

Anyone want to guess which of these conflicting reports is most correct?

Don't know the track record on the other source, but it's hard not to go against Dater.

Would be so awesome if that was true. Is there a link to that rumour?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It would be fantastic but the fact that it's a rumors website makes me pretty sure it isn't correct. They only rumor websites are people trying to generate attention and bring visitors.

Anyone reputable uses twitter these days, or speaks on a radio/tv show.

 

[hockeyfish]

Hi Everyone,

A rumors website ( in French) mentioned that according to these sources the avalanche could announce the signing of Stastny during the next hours.

But what does the grocery bagger say?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

But what does the grocery bagger say?

Is that Sherman's job?

 

[tranquiljoe33]

As I said this is a site of rumors. usually it is good in its rumors, but this is not a fact! The guys have a many sources in NHL.

Link: http://www.danslescoulisses.com/fr/...r-thornton-2-richards-2-gagner-mise-au-point/

 

[henchman21]

A lot of signs point towards Stastny signing... I'd almost be surprised if something didn't get done.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If Stastny is aware of the "structure" and is still talking then he must be ok with 6. So maybe it's a matter of settling all the other details.