Starting a franchise from scratch: Elias Pettersson or Seth Jones

[tony d]

Seth Jones

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pettersson because I think centers are more valuable than defenseman, but there's no real gap between the two. The only gap is the positional difference, and I don't think the gap between center and defensemen is significant either.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

As an Oilers fan that witnessed one year with Pronger, and 3 years with McDavid, the #1 defenseman all day

 

[Mestaruus]

If the poll options are close as overall hockey players, I'd take the D-man usually, so Seth Jones.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

pettersson AINERC

 

[VoluntaryDom]

pettersson AINERC

petterson has significantly more career GAR than jones despite playing significantly less games. in fact he has almost as much GAR this season as jones does in his career. in fact, jones has never had a season with HALF the GAR of EP's ROOKIE season, and only has 2 seasons (one of them just barely) with 1/3 the GAR of pettersson this year, and also only 2 with 1/3 the GAR of EP's rookie year.

 

[Semantics]

Easily Pettersson. Centers are more important than defensemen.

 

[Nipsey]

The Franchise centre who's just scratching the surface and will be a top 3C in the game.

 

[Sasso09]

Jones and it wasn't that hard to pick for me. Starting a team going forward from scratch Jones is a top 5 pick for me.

The Franchise centre who's just scratching the surface and will be a top 3C in the game.

In a league with super young elite studs like McDavid, Drai, MacKinnon, Eichel, Matthews, Barkov, ETC with guys like lafreniere and others in the wings that's going to be a super unlikely feat.

I'm not really sure what I'm missing with Jones, but he's never seemed as good as his reputation imo. Pettersson is absolutely insane though

You're missing quite a lot

hahahaha people voting for seth jones

and seth jones is winning

LOL

Werenski is better than Jones

Yeah...... I'll take Jones over 3 Werenskis. You're talking about a top 5 defenseman in the league vs like the 30th.

Pettersson is again underrated because he isn’t that flashy kid he was at the start of last season, when he was the most sheltered player in the NHL.

This year he’s developed into (based on results) an elite two-way centre that’s a ~PPG at the tender age of 21. His defensive impact is absurdly good, but somehow it isn’t talked about nearly enough.

Give me Pettersson.

There's 2 or 3 of those in the league and EP ain't it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

You're missing quite a lot

Like what?

 

[supsens]

Easily Pettersson. Centers are more important than defensemen.

I disagree and have no idea why you think that is the case. 1 great dman has a way bigger impact than any forward. Do you think Toronto would have been fighting for a playoff spot with 3 super star Dmen and an average forward group? No chance they would be cruising, Nashville seriously upgraded at center the last couple years and downgraded on D and you sure can tell.

 

[Addison Rae]

There's 2 or 3 of those in the league and EP ain't it.

Who made you the judge of the term elite.

Go look at Pettersson’s two-way results, they’re elite in every sense of the word.

 

[Stealth JD]

Yeah...... I'll take Jones over 3 Werenskis. You're talking about a top 5 defenseman in the league vs like the 30th.

Carlson
Hedman
Pietrangelo
Hamilton
Josi


Which player does Jones bump from that top-5? Not to mention a bunch of other guys in the discussion for top-15 (Makar, Heiskanen, Chabot, Doughty, Ellis, Reilly, Letang, Hughes, Krug, Suter, Burns, Ekblad, Karlsson, Slavin, Parayko, Weber, Klingberg). There are a bunch of really good D-men in the league. Top-5 gets tossed around way too loosely.

 

[Mackinnonen]

This is so close but i went with Jones cause I feel like elite 1D > elite 1C.

 

[EXTRAS]

Jones with no hesitation. No reason to take a career sub-PPG center over a bonafide #1D stud.

I mean Elias petterson is only in his second season. In jones second season he was a career sub 27 point dman...

And even at this point he is a sub .5 pt/gm dman.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Absolutely Jones.

those kind of guys are hard to find. I watch the Canucks oilers and leafs the most next to my sabres so I see Peterson at least 70 games a year (and highlights to each one) live just a few hours from van. I have no doubt he’s going to mature into a much stronger player but when you have EP you need him as your top centre not a second center he’s way too good. And me personally would just choose a stronger top center and build around a team that Already had that great rare gem on the back like Seth. But that’s me

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I mean Elias petterson is only in his second season. In jones second season he was a career sub 27 point dman...

And even at this point he is a sub .5 pt/gm dman.

Probably shouldn’t compare defensemen and centres by points, it’s the subtle things in Jones games. And he’s ep makes great subtle plays too (Garrett will point one out every time it happens just in case
You miss it) but Jones has to log more minutes and tougher minutes.

 

[EXTRAS]

Probably shouldn’t compare defensemen and centres by points, it’s the subtle things in Jones games. And he’s ep makes great subtle plays too (Garrett will point one out every time it happens just in case
You miss it) but Jones has to log more minutes and tougher minutes.

I know. Just thought it was unfair saying a guy isn't over ppg after only 2 years in the NHL. Just like jones took time to develop, most players take time.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

Elias Pettersson. Seth Jones is incredibly overrated. I mentioned this in another thread, but what exactly is the appeal with Jones? He has mediocre analytics, 40 points defenseman (I don't use raw production to evaluate dmen, but I'm just confused about what makes Jones elite), and he doesn't look elite by the eye test, good yes but not elite.

Taking off the homer glasses and looking at it objectively I'd have to go with Jones simply for being the safer bet. A few years older but you know he can be your top guy through the season and into the playoffs. Pettersson can be forgiven for this due to his age but after a flashy start in his rookie season he faded down the stretch, and appears to be doing it again in his 2nd NHL season.

In Pettersson's rookie season, yes he was invisible in the 2nd half of the season. However, in his sophomore season, he has not slowed down. Not sure where you are getting that narrative from.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

petterson has significantly more career GAR than jones despite playing significantly less games. in fact he has almost as much GAR this season as jones does in his career. in fact, jones has never had a season with HALF the GAR of EP's ROOKIE season, and only has 2 seasons (one of them just barely) with 1/3 the GAR of pettersson this year, and also only 2 with 1/3 the GAR of EP's rookie year.

GAR isn't ideal to evaluate forward vs defenseman considering how defensemen have trouble repeating GF, which is a huge part of the methodology. Despite that, the significant gap in GAR between the two player career-wise is certainly worth noting.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

GAR isn't ideal to evaluate forward vs defenseman considering how defensemen have trouble repeating GF, which is a huge part of the methodology. Despite that, the significant gap in GAR between the two player career-wise is certainly worth noting.

rapm doesnt suggest jones to be anything special either, just using GAR to put a single number on it that doesnt take away EP's finishing like xgpm would

 

[Patagonia]

Jones is clearly the best player and when he reaches UFA, he'll be the highest paid DMan in the league. He is that good. EP is also good, but he might not be the best player in his draft year Makar/Heiskanen.

 

[CanadienShark]

This should be Jones quite handily. The gap isn't huge, but it's clear.

 

[Lawzy]

Elias Pettersson. Seth Jones is incredibly overrated. I mentioned this in another thread, but what exactly is the appeal with Jones? He has mediocre analytics, 40 points defenseman (I don't use raw production to evaluate dmen, but I'm just confused about what makes Jones elite), and he doesn't look elite by the eye test, good yes but not elite.


In Pettersson's rookie season, yes he was invisible in the 2nd half of the season. However, in his sophomore season, he has not slowed down. Not sure where you are getting that narrative from.

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. With the exception of the past two games, where Pettersson has been absolutely flying out there, he hasn't looked quite himself in 2020. I certainly wouldn't put it on par with the back half of the 2018-2019 season, but it has been noticeably. Then again, apart from Hughes, Miller, and Markstrom, our entire roster has been MIA since New Years.

 

[typicalsavage]

Carlson
Hedman
Pietrangelo
Hamilton
Josi

Which player does Jones bump from that top-5? Not to mention a bunch of other guys in the discussion for top-15 (Makar, Heiskanen, Chabot, Doughty, Ellis, Reilly, Letang, Hughes, Krug, Suter, Burns, Ekblad, Karlsson, Slavin, Parayko, Weber, Klingberg). There are a bunch of really good D-men in the league. Top-5 gets tossed around way too loosely.

Is this a joke? Jones is legit better than all those guys outside of Hedman. Pietrangelo? Really whats even worse is the players you list afterwards. Jones is better than all of those guys outside of Doughty and the only players even close to him are Reilly, Suter and Parayko.