Confirmed with Link: Stars sign Tyler Pitlick (3 Years, $1.000M AAV)

[Frozen Failure]

I would much rather have a 25 y/o potential tweener in Pitlick rather than any of the guys that Satan compared him to.

Who cares about track record when the guys you're comparing him to are either pushing mid to late 30s, or have washed out of the NHL, or are just as injured with more chronic issues? You don't think teams need Adam Burishes? Guys with drive and willingness to play the damn game?

Between Cracknell and Pitlick, I think we'll be in good shape when it comes to down the lineup effectiveness.

 

[Mr Misty]

I would much rather have a 25 y/o potential tweener in Pitlick rather than any of the guys that Satan compared him to.

Who cares about track record when the guys you're comparing him to are either pushing mid to late 30s, or have washed out of the NHL, or are just as injured with more chronic issues? You don't think teams need Adam Burishes? Guys with drive and willingness to play the damn game?

Between Cracknell and Pitlick, I think we'll be in good shape when it comes to down the lineup effectiveness.

Down the lineup effectiveness doesn't come from players who can't play up the lineup, it comes from pushing actually good players down the lineup. We have McKenzie. We have Cracknell. We have Elie, who scored more points per game than Pitlick. We have Gemel Smith. We shouldn't be looking at the roster and naming 4(!) players who can't play above the 4th line (Flynn Pitlick McKenzie Cracknell) when we have options to get a hugely productive even strength scorer like Hartnell for the same cost.

Satan's list is a taste of the guys who are out there every year, and there are a handful of others like PA Parenteau or Jussi Jokinen still unsigned. There is no justification for going 3 years on any of them, and it is especially egregious considering his injury history and lack of any proven production to date. What are the odds that he is the best of that group this year? Nill is taking that bet, and also a bet that he's the best of the 2018 UFA bargain bin, and the 2019 class as well. It's bonkers.

 

[Dallasman]

​

Down the lineup effectiveness doesn't come from players who can't play up the lineup, it comes from pushing actually good players down the lineup. We have McKenzie. We have Cracknell. We have Elie, who scored more points per game than Pitlick. We have Gemel Smith. We shouldn't be looking at the roster and naming 4(!) players who can't play above the 4th line (Flynn Pitlick McKenzie Cracknell) when we have options to get a hugely productive even strength scorer like Hartnell for the same cost.

Satan's list is a taste of the guys who are out there every year, and there are a handful of others like PA Parenteau or Jussi Jokinen still unsigned. There is no justification for going 3 years on any of them, and it is especially egregious considering his injury history and lack of any proven production to date. What are the odds that he is the best of that group this year? Nill is taking that bet, and also a bet that he's the best of the 2018 UFA bargain bin, and the 2019 class as well. It's bonkers.

And as GM that's what you're supposed to do. Take chances on guys. What exactly is your point? Or are you doing your normal thing, arguing to argue?

 

[Mr Misty]

​

And as GM that's what you're supposed to do. Take chances on guys. What exactly is your point? Or are you doing your normal thing, arguing to argue?

No, you are supposed to take smart chances. I can't tell you how many of these are healthy scratches but here's his hockey db:
16-17: 31 games
15-16: 37 AHL games
14-15: 17+14 AHL games
13-14: 10+ 39 AHL games
12-13: 44 AHL games
About 46% of available games over 5 years. Why take a chance on this guy for 3 years when we have players like Elie who do this more effectively and cost less? He doesn't even have good AHL numbers, Dowling's resume obliterates his.

What about him is worth this money and commitment?

 

[Benneguin]

No, you are supposed to take smart chances. I can't tell you how many of these are healthy scratches but here's his hockey db:
16-17: 31 games
15-16: 37 AHL games
14-15: 17+14 AHL games
13-14: 10+ 39 AHL games
12-13: 44 AHL games
About 46% of available games over 5 years. Why take a chance on this guy for 3 years when we have players like Elie who do this more effectively and cost less? He doesn't even have good AHL numbers, Dowling's resume obliterates his.

What about him is worth this money and commitment?

There's nothing special about what he has done. I'm guessing Nill didn't think any of the guys Satan listed would be happy in the role Pitlick will play and guys like Ellie aren't as valued by the organization That still doesn't explain the term, but maybe someone else was also courting him and he extended the term to seal the deal?

 

[Mr Misty]

There's nothing special about what he has done. I'm guessing Nill didn't think any of the guys Satan listed would be happy in the role Pitlick will play and guys like Ellie aren't as valued by the organization That still doesn't explain the term, but maybe someone else was also courting him and he extended the term to seal the deal?

Don't be in a hurry to be the sucker, let the other GM do that. Save 200-300k and sacrifice .02 ppg by playing McKenzie, Cracknell, or Flynn.

And Nill is in big trouble if he made a crazy reach for Elie with a top 40 pick and is now ready to move on. If he isn't valuing Elie as a possible 4th liner based on his play last year, the Stars have 2 Elie based reasons to get rid of Nill.

 

[LT]

Don't be in a hurry to be the sucker, let the other GM do that. Save 200-300k and sacrifice .02 ppg by playing McKenzie, Cracknell, or Flynn.

And Nill is in big trouble if he made a crazy reach for Elie with a top 40 pick and is now ready to move on. If he isn't valuing Elie as a possible 4th liner based on his play last year, the Stars have 2 Elie based reasons to get rid of Nill.

This is a joke, right?

 

[LT]

Why are we so upset about a signing that so many outsiders are praising?

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Its like going long on 4th and 1. If Pitlick turns into the player he can be, Nill is a genius. If he flops, it was an idiot signing.

Nothing is guaranteed when you are signing players for real, other than some internet troll will think he is smarter than you.

Simply said, Pitlick has potential, as yet unrealized. Maybe, Nill likes that kind of story, that kind of reclamation project. If that is his weakness as a GM, its a fairly minor one. I am not sure this signing is part of a pattern like that, though. Nill likes talented players and signed one.

Ditto the Elie comparison. He has speed and talent, but lacks some tools, so he fell to lower rounds, where Nill saw him as a value pick, like he sees Pitlick as a value signing, a few years ahead of a draft pick on the development curve, which is perfect since he has orders to go all in.

Agreed that the sum total of signings sort of puts the AHL FW core in a similar position as the D with a few too many at the position, about ready to make the NHL. Give a few (hopefully, not as many as last year) injuries, slumps, etc. and those guys will get the call ups, maybe a year later than necessary, but Nill does like to over ripen those guys anyway.

Not sure who they replace in a year.. Spezza in 2, Cracknell, and any injured or traded forwards I guess.

 

[Mr Misty]

Why are we so upset about a signing that so many outsiders are praising?

Why are you making judgements based on what outsiders have said? If this refers to random Oiler fans saying this is a smart move and not other people with actual credibility outside HF, why is their input superior to your own? Nothing I've read elsewhere is bullish about this player, if you have some examples I'd like to read them.

Use the evidence to make your own decision. In one fell swoop we are going to pay this man more than we paid Eaves over the same 3 seasons, who as a rookie had more goals than this player has points. A man who is out of the lineup more than he's in it. A man who shot 14.8%. He may play a fan-friendly style, but why build your hockey team that way? This is a walking red flag. Who will be under contract now for 3 years.

 

[LT]

Why are you making judgements based on what outsiders have said? If this refers to random Oiler fans saying this is a smart move and not other people with actual credibility outside HF, why is their input superior to your own? Nothing I've read elsewhere is bullish about this player, if you have some examples I'd like to read them.

Use the evidence to make your own decision. In one fell swoop we are going to pay this man more than we paid Eaves over the same 3 seasons, who as a rookie had more goals than this player has points. A man who is out of the lineup more than he's in it. A man who shot 14.8%. He may play a fan-friendly style, but why build your hockey team that way? This is a walking red flag. Who will be under contract now for 3 years.

Please explain the downside to this signing.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Why is an Oilers fan input superior to our own? Presumably they have seen him play a bunch of games. They are critical, just like us, so if a few come by to say they think he is worth it, then they think he is worth it.

They weren't as kind about Hemsky, for instance, who had flashes of brilliance but overall, was underwhelming. So, its one type of barometer for us uniformed to judge by pre pre season when we see him.

Pretty simple concept to grasp.

To answer LT question, we know the maximum downside is exactly $3M, if he gets injured in game one, some of which might be covered by insurance policies, I don't know. And, we may keep one AHL forward from graduation to the bigs, at least here.

 

[Mr Misty]

Please explain the downside to this signing.

He can't stay healthy.
He has a spotty record of producing anything even at the AHL level.
He had the 80th highest shooting percentage in the NHL last year and the shooting percentage spike in a contract year is tremendously related to immediate regret about that contract. If our GM got hoodwinked by this it would be fair to fire him for incompetence.
He's on the books for more seasons than all players except Benn Radulov Hanzal Klingberg and Bishop.
We are going to be right against the cap and having a player who makes less would give us more flexibility.
We could have had a better player for that cap hit without giving 3 years.
We still could have a better player for that cap hit, also for 1 year not 3.
He is not going to be waived because Nill doesn't do that so he will be clinging to the roster like a barnacle for all 3 years.
In the unlikely event he was waived, his AHL resume is bad and we could have a better and cheaper AHL forward on a 1 year deal without any trouble.
We have prospects that are better and more deserving of those NHL minutes by all measures of such things who will not be in the NHL because of him.
Any kind of long term planning suggests that our depth chart will soon be Radulov, Gurianov, Nichushkin, Ritchie, Pitlick so the spot he is being signed to take will probably not be there starting next year and he will be headed for healthy scratch town in the unlikely event he can stay healthy.
The possibility exists that he will sit in Gurianov's spot who will have to go to Nichushkin's spot and this will make Val not come back to the NHL.
The possibility exists that we trade one of those players to make room for him which may be the most ass backwards idea ever.

If turnabout is indeed fair play, please describe the upside.

 

[David Castillo]

I hated the signing at first, warmed up to it, and now it's going back to be a little obnoxious. My main issue is that Elie spent a lot of time in Texas at right wing. Dickinson-Shore-Elie was a thing in Texas, and it was 1st line good. That would be an excellent 4th line in the NHL, and at least two of them can PK very well so it's not like your sacrificing what you usually do with 4th line forwards.

 

[LT]

He can't stay healthy.

Fair.

He has a spotty record of producing anything even at the AHL level.

85 points in 196 games isn't bad at all. We also didn't sign him so that he could produce in the AHL.

He had the 80th highest shooting percentage in the NHL last year and the shooting percentage spike in a contract year is tremendously related to immediate regret about that contract. If our GM got hoodwinked by this it would be fair to fire him for incompetence.

Which is 14.8%. Hardly an inflated shooting percentage, especially considering his style of play and where most of his shots are coming from (the front of the net).

He's on the books for more seasons than all players except Benn Radulov Hanzal Klingberg and Bishop.

Why is this a problem?

We are going to be right against the cap and having a player who makes less would give us more flexibility.

Are we? Sure hasn't been a problem for a while. And if so, I'm not sure how a player making 1M is going to make that potential situation that much worse.

We could have had a better player for that cap hit without giving 3 years.

Such as? You have to remember that FA is not just teams signing players they want. The players have to want to come here as well. It's very possible that Nill explored other options, they weren't interested, and so he went with Pitlick.

We still could have a better player for that cap hit, also for 1 year not 3.

See previous answer.

He is not going to be waived because Nill doesn't do that so he will be clinging to the roster like a barnacle for all 3 years.

This is an assumption and there's really nothing to support this. I feel like you're grasping at straws with this one.

In the unlikely event he was waived, his AHL resume is bad and we could have a better and cheaper AHL forward on a 1 year deal without any trouble.

Who cares about this? We're signing AHL forwards out the wazoo already.

We have prospects that are better and more deserving of those NHL minutes by all measures of such things who will not be in the NHL because of him.

If they really are, then they'll force Nill's hand at camp this Fall. Extra internal competition is never a bad thing.

Any kind of long term planning suggests that our depth chart will soon be Radulov, Gurianov, Nichushkin, Ritchie, Pitlick so the spot he is being signed to take will probably not be there starting next year and he will be headed for healthy scratch town in the unlikely event he can stay healthy.

Again, more internal competition. Many wingers (especially someone like Pitlick) can transition to the opposite wing quite easily, as well. If he does play well, opens us up for the possibility of a trade. Nothing negative there.

The possibility exists that we trade one of those players to make room for him which may be the most ass backwards idea ever.

What makes that backwards? Why couldn't we trade him? Think less linearly.

If turnabout is indeed fair play, please describe the upside.[/QUOTE]

This is a guy who could have 20 goals and play anywhere in our lineup. He brings intensity and plays hard. And if he does manage to stay healthy and play as many seem to expect him to, we've got him signed for 3 years at a very cheap cap hit.

 

[Troy McClure]

This isn't some impossible to escape contract. If he sucks, getting rid of him will be easy. There is no risk.

 

[Mr Misty]

This is a guy who could have 20 goals and play anywhere in our lineup. He brings intensity and plays hard. And if he does manage to stay healthy and play as many seem to expect him to, we've got him signed for 3 years at a very cheap cap hit.

This possibility does not have the same likelihood of any other possibility, this is not rolling a 1 vs a 6. You are saying he could do 2 things he has literally never even been close to doing. He's never even had a 10 goal season as a pro. He hasn't played in 40 games in a season since 14-15. Never even been close to a full season. Jagr has a better chance of doing both because he's done it before. Cammaleri has too. Pouliot, Hartnell, Hemsky, Sharp, Jokinen. PA Parenteau had a 20 goal season 2 years ago and no contract now. Iginla and Doan have a better chance. All players in that tax bracket or without a deal that I would bet on having that 20 goal and healthy season before Pitlick. Even Brian Flynn is a better bet, he doesn't get in a full season but he had a .71ppg AHL year, miles better than any Pitlick season. And it keeps on going, Gurianov could have a 20 goal season, his career high as a pro is more than Pitlick's. Dickinson also. Gemel Smith has 3 more years of double digit goals as a pro. Cole Ully, Mark McNeil. There are dozens of better gambles. This one could pay off but it won't because he gets more than 2 hits per game because he doesn't have the puck and his body can't handle the strain.

Quibbles: If his shooting is sustainable why does he have 39 goals as a pro? His AHL numbers don't suggest a player who can shoot 14.8% for any length of time.
Nill doesn't waive people. He kept 8 defensemen and sent Faksa down about 5 times. I may be missing somebody, but my count is Connauton and Schlemko lost to waivers with the latter being a same season claim so not really counting IMO. Pitlick is here to stay for 3 years, and if Faksa's play didn't get him a spot through competition then nothing is going to.
When he gets injured, we won't have much space to call somebody up. And we are rolling with some new folks who don't play in 82 games in addition to the guys we had last year. IR doesn't really save you and that will be wasted cap that can't be used in a trade.

 

[Mr Misty]

This isn't some impossible to escape contract. If he sucks, getting rid of him will be easy. There is no risk.

50% of Nill's tenure has involved carrying at least 1 worthless defenseman and sometimes 2 because he is afraid of losing that abysmal player to waivers. To the detriment of on ice success in Faksa's case.

This is the risk you want to sign up for? You are not at all afraid?

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

50% of Nill's tenure has involved carrying at least 1 worthless defenseman and sometimes 2 because he is afraid of losing that abysmal player to waivers. To the detriment of on ice success in Faksa's case.

This is the risk you want to sign up for? You are not at all afraid?

Wait, Faska was getting us better than 1st in the West in the regular season? Despite playing all playoff games? This dude can be waived like yesterdays garbage. You are playing contrarian to a non-existent problem.

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

Also, his last name still grosses me out.

 

[Mr Misty]

Wait, Faska was getting us better than 1st in the West in the regular season? Despite playing all playoff games? This dude can be waived like yesterdays garbage. You are playing contrarian to a non-existent problem.

We won the division in the last game of the season. Maybe it wouldn't have been so tight if Faksa was around more.

To be clear, you are not disagreeing with the notion that Nill demoted Faksa to preserve Oleksiak or Nemeth. Nor are you disagreeing that this made the team worse. You are saying that with hindsight it turned out OK so who cares.

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

We won the division in the last game of the season. Maybe it wouldn't have been so tight if Faksa was around more.

To be clear, you are not disagreeing with the notion that Nill demoted Faksa to preserve Oleksiak or Nemeth. Nor are you disagreeing that this made the team worse. You are saying that with hindsight it turned out OK so who cares.

No I am not. No am I not (re the 2015-2016 first half of the regular season). Yes, I am saying who cares.

And your point is what? We can't send down Pitlick? The amount of wins we could have had in 2015-2016 could have been marginally better, but clearly without better final results? You are *****ing about a $1M contract that at most hampers a team 1/75th of cap space. And more than likely a worst case scenario costs the owner $3M and the team $0 in cap space. Edit to say: if Oleksiak and Nemeth were both 21 and 22 again, yes, I would expect Nill to protect his exposed assets instead of revealing them for non difference makers.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

When did Nill ever demote Faksa in favor of the two D men? And, how could he, since they don't play the same position?

He came up in the latter half of the 15-16 season and has been a fixture since? Are you saying him taking the full three years of his ELC to make the NHL because Nill favored others, and not part of Nill's general over ripening policy?

You again seem overly argumentative. Radulov at 5/$6.25 could be questioned, but Pitlick at 3$3M is a bit ridiculous to steam about, for all the reasons mentioned, even for a passionate Stars fan.

 

[joestevens29]

Why is an Oilers fan input superior to our own? Presumably they have seen him play a bunch of games. They are critical, just like us, so if a few come by to say they think he is worth it, then they think he is worth it.

They weren't as kind about Hemsky, for instance, who had flashes of brilliance but overall, was underwhelming. So, its one type of barometer for us uniformed to judge by pre pre season when we see him.

Pretty simple concept to grasp.

To answer LT question, we know the maximum downside is exactly $3M, if he gets injured in game one, some of which might be covered by insurance policies, I don't know. And, we may keep one AHL forward from graduation to the bigs, at least here.

I have to think what we said about Hemsky was pretty accurate.

I guess my question is what exactly does that maximum downside mean to fans though? Lets say that none of it is covered by insurance. Is Dallas in that tight that they can't afford 1mil a year? I think the biggest downside is he takes 1 of 50 contract spots, and even at that I don't know that I'd be overly worried about that.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Yes, we think you guys were right on, too! Hemsky was signed because we needed RW (some things never change, I guess) and he had a hot run with Spezza after traded to OTT. The hope was that chemistry would continue.

That is actually the type of thinking by GM's that drives me crazy, as Hemsky's longer term record was more indicative of how he played here. Of course, you could say that about Pitlick, and Misty is, but again, the maximum downside is less than one year of Hemsky's contract, so no big whup.

To answer your question, we are now against the cap, but could trade a fringe D man or two for picks to open that up. Galardi seems to have the money to "waste" on hockey players and willing to spend it, so in that sense, the Stars have no budget problems that are apparent.