GDT: Stars @ Caps - 4/1/2014 - April Caps Fan Day.

Brian23

Registered User
Dec 3, 2011
5,687
2,506
Ovechkin needs to be subjected to actual constructive criticism by a coach. Oates likes to "communicate," but he's not capable of delivering potentially unwelcome messages directly to someone like Ovechkin because that would require the leveraging of more social respect than he's able to command. Oates resigns himself to the abstract and manages psychological things by moving pieces around and counting on messages to be transmitted. So if he needs to get a non-ego-stroking message across to Ovechkin, for example, he does it passive aggressively: he makes him play with Jay Beagle and Joey Crabb.

Hunter was obviously a different animal, but to some extent the way things operated was the same. The demands he made of Ovechkin were implicit. It wasn't passive aggressive like Oates, but it could only be constructive if Ovechkin made it so on his own. Obviously what the ultimate outcome there would've been can't be known.

What? Hunter didn't convey anything to Ovechkin and that was the problem, he didn't speak to anyone. He sat him on the bench and road his grinders, he went into the trap hardcore super passive and made games coin flips. He didn't promote anything, he didn't do anything for the players on this team, he just made them play the simplest system and sent them to war.


I still think this team has a solid nucleus for anyone with vision and a veteran coach, but they need someone who has a message and a defined system.
 

artilector

Registered User
Jan 11, 2006
8,351
1,187
I dunno if this team, even after plugging obvious holes, can be a true contender "as is". Because we haven't seen any evidence that the core of Ovi/Backstrom/Green can be effective in anything but BB offense, and we haven't seen any evidence that even BB offense can really contend, i.e. beat 4 disciplined, hard-nosed teams in a row. (since every effin NHL team plays the same way nowadays).

That's why, while I'd be ok with plugging holes and giving it another try under new management, I'd be just as ok with closing the young-guns era and retooling around a quite promising Holtby-Grubs-Carlson-Alzner-Orlov-Kuz-Wilson future core.
 

Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
187,272
20,700
Chicagoland
Ovechkin needs to be subjected to actual constructive criticism by a coach. Oates likes to "communicate," but he's not capable of delivering potentially unwelcome messages directly to someone like Ovechkin because that would require the leveraging of more social respect than he's able to command. Oates resigns himself to the abstract and manages psychological things by moving pieces around and counting on messages to be transmitted. So if he needs to get a non-ego-stroking message across to Ovechkin, for example, he does it passive aggressively: he makes him play with Jay Beagle and Joey Crabb.

Hunter was obviously a different animal, but to some extent the way things operated was the same. The demands he made of Ovechkin were implicit. It wasn't passive aggressive like Oates, but it could only be constructive if Ovechkin made it so on his own. Obviously what the ultimate outcome there would've been can't be known.

Curious how often have coaches benched Ovechkin in games?

In Chicago Q has in past benched Kane/Sharp (Both were benched for 2 periods in same game in 2009) and Seabrook in games

Seabrook got benched last year in game 4 vs Wings for his poor play. Only played 12 minutes (Compared to 30 minutes of Keith). From the next game thru game 6 of Finals he was normal Seabrook

Sometimes it is best for a coach to let his player know how poorly he is playing and have him sit there for 2 periods watching from bench

Have any of Ovechkin's coaches ever sat him for 2 periods to send a message? I honestly cant recall him being benched for a prolonged period of hockey
 

Capathetic

Registered User
May 26, 2011
3,338
247
When I watch the Caps I see a team that McPhee wants to be the Boston Bruins so bad.Physically the Caps are in fine shape and on paper one of the bigger teams in the league. However it's the hands that seperates them from Boston.

In fact Boston's 4th line has better passing and cycling than whatever Oates decides to call line one here in DC.

Until they get that part of the game figured out it will always be dump and watch hockey. Put on the playoff tape vs Montreal and that Caps team could cycle and pass. This version looks lost out there 85% of the time.
 

terranraida

#RyanGetzlafIsASaint
Feb 27, 2014
3,613
1,680
Richmond, VA
I guess Ovetchkin and them are ready to practice their hockey swings on the golf course based on that performance. It was good to see Grabovski on the ice again, though. Shame I didn't go with my friends to the game last night, but at the same time, I'm not sure I would want to see that "performance" live. :shakehead
 

DanTHEMan71

Registered User
Feb 23, 2010
437
87
Put on the playoff tape vs Montreal

I can't. Every time I watch that series I get this queasy feeling in my stomach reminding me of what could have been.

For all the OV bashers, I know some can agree that OV doesn't give nearly as much effort on D and some will excuse that and say he's just doing that to preserve himself for offence. Either way, OV's lack of defence is not the root of the problem.

All of this **** starts from the top and works down. OV is not motivated to play his best because our staff is terrible. The only good department of our staff is the scouting. He realizes that this organization, with this current staff, CAN'T be successful. They never will be. He knows there's nothing he or any of the other stars can do to turn this around, other than what they're doing now, which is giving up and just coasting till summer. They know if we make the playoffs, things might stay the same for another 2 years, probably even get worse.

Not only is McPhee not giving Oates enough tools to win, but also Oates isn't correctly using the tools he already has.

The whole team is losing confidence in McPhee (if they haven't already), Oates and each other. I bet Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green, Carlson, and Alzner have been quite depressed since BB left and their production shows that. The only reason OV made a slight bounce back last year is because he was still in the "honeymoon stage" with Oates after having such a terrible, alienating experience with Hunter.

Now reality is setting back in and OV realizes this team is much worse and less deep than we were. He knows the current staff doesn't know how to fix it. He's given up and coasting and I don't blame him. As a result, all aspects of his game are deteriorating.

I know he still has it in him to be great but until we don't completely change the staff, he'll remain a mental case. Immense pressure with no hope in sight.

This team never had the balls to push it all the way when OV, Backstrom, and Green were in their primes and now we're suffering a long road of mediocrity that only ends in tanks/rebuilds. If it keeps going this way, NONE of our current stars will retire in Washington.

We need to miss the playoffs big time. Otherwise things won't change or won't change enough and we'll stay mediocre.

Personally, I can't wait for this year to be over where we'll be sitting 5th-7th in the Metro, excitingly waiting for Ted's presser where he announces that he won't be resigning McPhee. Then we get to watch a trembling Oates talk to the media scared of whether or not the new GM will keep him.

Personally, I think Oates should be kept as an assistant/PP coach because he is very analytical and cerebral and he has done good things with our PP. However, he's just too PC and gentlemanly to be a head coach. You can tell he doesn't fire up his troops and barely shows emotion. You need a coach that grabs the attention of the locker room and not some short little suit who says all the right things to the media. Also his system has been accused of being too complicated. That's a telling sign that maybe Oates is in over his head and should just stick to the PP. He's better suited to be a behind the scenes guy, dishing out advice to the head coach.

Question for next year: Laviolette or Torts?
 
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terranraida

#RyanGetzlafIsASaint
Feb 27, 2014
3,613
1,680
Richmond, VA
he's just too PC and gentlemanly to be a head coach.

He was probably groomed by Disney, since they had a big hand in how the Mighty Ducks acted, from what I understand Disney tried it's damnest to make a team of angels on ice. Obviously that didn't work all too well..




Question for next year: Laviolette or Torts?

Neither. Let's hire a random off the street, from what I've seen in movies, it'll be a hidden gem riddled with trials and tribulation, but ultimately triumph.
 
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RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
34,795
7,123
I watched 2 goals on replay. The 2 on none. And then the one when 4 caps do nothing until the goal is scored, and Brown comes over and pancakes someone. Of course, he did that bucking the system.

Is it Calle preaching hit no one? What the hell are they doing?

Oates has turned out to be a disaster. I honestly cannot remember this sloppy of play... maybe since the early 1980s. Maybe 70's.

And yes, Boston's 4th line would be our best line.
 

BiPolar Caps

Registered User
Feb 9, 2010
9,585
2,774
NOVA
Set the charges, fire in the hole!!!!

Too many disappointments to cite except for one, why didn't one of the poor ******** that actually attended the game last night go EDMONTON on this organization and toss a Caps jersey on the ice. Might of gotten some attention then from at least some folks in this ****in organization.
 

BobRouse

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
10,144
373
Glad I missed this game. Sounds like it was brutal.

I had visions of such a result and that the team quit on Oates.
 

Liberati0n*

Guest
What? Hunter didn't convey anything to Ovechkin and that was the problem, he didn't speak to anyone. He sat him on the bench and road his grinders, he went into the trap hardcore super passive and made games coin flips. He didn't promote anything, he didn't do anything for the players on this team, he just made them play the simplest system and sent them to war.


I still think this team has a solid nucleus for anyone with vision and a veteran coach, but they need someone who has a message and a defined system.

What in my post are you responding to? I said Hunter's messages were implicit. Play Beagle 20 minutes and Ovechkin 14; "play defense or you sit." I was saying it was a bad thing.

Blackhawkswincup said:
Curious how often have coaches benched Ovechkin in games?

In Chicago Q has in past benched Kane/Sharp (Both were benched for 2 periods in same game in 2009) and Seabrook in games

Seabrook got benched last year in game 4 vs Wings for his poor play. Only played 12 minutes (Compared to 30 minutes of Keith). From the next game thru game 6 of Finals he was normal Seabrook

Sometimes it is best for a coach to let his player know how poorly he is playing and have him sit there for 2 periods watching from bench

Have any of Ovechkin's coaches ever sat him for 2 periods to send a message? I honestly cant recall him being benched for a prolonged period of hockey
The Capitals aren't a real organization, so it doesn't work like that. Ovechkin is bigger than the team and couldn't be benched. That's partly because he's so much better than players like Kane and Sharp and benchings would be huge news stories and more because the organization is run so horribly.
 

SnowblindNYR

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Nov 16, 2011
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Guys, Rangers fan coming in peace, I saw someone asked if Torts should be hired, I don't think you guys want that. It's hard for me to **** on Torts a day after his team outplayed mine pretty significantly (though true to Torts form they still scored 1 goal and lost), but you'll have the same team as your 11-12 team, no offense, hard to watch. You're not going to win anything with Torts as coach and you'll be bored to tears. Ovechkin will likely go back to 30 goal form and your PP will likely become mediocre (not bad because they have too much talent for that, but middle of the road). Lavi is probably a better choice, but he seems to lose his teams.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Guys, Rangers fan coming in peace, I saw someone asked if Torts should be hired, I don't think you guys want that. It's hard for me to **** on Torts a day after his team outplayed mine pretty significantly (though true to Torts form they still scored 1 goal and lost), but you'll have the same team as your 11-12 team, no offense, hard to watch. You're not going to win anything with Torts as coach and you'll be bored to tears. Ovechkin will likely go back to 30 goal form and your PP will likely become mediocre (not bad because they have too much talent for that, but middle of the road). Lavi is probably a better choice, but he seems to lose his teams.

I'll take a few good years of Lavi before he loses his teams over the **** I watched last night any day of the week. Good luck against the Flyers in the play-offs.
 

SnowblindNYR

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I'll take a few good years of Lavi before he loses his teams over the **** I watched last night any day of the week. Good luck against the Flyers in the play-offs.

Thanks. If McDonagh is hurt for a significant amount of time we're ****ed though.

BTW, I agree about Lavi. He's a good coach, I even liked him on the Islanders. Plus his teams are exciting. With Torts you won't win **** and will be frustrated and bored. The 11-12 run for the Rangers to the ECF had to be the most frustrating, boring, and least impressive in NHL history. They should have lost to both Ottawa and Washington, the 7 and 8 seeds. They were definitely outplayed against Ottawa and to a lesser extent Washington. Outside of game 7, rookie Dale Hunter out-Tortsed Torts and he wasn't even that great of a coach IMO. Yet Rangers fans still worship that team. I guess you guys would take an ECF berth right about now, but everything had to go right for that team to make it there and it was still painful to watch. You don't want Torts. Ask Canucks fans what they think of him.
 

DanTHEMan71

Registered User
Feb 23, 2010
437
87
You don't want Torts. Ask Canucks fans what they think of him.

Yea you're probably right. I can't see our pampered players like OV, Backstrom, Green, Mojo, etc, getting along very well with Torts. Lavi seems much more versatile and approachable.
 

RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
34,795
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''Just go out there and have fun.''

Not really a winning system.

What system do you think Bruce implemented overnight that was a winning system?

Cellar - to our classic game 7 loss at home. Bruce zero to hero. People still miss him.
 

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,209
5,238
What system do you think Bruce implemented overnight that was a winning system?

Cellar - to our classic game 7 loss at home. Bruce zero to hero. People still miss him.

Clean entries through the own zone, D's constantly joining the rush, attack with speed through the neutral zone and playing as 5-man unit?

I wouldn't really call his system ''Just go out there and have fun'' though... he certainly let them hear it when they were playing like they don't even care.
 

SashaSemin28

My Krasnaya Mashina
Mar 11, 2013
2,874
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Darwen, England.
Personally, I think Oates should be kept as an assistant/PP coach because he is very analytical and cerebral and he has done good things with our PP. However, he's just too PC and gentlemanly to be a head coach. You can tell he doesn't fire up his troops and barely shows emotion. You need a coach that grabs the attention of the locker room and not some short little suit who says all the right things to the media. Also his system has been accused of being too complicated. That's a telling sign that maybe Oates is in over his head and should just stick to the PP. He's better suited to be a behind the scenes guy, dishing out advice to the head coach.

Question for next year: Laviolette or Torts?


Isn't it Forsyth who has dealt with the PP primarily?

also Laviolette and its not even close, I would refuse to watch this team with Torts
 

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