Post-Game Talk: Star VS Yotes #56 (Over 1000)

[YotesFan47]

Our problem isn't low end talent, which is what all those low end picks would bring. Our problem is high end talent. Our 4th line is quite good. Our top lines are not so good. We need a few high end players to fill out our first and second line. Hanzal could anchor a defensive 3rd line to throw at top lines of other teams. Vermette and Ribs would be okay top line centers if only they had top end talent to surround them.

Yandle was a 4th rounder, no reason to believe we can't find other gems in late rounds. We basically just have to "spray and pray". I agree about the top end talent, the problem seems to be us acquiring that talent. So far DM hasn't done anything to make me believe he's going to be able to get something done this year. If we are going to miss the playoffs and won't be getting a top 6 talent then let's do a mini fire sale on the low end guys and make a BIG wish.

 

[Muppet]

God damn, another loss for the Phoenix Vermette's. I just don't understand this team anymore. Amazing 60 minute effort against the Easts top team, and then they **** the bed against Dallas in a game that is actually important. I want to know what is going on in that dressing room, because something isn't right.

 

[Vip]

Holy crap

You guys cruelly got over 1000. Awesome.

 

[Summer Rose]

Am now awake and not heavily intoxicated anymore.

Still don't understand how we got over 1000 and still don't understand what the hell happened in the game. I had 81 posts in the thread despite being at the game. I think I spent more time posting from my phone than I did watching the game, hah.

My wallet hurts from all the booze I bought at the arena. Total bill was $86. For that plus parking and my ticket I could nearly have just sat on the glass instead.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Can't remember if I asked this last night, I was heavily intoxicated by the end of the game. What happened to Bizz?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Yandle was a 4th rounder, no reason to believe we can't find other gems in late rounds. We basically just have to "spray and pray". I agree about the top end talent, the problem seems to be us acquiring that talent. So far DM hasn't done anything to make me believe he's going to be able to get something done this year. If we are going to miss the playoffs and won't be getting a top 6 talent then let's do a mini fire sale on the low end guys and make a BIG wish.

I don't know. The concern I have with your idea is that we get mired in the "NBA Purgatory" of always being just in or out of the playoffs, never a real threat to make the finals. If Maloney is going to blow up the team, then he should do it all the way and let us pick up 2 or 3 years of top 5 picks.

Now, if we had the scouting and GM skills of Detroit, I would be fine with your "spray and pray". Otherwise, it seems more like a tomcat fantasy.

Hey, this is fun!

 

[azcanuck]

One of the worst efforts of the year.

Very good teams can mail it in and still win. The coyotes dont have the talent.

This team can pull off a big win like anyteam can. But it simply doesnt have the talent to win consistantly without supreme effort every night.

 

[zz]

The lack of heart and hard work is so disappointing. I was really excited to see this team build an identity over the past few years. I don't understand what happened. Vermette seems to be the only one consistently bringing everything he's got this season.

I guess the silver lining is goaltending wasn't the issue at least?

 

[awfulwaffle]

If the team in front of Smith plays well, along with Smith, we can be a scary team. We just haven't been able to have both goalie and the team in front play well consistently. It's so frustrating.

 

[cobra427]

One of the worst efforts of the year.

Very good teams can mail it in and still win. The coyotes dont have the talent.

This team can pull off a big win like anyteam can. But it simply doesnt have the talent to win consistantly without supreme effort every night.

I was at the game with great seats. The good news is that Smith looked pretty good all night. The most important thing for this team is his play, and I hope it continues. If it does we have a chance. Our PK has been getting better too, another good sign.

On the team: It seems like teams above us, L.A., Pitt, take us lightly, but we do not take them lightly, and we play harder against them. Teams below us: Calgary, Buffalo, Dallas, we take them lightly, they don't, we don't play hard enough, they do, and we loose.

I don't think our major problem is talent, I think it is effort. I do think a trade or two, and team shake up could help us though. The yoyo play from game to game, Tip shuffleing line conbo's, moving deck chairs with AHL players in and out, Tip is running out of mirrors.

Ribs needs other line mates to be effective, Hanzel/Verby need somebody else on their line to be effective. So close, yet so far away, hard to make heads or tails of the team right now....

 

[YotesFan47]

I don't know. The concern I have with your idea is that we get mired in the "NBA Purgatory" of always being just in or out of the playoffs, never a real threat to make the finals. If Maloney is going to blow up the team, then he should do it all the way and let us pick up 2 or 3 years of top 5 picks.

Now, if we had the scouting and GM skills of Detroit, I would be fine with your "spray and pray". Otherwise, it seems more like a tomcat fantasy.

Hey, this is fun!

Oh we could definitely end up with nothing in return but busts but while that's a risk, we are also sending a message to the locker room that lack of effort won't be tolerated. We can do that without giving up significant pieces too. We have a capable squad, missing a few top 6 wingers, but we can play with the upper tier of teams, we just don't seem to want to. Maybe we get real lucky and both send the message which returns results and a gem or 2.

 

[ck26]

Now, if we had the scouting and GM skills of Detroit, I would be fine with your "spray and pray". Otherwise, it seems more like a tomcat fantasy.

Detroit's "skills" are a thing of legend on hf but they're completely random. If the Wings had ANY idea of what Pavel Datsyuk was going to be, they wouldn't have drafted 6 players with a combined 2 career NHL games before they drafted Datsyuk. Same with Zetterberg (3 guys, 32 games). They played the Cold War card well, spent a ton of money and we're seeing their slide back to mediocrity playing out the last couple years.

Adding extra picks never hurts -- Lessio, Gormley and Visintin picks were all acquired -- and the more kids you have, the better your chances of them panning out. I've never researched this, but it seems like a team that can regularly sign useful veteran forwards to short-term deals before flipping them at the deadline could gain a huge, long-term advantage. Players like Klesla, Fiddler, Gordon and Torres are exactly the sort of useful bottom-9 / bottom-4 players who teams look for, and to that point, if there's a deal to be made for Moss or Halpern (or Vrbata and Morris, if we fall back from playoff contention), that'd be a no-brainer to me in March.

The only question I have right now is GMDM's long-term vision. We all loved Ribeiro's signing at the time and most of us still do, but I can't think of a forward more dissimilar to Doan and Hanzal, and I wonder if that (and the hockey we've seen this year) suggests the Coyotes of 2012 are never coming back because that's not where GMDM wants the team to go. Having a clear, consistent blueprint from the NHL to your CHL scouts (and drafting and developing players who fit that blueprint) is a better way to ensure your picks pan out than applying the Detroit Special Sauce.

You only get the Crosbys and the Stamkoses by sucking (or by getting opportunistic like Dallas did with Seguin last summer and finding a stud who is in a bad situation), but there are more than enough players. The core young group of OEL, Yandle, Hanzal, Domi, Murphy and maybe Gormley stacks up just fine to the rest of the NHL from now until 2019 or so, as long as the team identity is solid and the right complimentary pieces are around them. You don't need lottery picks to get the complimentary pieces.

 

[XX]

Detroit's "skills" are a thing of legend on hf but they're completely random. If the Wings had ANY idea of what Pavel Datsyuk was going to be, they wouldn't have drafted 6 players with a combined 2 career NHL games before they drafted Datsyuk. Same with Zetterberg (3 guys, 32 games).

They were actually the only ones to ever really scout those two guys, and had the inside track. Drafting them in later rounds is smart. Did they know they were going to be All-world types? Probably not, but they had a good hunch they should have been way, way higher.

And drafting doesn't mean **** if you can't develop the players once they get into your system. Few players have the raw talent to make it to the next level in a bad developmental environment. Our organization is still TGO era mickey mouse in that regard. That a few D have made it in recent years really is nothing to sing about. Extra stabs at the draft are great, but don't matter if you are funneling them into a system that encourages failure.

The AHL team needs to be better (competitive) and Tippett needs to stop giving the quick hook to players. When I watched 24/7 with the Wings the thing I was most impressed by was the support Babcock gave to Tatar. He wasn't afraid to throw him on the top line and encourage him. Chris Brown gets his first callup, takes a meh penalty, then gets his ass stapled to the bench. It's just dumb.

Domi's chances at success are lowered due to the type of coach Tippett is. In most other organizations, it wouldn't be an issue. But because you have a coach who is allergic to one way players, it becomes an issue here. He probably has the skill and attitude to survive it, but it's still sad to see a coach say "the NHL isn't for development, the AHL is" in the year 2014.

 

[Etch]

Wow, I had a ton of schoolwork pile up so didn't get to tune in for last nights game, now I check and we have about 8 million posts which I can't catch up on, haha.

Can anyone sum up the game/reason for so many posts? I see we got outshot badly...

 

[CC96]

Wow, I had a ton of schoolwork pile up so didn't get to tune in for last nights game, now I check and we have about 8 million posts which I can't catch up on, haha.

Can anyone sum up the game/reason for so many posts? I see we got outshot badly...

We had so many posts, because we wanted to reach #thugstatus.

To summarize the game: Mike Smith was pretty good, the refs made a few iffy calls against us, the D was okay but had a few major mental lapses, and the offense and special teams decided not to show up at all.

 

[JTPoni23]

Happy Birthday Poni. Congrats on turning (17? I remember you saying you were in high school?) Hope you had a good one, man.

Thanks. Had a great day other than the game last night haha, and yup 17. Youngest Yotes HFer?

 

[CC96]

Thanks. Had a great day other than the game last night haha, and yup 17. Youngest Yotes HFer?

I would imagine so. I guess you took the crown from me.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

Thanks. Had a great day other than the game last night haha, and yup 17. Youngest Yotes HFer?

i was 17 when the "Miracle on Ice" happened.

 

[letowskie]

If the team in front of Smith plays well, along with Smith, we can be a scary team. We just haven't been able to have both goalie and the team in front play well consistently. It's so frustrating.

The lack of consistency is due a large part to the lack of depth in our forward ranks. To expect the same small group of top forwards to perform exactly the same every game is not realistic. Top teams almost always have significant depth and redundancy, so different lines and combinations can pick up the slack at different times during the season. When you Rib playing with slugs like Moss and Klink, it's not a good sign.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Thanks. Had a great day other than the game last night haha, and yup 17. Youngest Yotes HFer?

Happy birthday! I love your avatar.

 

[JTPoni23]

Happy birthday! I love your avatar.

Thanks, and I hope to keep my avatar for a long time haha.

i was 17 when the "Miracle on Ice" happened.

I just finished Grade 11 University American History last semester here in Canada. My teacher who was in his 50's, had never heard of the Miracle on Ice. How do you teach American History and not know what that is? So I decided to do my final 10 page paper for the course on how Miracle on Ice impacted American history. Got a 94.

 

[Desert Ice 11]

I just finished Grade 11 University American History last semester here in Canada. My teacher who was in his 50's, had never heard of the Miracle on Ice. How do you teach American History and not know what that is? So I decided to do my final 10 page paper for the course on how Miracle on Ice impacted American history. Got a 94.

Good work dude. Student became Teacher..for 10 pages

 

[Mosby]

Dallas got an OT point last night and is now tied with us in total points. We have the tie breaker with one less game played. Need to get our ***** in gear.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Detroit's "skills" are a thing of legend on hf but they're completely random. If the Wings had ANY idea of what Pavel Datsyuk was going to be, they wouldn't have drafted 6 players with a combined 2 career NHL games before they drafted Datsyuk. Same with Zetterberg (3 guys, 32 games). They played the Cold War card well, spent a ton of money and we're seeing their slide back to mediocrity playing out the last couple years.

Adding extra picks never hurts -- Lessio, Gormley and Visintin picks were all acquired -- and the more kids you have, the better your chances of them panning out. I've never researched this, but it seems like a team that can regularly sign useful veteran forwards to short-term deals before flipping them at the deadline could gain a huge, long-term advantage. Players like Klesla, Fiddler, Gordon and Torres are exactly the sort of useful bottom-9 / bottom-4 players who teams look for, and to that point, if there's a deal to be made for Moss or Halpern (or Vrbata and Morris, if we fall back from playoff contention), that'd be a no-brainer to me in March.

The only question I have right now is GMDM's long-term vision. We all loved Ribeiro's signing at the time and most of us still do, but I can't think of a forward more dissimilar to Doan and Hanzal, and I wonder if that (and the hockey we've seen this year) suggests the Coyotes of 2012 are never coming back because that's not where GMDM wants the team to go. Having a clear, consistent blueprint from the NHL to your CHL scouts (and drafting and developing players who fit that blueprint) is a better way to ensure your picks pan out than applying the Detroit Special Sauce.

You only get the Crosbys and the Stamkoses by sucking (or by getting opportunistic like Dallas did with Seguin last summer and finding a stud who is in a bad situation), but there are more than enough players. The core young group of OEL, Yandle, Hanzal, Domi, Murphy and maybe Gormley stacks up just fine to the rest of the NHL from now until 2019 or so, as long as the team identity is solid and the right complimentary pieces are around them. You don't need lottery picks to get the complimentary pieces.

Is that a fair question to ask though?

For the past 6 years, the only long term vision that Maloney could have was 1, maybe 2 years into the future, at most. This is year 1 of 5 under new ownership. I don't think we made the wrong decisions in signings or anything like that. In a way, the year-to-year basis forced Maloney to grab players whose production in a system was more valuable than their production as individuals. As an individual, Ribeiro is one of the best producers that we have, but clearly we don't have some of the complementary pieces for him to be his most effective. Same thing applies to our PK and some of our defensive transition game from forwards and D.

I think Maloney has some of the long-term pieces in tow, we just need to sharpen up our players on the 3rd/4th line that will be needed for the PK, and find an additional piece for Ribeiro. Defensively, we need to take fewer risks and/or find a stay-at-home D-man for the 3/4 pairing that will allow us to play a little up-tempo from the back end.