Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - III - Spock's Beard

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,337
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Langley, BC
That's pretty much Yellowstone lol.

OK then.

Johnny Knoxville stars as a burned out, disillusioned lawyer who's secretly having an affair with his secretary while also secretly having another affair with his private detective, all the while dodging the constant accusations of an overzealous DA who believes he's perverting the legal system for personal gain, as well as a crooked homicide detective all too eager to convict an innocent person if it means improving his standing on the force. But will this lawyer find the goodness that once led him to take up the cause of the law, or will he decide that the system isn't worth fixing and people aren't worth saving? Sundays this fall, only on CBS, watch Perry Mason.

:sarcasm:
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,442
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A lot more to like than Transformers in space from last week, but still quite a bit to dislike.

I’d probably rate it 7.5/10.

Things I liked:

- the general plot and dilemma
- not being afraid to actually tackle the issue of religion without being overly preachy about it in either direction
- Pike; Anson Mount is killing it and his portrayal of Pike is basically what I envisioned Kirk being like between TOS and TMP
- Burnham not being the prime focus, and other characters given more screen time
- Jacob’s character and the actor portraying him; it’ll be interesting to see if they follow up on the consequences of Pike’s decision

Things I disliked:

- Tilly is becoming too obnoxious for my liking
- Frakes’ direction; if “flashy” direction isn’t your strength, then don’t try and force it because it looks terrible if you do
- I felt the pacing was off
 
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Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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That was one of the better episodes, IMO. I still didn't "like" it, but I didn't intensely dislike it for a change. It was watchable and actually felt a bit like Star Trek.

It was great that it was relatively short and lean. It was focused on the story and, mercifully, wasn't padded with too many flashbacks/memories, Vulcan philosophy and private conversations, which all tend to be the worst parts of every episode. I don't know if this can be attributed to Frakes or if his preference for lean scripts suited this one, but I think that he was a good choice for director, especially since it was a first contact story and he directed the First Contact movie.

I liked that it had a lot of Pike and relatively little of Burnham. Unfortunately, it had a lot of Tilly (though, if I had to choose, I'd choose her over Burnham). She continues to show just how not cut out for command she is. I guess that the writers assume that making her seem like such a long shot and overcoming obstacles will get us to like her and pull for her. It's just too absurd, though.

I really liked Jacob. That actor did a great job emoting and making his character sympathetic. I was afraid at one point that the episode was ripping off that one TNG episode and was going to invite Jacob to the ship to leave with them, so I'm glad that it reached a different conclusion.

The worst thing about the episode was--no surprise--Burnham. Despite having less screen time, she still managed to be super irritating. At one point early on, Tilly had a good idea and I thought, "Hey, that's the kind of teamwork that we've been saying in this thread has been lacking," but, literally seconds later, Burnham said, "That is a good idea... but..." and offered her correction of that idea. Also, Burnham, the science officer has the scripture of nine Earth religions memorized? Of course she does! Also, "I'm from Vulcan. We don't do funny." Ugh. She's no more Vulcan than the woman who raised her and who has a sense of humor. She can have an appreciation of logic, but to show such unappreciation for humor is absurb. Finally, near the end, she told Pike that she's learned the consequences of not following the rules, and I was like "Wow, her character is taking responsibility and evolving!", but, literally only two minutes later, she advocated for violating the Prime Directive, the most important rule in all of Starfleet :facepalm:. The writing on this show can't avoid contradicting itself even minutes later in the very same conversation.
 
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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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I thought the core story was good overall and agree Pike and the Jacob character were excellent.

Tilly is annoying, pretty much as bad or worse than Wesley Crusher at this point. They really need to tone down how loud and annoying she is and make her more like a Barclay character.

The worst written part was when Burnham was stumped by "but you can't disprove it". She's either a scientific genius guided by Vulcan logic or she's not, make up your mind. Shifting the burden of proof is a pretty basic logical fallacy that anyone with even a basic understanding of science and logic can grasp, and it supposedly stumped Burnham? That is horrible writing, just beyond terrible.

Still a bit too over the top with the gimmicks like doing a donut in the middle of a lens flare asteroid field, but at least most of the writing was better.
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
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The end scene of Pike and Jacob was real nice. This episode needed more of that and less of Tilly/Burnham. The technobabble was excessive too, even for Star Trek.

Sometimes less is more. Each episode of Discovery feels like it's trying to do too much. Just focus on a few compelling story elements and flesh them out.
 
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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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Oh something that really bothers me as well is that they provided some background exposition for Owosekun (whose name I had to look up) so they could bring her along on the mission for her experience, but they proceeded to not rely on that experience at all. That is pretty fake character building since she was just given applied attributes which were never demonstrated.
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
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Oh something that really bothers me as well is that they provided some background exposition for Owosekun (whose name I had to look up) so they could bring her along on the mission for her experience, but they proceeded to not rely on that experience at all. That is pretty fake character building since she was just given applied attributes which were never demonstrated.
Yep. There was a throw away line that Owosekun grew up in a Luddite community. That's pretty interesting. You'd think she'd be useful for relating to the people living in this community, and we could get to know her character in the process. It was just another potential story thread that didn't get fleshed out.

The show is really handicapped by the fact that Burnham and Tilly have to be shoehorned into every episode so there's not as much time for other characters.
 
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CaptainCrunch67

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Aug 23, 2005
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Oh something that really bothers me as well is that they provided some background exposition for Owosekun (whose name I had to look up) so they could bring her along on the mission for her experience, but they proceeded to not rely on that experience at all. That is pretty fake character building since she was just given applied attributes which were never demonstrated.

I don't know she did do the magnet thing, however I was surprised that when she said that she was going to use the magnet to flip the lock that Burnham didn't barge in with an even better magnet idea.
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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I don't know she did do the magnet thing, however I was surprised that when she said that she was going to use the magnet to flip the lock that Burnham didn't barge in with an even better magnet idea.

I don't think that it really shows a character's usefulness to have her do something that any one of them could've come up with and done. It also seemed to have no connection to the reason why she was brought along on the mission. In fact, using a magnet feels like it could be a contradiction of her upbringing. In all, it just doesn't seem like very competent writing. As Blender said, it feels like fake character building and transparently trying to be inclusive so that it's not just the Burnham/Pike/Tilly Show. TOS often did the same, but that was 50 years ago and writing is supposed to be better today.
 
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johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
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I notice in discussion of this show no one is really talking about the red angel thing.

It's supposed to be the main big mystery of season 2, but no one really cares. (Even on forums where people actually like the show).

It's so obviously a tacked on thing (along with Burnham being Spock's sister), to try and get Spock into the show somehow.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
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I was just reminded that CBS is also responsible for the misguided MacGyver and Magnum, P.I. reboots. Does CBS have nothing better to do than rip off and desecrate the things that we've loved since we were young?

I like the Magnum P.I. reboot and I watched the original series.
 
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Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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I notice in discussion of this show no one is really talking about the red angel thing.

It's supposed to be the main big mystery of season 2, but no one really cares. (Even on forums where people actually like the show).

It's so obviously a tacked on thing (along with Burnham being Spock's sister), to try and get Spock into the show somehow.

I imagine that the showrunners would love nothing more than for the internet to be actively engaged in guessing what the red angel is and what the red lights have to do with it. Especially after the debacle last season, with the internet figuring out at least one of the main twists really early, the writers might've even tried to make the puzzle harder to crack this time around. It looks like a failure, then, when the internet doesn't seem that interested in even trying to crack it. It may partly be because the idea of an "angel" and supernatural phenomena doesn't feel much like Trek. Besides being hard to like the concept, it's hard to apply any knowledge of the Trek universe to figuring it out when you suspect that the same writers who invented spore jumping and long distance mind melding will just come up with explanations that similarly have no basis in past series.

I like the Magnum P.I. reboot and I watched the original series.

In full disclosure, I haven't seen it. I was only going off of the 48% viewer approval that I saw and the MacGyver reboot, which I (unfortunately) saw a little of.
 
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johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
19,761
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I imagine that the showrunners would love nothing more than for the internet to be actively engaged in guessing what the red angel is and what the red lights have to do with it. Especially after the debacle last season, with the internet figuring out at least one of the main twists really early, the writers might've even tried to make the puzzle harder to crack this time around. It looks like a failure, then, when the internet doesn't seem that interested in even trying to crack it. It may partly be because the idea of an "angel" and supernatural phenomena doesn't feel much like Trek. Besides being hard to like the concept, it's hard to apply any knowledge of the Trek universe to figuring it out when you suspect that the same writers who invented cross-universe mind melding will just come up with explanations that similarly have no basis in past series.
Also, I think they're under the impression that a bunch of Star Trek fans are just stoked about Spock being this. In reality no one cares.
 
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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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I don't care to speculate about the red angels and signals right now because we have so little to go on there is just no point in speculating. Maybe when we have some more information it will be more interesting to discuss (or not of course).
 

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
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I notice in discussion of this show no one is really talking about the red angel thing.

It's supposed to be the main big mystery of season 2, but no one really cares. (Even on forums where people actually like the show).

It's so obviously a tacked on thing (along with Burnham being Spock's sister), to try and get Spock into the show somehow.

I mentioned several times before that it looks a bit like an Iconian from Star Trek Online. The Iconian gateway in the TOS episodes where McCoy jumped back in time (The City On The Edge Of Forever), the planet was off limits IIRC. The planet accidentally appeared on season 1 already 3 grid from top right): https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20180225083357&path-prefix=en



On this week's episode, this was probably the one that to me felt most like Star Trek. Not perfect but very enjoyable.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
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Can someone at CBS please give Anson Mount his own show instead of Michelle Yeoh
Yes please. It's not like he hasn't already proven he can carry a show. Even when the writing wasn't always the best, you could always count on great Anson Mount and Colm Meaney performances on Hell on Wheels.
 

MadDevil

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Feb 10, 2007
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I was just reminded that CBS is also responsible for the misguided MacGyver and Magnum, P.I. reboots. Does CBS have nothing better to do than rip off and desecrate the things that we've loved since we were young?

It's either that or NCIS: Who Gives A f***.
 

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