Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - III - Spock's Beard

[Osprey]

Enterprise is generally considered the worst Star Trek series...

Don't you mean "was"? Seriously, if he's really liking Enterprise, imagine how in love he'll be with DS9 and TNG once he gets around to them. I kind of envy him. Watching the series in reverse order means that Star Trek just keeps getting better and better (rather than worse and worse).

 

[Blender]

Don't you mean "was"? Seriously, if he's really liking Enterprise, imagine how in love he'll be with DS9 and TNG once he gets around to them. I kind of envy him. Watching the series in reverse order means that Star Trek just keeps getting better and better (rather than worse and worse).

Was is accurate right now, but we'll see how Discovery shapes up overall when it's all done.

 

[Harbinger]

Burnham looks like she wearing a merkin on her head.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

God I hate this section 31 crap. I could enjoy the rest of the show if they just left them out.

 

[The Nemesis]

Don't you mean "was"? Seriously, if he's really liking Enterprise, imagine how in love he'll be with DS9 and TNG once he gets around to them. I kind of envy him. Watching the series in reverse order means that Star Trek just keeps getting better and better (rather than worse and worse).

Order means you have to start (and thus finish) DS9 before Voyager. That's a downgrade.

Also I'm always at a bit of a problem when it comes to recommending Trek to newbies because I so desperately want to tell people to give most of the first two seasons of TNG a pass, but I'm never sure if doing that will irreparably screw them over. having probably seen every TNG episode at least 6 or 7 times in my life (and many of them more than that) I have a hard time recalling how much understanding of the show the average person can start with via pop-cultural osmosis and how much they would need to absorb in seasons 1 (guhhhhh) and 2 (less guh, but still.)

Maybe it's more valuable to make a short list of <15 or so episodes from the first two seasons combined that are worth watching so you can avoid cringey bullcrap like Code of Honor that one with the Space-Irish, Code of Honor, Angel One, Code of Honor, The Outrageous Okana (excepting the bit with Joe Piscopo simply because it's fun in a totally ironic way now. **** the rest of the episode though for wasting Billy Campbell as the worst knockoff Han Solo/Harry Mudd ever.), and Code of Honor.

DS9 has a similar problem, but the truly horrendous episodes are fewer and the show needs more of its build-up. TNG's far more episodic and far less interpersonal nature make it easier to skip stuff, and quite honestly more of season 1 is irredeemably awful.

EDIT: Oh, jesus. I was going to remark that at least the early TNG seasons avoided the frustrating "whiny/bitchy Troi" plots, but I had totally forgotten that season 2 started with The Child.

 

[The Nemesis]

God I hate this section 31 crap. I could enjoy the rest of the show if they just left them out.

I said this before, but Section 31 was fun in DS9 when they were the scummy black ops wetworks part of Starfleet that we were supposed to hate even if they pointed out the hypocrisy of the Federation accepting their "help" while turning a blind eye to it because it flies in the face of all their vaunted principles.

It doesn't work now when it's basically become the Hero Corps for sociopaths and sleazebags and I get the distinct impression that we're supposed to low-key root for them because morally gray anti-heros are all the rage now for how they show off the complexity of 'real' people and people equate that sort of thing with edgelord-y cynical adultness vs the dismissive view that idealism like Trek's core principles is for kids and saps.

 

[Cloned]

Order means you have to start (and thus finish) DS9 before Voyager. That's a downgrade.

Also I'm always at a bit of a problem when it comes to recommending Trek to newbies because I so desperately want to tell people to give most of the first two seasons of TNG a pass, but I'm never sure if doing that will irreparably screw them over. having probably seen every TNG episode at least 6 or 7 times in my life (and many of them more than that) I have a hard time recalling how much understanding of the show the average person can start with via pop-cultural osmosis and how much they would need to absorb in seasons 1 (guhhhhh) and 2 (less guh, but still.)

Maybe it's more valuable to make a short list of <15 or so episodes from the first two seasons combined that are worth watching so you can avoid cringey bullcrap like Code of Honor that one with the Space-Irish, Code of Honor, Angel One, Code of Honor, The Outrageous Okana (excepting the bit with Joe Piscopo simply because it's fun in a totally ironic way now. **** the rest of the episode though for wasting Billy Campbell as the worst knockoff Han Solo/Harry Mudd ever.), and Code of Honor.

DS9 has a similar problem, but the truly horrendous episodes are fewer and the show needs more of its build-up. TNG's far more episodic and far less interpersonal nature make it easier to skip stuff, and quite honestly more of season 1 is irredeemably awful.

EDIT: Oh, jesus. I was going to remark that at least the early TNG seasons avoided the frustrating "whiny/*****y Troi" plots, but I had totally forgotten that season 2 started with The Child.

Code of Honour > Justice

 

[Rpenny]

God I hate this section 31 crap. I could enjoy the rest of the show if they just left them out.

agree

 

[The Nemesis]

Code of Honour > Justice

Ehhh, I dunno about that. Both were awful, but while I might be tempted to brush off the awkward, dopey pretty-racist setup of the Ligonians in Code of Honor as some sort of horrible, horrible mistake, there's a bunch of material out there, including from Wil Wheaton himself, that the director of the episode knew exactly what he was doing and was totally cool with doing it. That makes what's already a really super-cringey episode that much more awkward to watch.

 

[Cloned]

Ehhh, I dunno about that. Both were awful, but while I might be tempted to brush off the awkward, dopey pretty-racist setup of the Ligonians in Code of Honor as some sort of horrible, horrible mistake, there's a bunch of material out there, including from Wil Wheaton himself, that the director of the episode knew exactly what he was doing and was totally cool with doing it. That makes what's already a really super-cringey episode that much more awkward to watch.

Justice had horrible acting from Wil Wheaton himself, though.

I just didn't like Justice because it started/propagated one of my most hated Star Trek tropes, which is "the idyllic paradise society has an absurdly dark secret which our heroes have to forcibly change." Paired with "hedonism is evil," this represents incredibly lazy and pretentious writing.

 

[Osprey]

Order means you have to start (and thus finish) DS9 before Voyager. That's a downgrade.

I don't follow. Voyager (1995-2001) started two years after DS9 (1993-1999) and also ended two years after, so it's the newer series and the one that you'd watch first if you were watching the series in reverse order.

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't follow. Voyager (1995-2001) started two years after DS9 (1993-1999) and also ended two years after, so it's the newer series and the one that you'd watch first if you were watching the series in reverse order.

Sorry. I missed the "reverse". I don't know why I was thinking you were suggesting watching in canonically chronological universe (ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY) for some reason.

Carry on.

 

[Blender]

Code of Honour > Justice

No chance, but both are terrible. Code of Honor has the proud distinction of being a horrendous episode and being racist as f***. Justice is just terrible.

 

[peate]

My take on season 1 &2 of TNG.
Encounter at Farpoint you must watch to set the tone and introduce you to the crew. Little cameo from Bones McCoy and of course Q. There are about 10 must watch and maybe 5 other good ones. The last 5 or 6 are all good.

Season 2 is overall not great, but there are some gems, like Elementary Dear Data, The Measure of a man, Contagion, Time Squared and Q Who?

 

[The Nemesis]

My take on season 1 &2 of TNG.
Encounter at Farpoint you must watch to set the tone and introduce you to the crew. Little cameo from Bones McCoy and of course Q. There are about 10 must watch and maybe 5 other good ones. The last 5 or 6 are all good.

Season 2 is overall not great, but there are some gems, like Elementary Dear Data, The Measure of a man, Contagion, Time Squared and Q Who?

That's fair. Maybe I'm stratifying too much, but I'd break down the season as:

Great

• The Measure of a Man (wanna know something crazy? Gene Roddenberry apparently tried to kill this episode.
• Q Who

Good

• Elementary, Dear Data
• A Matter of Honor (fun fact: the Klingon captain was the guy who voiced Starscream and Cobra Commander in the 80s Transformers and GI Joe cartoons)
• Pen Pals (even if it's one of those early examples of the Prime Directive being used as a storytelling bludgeon, hammering the audience with the "we're making a morally awful choice because the rules say so" plot)
• Peak Performance

Acceptable

• Where Silence Has Lease
• Loud as a Whisper
• Contagion (pay attention for a shot of Toronto City Hall in the Iconian gateway)
• The Icarus Factor (for the non-Riker stuff. The Riker stuff was garbage)
• The Emissary

Bad

• The Schizoid Man
• The Dauphin
• Time Squared (Sorry, I never liked this one. The actions of Future Picard never sat right with me and the resolution seemed lazy and uninteresting. And then they did a bunch of far better time paradox type episodes.)
• Samaritan Snare (though the Picard/Wesley stuff is good)

Terrible

• The Outrageous Okona
• Unnatural Selection
• The Royale (just corny enough to enjoy in a "so bad its good" sort of way and keep it out of the bottom tier)
• Manhunt

Kill it with fire

• The Child
• Up the Long Ladder
• Shades of Gray (why the **** would you end a season with this nonsense? Even budgetary reasons seems like a cheap excuse.)

 

[JetsFan815]

Enterprise is generally considered the worst Star Trek series...

I have mostly enjoyed it so far, about half way into Season 2. There are some episodes that are big misses most notably in Season 2 "A night in Sick bay" and "Marauders" that I fast-forwarded through but my net experience has been positive. I generally find the characters to be enjoyable and pleasant to hang out with, something I can't say for Discovery.

 

[Cloned]

Spoiler

So you just know they’re going to redownload Airiam’s memories into a different avatar.

Also not sure how much I like them retreading Terminator territory here with rogue sentient AI, but let’s see where they take it.

I did like Spock telling Burnham what the audience has been thinking the whole time though lol.

I am encouraged by Michelle Paradise’s writing. Glad she’s the new show runner. I may not be fully behind the ideas but her execution looks on point. Imagine she had more control from the beginning and think of what this episode could have been like with more fully developed backstories beforehand.

 

[peate]

I've gotten into this season more readily than last year. Anson Mount was a great addition and Michelle Yeoh's random appearance seems to fit in better.

I still think they should have name it "The Michael Burnam Show".

 

[Cloned]

I've gotten into this season more readily than last year. Anson Mount was a great addition and Michelle Yeoh's random appearance seems to fit in better.

I still think they should have name it "The Michael Burnam Show".

That's generally how most Star Trek TV shows go.

Inconsistent first seasons with some real clunkers, promising second seasons, and then the third season is where things usually take off. I'm pretty optimistic that Paradise is the show runner for the third season.

Unless you count TOS.

 

[Jussi]

In one episode they managed to somehow make me care for Airiam...

Pretty intense episode. I enjoyed it, seem Jonathan Frakes knows how to direct Star Trek.

 

[Osprey]

Well, that was predictable... not just that it happened, but that the writers thought that they could make us care about the character at the last moment. That's not good writing.

The one thing that I did like in the episode was Spock giving it to Burnham and showing her up for the smug character with a hero complex that she is. In just a few minutes, he hurled at her practically every criticism that we've had about her over two seasons now. That doesn't mean that I like this Spock, though. When he said that he now enjoys releasing emotion and turned over the chess board, I sighed and shook my head.

The one saving grace so far has been Pike... and Season 3 may not benefit from having him back if he becomes a cripple at the end of this season.

 

[The Nemesis]

Well, that was predictable... not just that it happened, but that the writers thought that they could make us care about the character at the last moment. That's not good writing.

The one thing that I did like in the episode was Spock giving it to Burnham and showing her up for the smug character with a hero complex that she is. In just a few minutes, he hurled at her practically every criticism that we've had about her over two seasons now. That doesn't mean that I like this Spock, though. When he said that he now enjoys releasing emotion and turned over the chess board, I sighed and shook my head.

The one saving grace so far has been Pike... and Season 3 may not benefit from having him back if he becomes a cripple at the end of this season.

Its too early for him to get crippled, i think. Also iirc it happened in a training accident or something. Not while he was commanding the Enterprise.

 

[Osprey]

Its too early for him to get crippled, i think. Also iirc it happened in a training accident or something. Not while he was commanding the Enterprise.

Yeah, I figure that it's early, but I doubt that these writers respect the timeline enough to not fudge it if they think that it'll be a dramatic way to end the season. Also, he's not commanding the Enterprise now and a "training accident" sounds like the kind of bogus explanation that Starfleet could make up if he was injured while infiltrating Section 31 (on a ship with a top-secret drive that was also scrubbed from history, no less), doesn't it? Finally, would you cast Rebecca Romijn as his Number One (and would she accept) if she were going to be second fiddle to him for very long? Face it... he's doomed .

 

[The Nemesis]

Yeah, I figure that it's early, but I doubt that these writers respect the timeline enough to not fudge it if they think that it'll be a dramatic way to end the season. Also, he's not commanding the Enterprise now and a "training accident" sounds like the kind of bogus explanation that Starfleet could make up if he was injured while infiltrating Section 31 (on a ship with a top-secret drive that was also scrubbed from history, no less), doesn't it? Finally, would you cast Rebecca Romijn as his Number One (and would she accept) if she were going to be second fiddle to him for very long? Face it... he's doomed .

He's also supposed to be an admiral by that point too

 

[Osprey]

He's also supposed to be an admiral by that point too

You think that you're dissuading me from having made up my mind? Well, OK, that last one is harder to argue. You got me there. That said, even if the writers care about that, they probably wouldn't have qualms with promoting him earlier in the same episode that they cripple him, if their character development of Airiam is any indication.