Staples Breaks Down Why Leon + Lucic Doesn't Work

[Spawn]

That second line could be really, really good. Dominate the competition good. Lots of speed and zone control as well.

I’m continually struck by the thought that our lineup would likely be better right now without Lucic in it.

Khaira and Strome should be together - I forget where I saw it but their numbers are better with each other than they are with anyone else.

I also liked the chemistry that Caggiula and Kassian were forming at the end of last year, I remember a few nice plays that led to goals.

RNH-McDavid-Yamo
Rieder-Drai-Puljujarvi
Khaira-Strome-Aberg
Caggiula-Brodziak-Kassian
Rattie-Currie/Malone

I hope Lucic bounces back, I really do, but I honestly think our lineup might be better with him in the press box.

You could just put Lucic and khaira together with strome. One of them goes on their off wing. Or khaira at Center with strome as the rw.

 

[McGoMcD]

I would take any of those guys over the version of Lucic that showed up in the second half of last season.

The problem with Lucic is pretty simple. He slowed down while the NHL was speeding up. He is just too slow as of last year. He desperately needs to shed weight and get a step or two back. If he doesn't he will be in the PB or on the 4th line all of next year. He was that bad in the second half last year.

 

[redgrant]

The problem with Lucic is pretty simple. He slowed down while the NHL was speeding up. He is just too slow as of last year. He desperately needs to shed weight and get a step or two back. If he doesn't he will be in the PB or on the 4th line all of next year. He was that bad in the second half last year.

Doubt he's in the press box. He should be, but it won't happen.

Some nonsense about being a veteran and leader etc.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The problem with Lucic is pretty simple. He slowed down while the NHL was speeding up. He is just too slow as of last year. He desperately needs to shed weight and get a step or two back. If he doesn't he will be in the PB or on the 4th line all of next year. He was that bad in the second half last year.

Yeah, he was pretty terrible.

I don’t know how much impact the team has on his training but he clearly doesn’t do anywhere near enough lower body work. He’s shaped like an upside down triangle and has the balance to match .

He’s always going to be slow but his board work suffered last year too. He was getting pushed over by much shorter and lighter guys.

 

[nabob]

Seems a bit soft...who's going to stand up for McDavid?

This isn’t even a thing in today’s NHL. If things get chippy then you throw Kassian on the top line for a few shifts and get him more involved in the game.

 

[Little Fury]

Yeah, he was pretty terrible.

I don’t know how much impact the team has on his training but he clearly doesn’t do anywhere near enough lower body work. He’s shaped like an upside down triangle and has the balance to match .

He’s always going to be slow but his board work suffered last year too. He was getting pushed over by much shorter and lighter guys.

He said he was in the best shape of his life coming into camp last year.

I was watching some highlights from his 13-14 campaign and it's honestly shocking how slimmer and quicker he was back then. So there's likely something to the idea that he bulked up last offseason at the expense of his speed and agility, but I also think a lot of it is just aging and being more conscious of injuries.

 

[McNuge]

The problem with Lucic is pretty simple. He slowed down while the NHL was speeding up. He is just too slow as of last year. He desperately needs to shed weight and get a step or two back. If he doesn't he will be in the PB or on the 4th line all of next year. He was that bad in the second half last year.

His production at the start of the year was right in line with his average. I don't think being too slow is the be all and end all to his issues. It's not like he just ate too much turkey at Christmas and lost 2 steps.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Yeah, he was pretty terrible.

I don’t know how much impact the team has on his training but he clearly doesn’t do anywhere near enough lower body work. He’s shaped like an upside down triangle and has the balance to match .

He’s always going to be slow but his board work suffered last year too. He was getting pushed over by much shorter and lighter guys.

I don't mind Lucic being slow as nails so long as he can a) handle a puck and b) punch people in the face.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

He said he was in the best shape of his life coming into camp last year.

I was watching some highlights from his 13-14 campaign and it's honestly shocking how slimmer and quicker he was back then. So there's likely something to the idea that he bulked up last offseason at the expense of his speed and agility, but I also think a lot of it is just aging and being more conscious of injuries.

I don’t doubt that he worked out a lot and worked hard, but I don’t think he worked out the right way. He looked like he skipped a lot of leg days and core days and focused too much on upper body.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

This isn’t even a thing in today’s NHL.

That's what Pittsburgh said.

 

[PaPaDee]

I think Lucic can still add value as a third line winger, on a line that plays a cycle game. He's not going to do well try to play with players with speed to burn.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

That's what Pittsburgh said.

All they got out of it was back to back Cups.

 

[Aerrol]

I don't disagree that Lucic needs to be on the third line or lower until he proves he he can play again but I'm a little surprised to see all the comments about Drai Lucic never working. Their hot playoff streak wasn't just luck - they read well off each other and complemented each other well. Drai is slower than McDavid and prefers to play a methodical cycle game at centre. This works very well with good Lucic, who will never have the speed to play a rush game in the NHL today, but still can dominate possession along the boards.

 

[oobga]

He said he was in the best shape of his life coming into camp last year.

I was watching some highlights from his 13-14 campaign and it's honestly shocking how slimmer and quicker he was back then. So there's likely something to the idea that he bulked up last offseason at the expense of his speed and agility, but I also think a lot of it is just aging and being more conscious of injuries.

I do think there is something to that. He was bragging about his body fat % and how he was pumping iron with football players. I think he messed up last summer and set himself up for failure.

He said in some interview in the new year that he was gaining weight, and he looked like he was just dead out on the ice. Seems like what happens to bodybuilders when they don't have the time anymore to keep up their routine of loading with protein and going hard in the gym. There is no time for that through a season of NHL hockey. There is a reason most hockey players come out of the summer with a little buffer on their body and don't look like they are chiseled out of wood. Most guys lose weight through the year, not gain.

I know it sounds dumb to suggest a pro hockey player wouldn't know how to train, but Lucic pretty much admitted as much earlier this year. He gets now that bodybuilding and targetting the lowest possible body fat % is not the right way to go in today's league, and he needs to lay off the heavy weights and work on stuff like speed instead. Just hope he can get the job done this summer.

 

[English Bob]

I’m no expert, I suspect he had too much upper body muscle. That’s non functional weight for hockey. Nobody has said he was ‘fat’ it’s just muscle weight in the wrong place. Even for Hockey fighting you don’t need football muscles, you need balance (core), grip strength, and hand speed. There have been many welterweights in hockey who were sheriffs on the ice. I suspect Lucic needs to be closer to 200lbs to have some speed and endurance.

 

[McGoMcD]

I’m no expert, I suspect he had too much upper body muscle. That’s non functional weight for hockey. Nobody has said he was ‘fat’ it’s just muscle weight in the wrong place. Even for Hockey fighting you don’t need football muscles, you need balance (core), grip strength, and hand speed. There have been many welterweights in hockey who were sheriffs on the ice. I suspect Lucic needs to be closer to 200lbs to have some speed and endurance.

I would agree 100%. He is simply too top heavy. needs to more agile. He looks like a football player out there getting beaten like a rented mule on skates.

 

[McGoMcD]

Doubt he's in the press box. He should be, but it won't happen.

Some nonsense about being a veteran and leader etc.

I agree. I should have said, he should be in the press box. He will sadly get many chances, cause....... Chia loves him.

 

[doulos]

Lucic third line.
Puljujarvi in the AHL.
Neither of them deserve better.

 

[LaGu]

Does he break it down? I don't really get that feeling, he is picking some stats that he thinks are more relevant than others (GF% instead of CF%, HDCF%, etc.), and he also acknowledges that he would not really be against (or surprised) if they try Lucic with Draisaitl, again based on those stats he didn't believe were as relevant as the others.

Lucic fell off a cliff this spring.
October to January (21st to be specific): GF% 75.00 for Lucic and Drai together (around 25% of their total 5v5 ice time together)
January - April: GF% 25.00, OnIce SH% 4.48 (!!!) OnIce SV% 84.87 (!!!) (around 75% of their ice time)

Even considering the difference in ice time together that is a crazy turn of events for those two, and I don't see how you deduct from it that Lucic just does not work with Draisaitl. There must be so much more to this than just chemistry between two players. These are still fairly small sample sizes, especially when it comes to goals scored stats.

EDIT: an example of this is that if you take their on-ice together stats from 12 October 2016 to 21 January 2018 they have a GF% 52.00. And that is over a bit more ice time that the last period in 17/18. Could be higher of course, but I would not call it reason for alarm.

I don't mind starting the season with RNH and Rieder as our top two LWs and Lucic with Strome, but it wouldn't surprise me if we see Lucic in the top 6 sooner rather than later. It also wouldn't surprise me if he has some success in that role, even if playing with Draisaitl.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

All they got out of it was back to back Cups.

Might have been three.

But never mind. No talking to meaning-movers.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I am probably going a little too far saying he is a 4th liner, but I really don't think he is a top 6'er any more. Maybe he will get his game back, but I doubt it. I think he is just dead weight in the top 6 at this point.

I think Lucic can still work in the top 6, so long as he has another on his line that likes to slow the game down or at least has a fairly linear mindset. The problem is Edmonton doesn't have that player.

He's excelled with Horton and Iginla in BOS, and Carter in LA. But he's never really done well with guys that think the game at super high level. McDavid, Draisaitl and Koptiar all zig and zag, while Malin's just thinking "full steam ahead!"

In my mind the best stretch of games Lucic has had here is when he was paired with Caggiula and Slepyshev right before the 2017 TDL. Two guys that just looked chip the puck in deep and go get it on the forecheck.

That's why I would be tempted to glue Lucic to Kassian if given the chance. Let them play off eachother, and build a line that looks to physically imposed itself.

 

[Weitz]

Staples couldn't break down how to get out of a phone booth. Guy is terrible.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don’t doubt that he worked out a lot and worked hard, but I don’t think he worked out the right way. He looked like he skipped a lot of leg days and core days and focused too much on upper body.

Lucic has always had the build of a weekend training warrior. The guy in the gym that pushes upperbody like a bull and has pencil thin legs. Not sure why so many people do that as it looks hilariously out of whack. Cartoonish even.

Actually I know why. They value the look of rock hard upper body but put less value on working out legs. Most of the people I've ever seen in a gym that are rocked have underdeveloped legs in which to adequately support the topside bulk.

Does he break it down? I don't really get that feeling, he is picking some stats that he thinks are more relevant than others (GF% instead of CF%, HDCF%, etc.), and he also acknowledges that he would not really be against (or surprised) if they try Lucic with Draisaitl, again based on those stats he didn't believe were as relevant as the others.

Lucic fell off a cliff this spring.
October to January (21st to be specific): GF% 75.00 for Lucic and Drai together (around 25% of their total 5v5 ice time together)
January - April: GF% 25.00, OnIce SH% 4.48 (!!!) OnIce SV% 84.87 (!!!) (around 75% of their ice time)

Even considering the difference in ice time together that is a crazy turn of events for those two, and I don't see how you deduct from it that Lucic just does not work with Draisaitl. There must be so much more to this than just chemistry between two players. These are still fairly small sample sizes, especially when it comes to goals scored stats.

EDIT: an example of this is that if you take their on-ice together stats from 12 October 2016 to 21 January 2018 they have a GF% 52.00. And that is over a bit more ice time that the last period in 17/18. Could be higher of course, but I would not call it reason for alarm.

I don't mind starting the season with RNH and Rieder as our top two LWs and Lucic with Strome, but it wouldn't surprise me if we see Lucic in the top 6 sooner rather than later. It also wouldn't surprise me if he has some success in that role, even if playing with Draisaitl.

Lucic just stopped playing. Stopped bearing down, stopped concentrating and allowed himself to drift into a humongous funk. The degree to which he was not engaged in play is his inability to even receive a pass. It was hilarious to see as he would move his stick as the puck was hitting the sidebars, way late and doing the same on one timers. This is evidence of basically day dreaming out there. It would be literally impossible sans concussion or brain disturbance for somebodies cerebral processing and anticipation of the game to fall so severely off a cliff.

Everybody has heard of the term "In the zone" there is a converse, of players that are so out of their element their play is on another planet, Pluto. Its like watching a person that defies the theory of never forgetting how to ride a bike. Lucic was crashing through the course for the last half of the season. Its like he had some Turkey curse.

Really and honestly his focus just bailed. By his own regular comment he needs to find ways to get "involved" in games. To get activated. This is most of what was going on. Lucic just not being involved or focuxed and looking like complete shit as a result of it. You can't half ass NHL play, few players could without looking like toxic waste out there.

 

[nexttothemoon]

In my view the issues with Lucic are 80% mental and 20% physical.

Yes maybe his current physique isn't ideal for hockey with the way the game is changing... but there have been plenty of average to even below average speed players that have been effective NHL players. They simply have to play to their strengths and be in areas and situations where speed isn't the deciding factor. Net front presence... greasy rebounds and deflections in "junk areas"... creating chaos by using their physical abilities to rough up the opposition and making it harder for opposing players to create/defend on their side of the ice etc.

I think the mental side was an even bigger factor. It's a catch-22 when you get in a funk. Was Lucic really a useless player by the end of the season when he started the season reasonably well? I don't think so. I think the mental side and monkeys on his back played a much larger role than him simply being instantly "no good at hockey" any more.

The good thing about the mental side is that it's a lot easier to flip than physical breakdowns in a body or poor overall continual conditioning (neither of which is the case with Lucic).

If a player has injury issues and is slowly but surely deteriorating, I could see that trend continuing but in the case of Lucic I think he can realize that his training and conditioning can be tweaked for a more "hockey oriented" skillset. This is a lifelong gym rat and I'd give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to realizing he needs to make some training modifications towards improving his overall speed and getting back to what made him an effective player in the past.

Somewhat personal... but he had some very tragic family issues in the not too distant past and that takes time to get through mentally as well. When you lose a family member, it's not as simple as just flipping a switch and getting on with life and everything is 100% mentally again. Without getting into too much psychology, I think that obviously may have an effect on a person's focus and drive as well... and only time can help a person get through that healing process which takes a toll on everyone differently. Obviously "tough" people feel things just as hard or harder than anyone else and even though hockey players are professionals... they are obviously human as well and what affects them off the ice often affects their performance on it as well.

 

[Aceboogie]

Good place for this article on how physical players age. Basically just confirming what everyone already thought/saw, physical players go down hill much faster than less physical players

Big Deals for Big Hitters: How Physical Players Age

Based on his 2 seasons here, and the 2 season before he came here, Lucic isnt bouncing back. Hes off the cliff and falling fast. The only thing that will make this better is if he somehow finds a parachute and reduces his rate of decline. Hes a 3rd liner now, hopefully he can stay a suitable third liner for the next 2-3 years before his game is completely gone