Stan Bowman thread (mod warning post 965)

[CallMeShaft]

Ah yes, the Toews vs Malkin thread....

How Toews compares to Malkin depends on how you feel about things like puck protection and defensive zone starts. If you think offense is harder to come by, you go Malkin. If you are one that is okay with sacrificing a little offense in order to shutdown opposing teams' top lines, you probably go with Toews.

Personally, I'm a bigger fan of Toews and other Selke type guys. I know that Crosby, McDavid, and Mackinnon are better than guys like Bergeron, Point, and Barkov, but I always have a slight preference for the Selke contenders myself. Toews vs Kopitar was a thing of beauty in 2013 & 2014. Dach looks like he could eventually become that type of player too, and I'm so happy we have him.

EDIT: 10,000 posts!?!
Someone bake my ass a celebratory cake already!

 

[BK]

Another live look at Stan:

View attachment 327417

His drafting and everything but pro scouting say otherwise. Will his pro scouting and choices made around this get him fired? Decent chance yes but to imply he doesn't know what he is doing is a just plain stupid comment.

 

[BK]

Ah yes, the Toews vs Malkin thread....

How Toews compares to Malkin depends on how you feel about things like puck protection and defensive zone starts. If you think offense is harder to come by, you go Malkin. If you are one that is okay with sacrificing a little offense in order to shutdown opposing teams' top lines, you probably go with Toews.

Personally, I'm a bigger fan of Toews and other Selke type guys. I know that Crosby, McDavid, and Mackinnon are better than guys like Bergeron, Point, and Barkov, but I always have a slight preference for the Selke contenders myself. Toews vs Kopitar was a thing of beauty in 2013 & 2014. Dach looks like he could eventually become that type of player too, and I'm so happy we have him.

I love selke type players and always have but I don't think saying Malkin is a better that hockey player than Toews is wrong comment. Both are great but Malkin is a better player in my opinion. Chihawks10 disagrees and that is fine.

 

[ColdSteel2]

His drafting and everything but pro scouting say otherwise. Will his pro scouting and choices made around this get him fired? Decent chance yes but to imply he doesn't know what he is doing is a just plain stupid comment.

Vehemently disagree. This entire season proved to me once and for all he doesn’t know when to build and when to go for it. Last offseason was a god damned disaster. And now he’s talking about rebuilding? Yeah, sure thing.

 

[ChiHawk21]

His drafting and everything but pro scouting say otherwise. Will his pro scouting and choices made around this get him fired? Decent chance yes but to imply he doesn't know what he is doing is a just plain stupid comment.

his contracts handed out are certainly questionable. i guess you can lump that in with pro scouting.

 

[BK]

Vehemently disagree. This entire season proved to me once and for all he doesn’t know when to build and when to go for it. Last offseason was a god damned disaster. And now he’s talking about rebuilding? Yeah, sure thing.

You would be wrong. Haha claiming that they went for it was even funnier.

Other than spending on Shaw he did not spend anything that hurts the future to acquire Maatta or deHaan. Carpenter was a great signing and so was Lehner. Added Kubalik.

Saying last off season was a disaster is just incredibly wrong. They could have sold Gus but they thought he would pick up where he left off and if he does that his value is even higher. Who predicted the PP would tank? No one.

Future line up with the assumption we pick 7th and take Rossi or Lundell.

88-19-8
12-77-92
20-R/L-Barrett
Kura-22-?

2-27
5-Mitchell
Carlsson/Beaudin/6/etc.

Crow

We need more goalie depth.

I see Nylander's improvement recently and still see his potential.

 

[BK]

his contracts handed out are certainly questionable. i guess you can lump that in with pro scouting.

I do lump those together just for clarity.

His contracts are so hit or miss. Keith? Great. Hossa? Good deal. Carpenter? Really good. Lehner? Smart deal. Crawford? Good deal. Seabrook? Terrible (fireable). Bickell? Bad deal.

Kane and Toews are different to me.

 

[ColdSteel2]

You would be wrong. Haha claiming that they went for it was even funnier.

Other than spending on Shaw he did not spend anything that hurts the future to acquire Maatta or deHaan. Carpenter was a great signing and so was Lehner. Added Kubalik.

Saying last off season was a disaster is just incredibly wrong. They could have sold Gus but they thought he would pick up where he left off and if he does that his value is even higher. Who predicted the PP would tank? No one.

1. Cap space is an asset, especially for a rebuilding team. They had a lot of it, now they have little of it. Not just this year but next year as well. Rebuilding teams try to clear well paid middle class veterans out. He brought vets with money and term in, injury prone vets at that.

2. He traded picks away to improve the team when there were 1 year free agents available that could have provided depth and possibly flipped at the deadline for more assets. That 2nd is in the range the Hawks got Debrincat. Another possible building block flushed down the toilet.

3. He could have used some of his cap space to acquire Marleau and the Leafs 1st, a pick that may end up being a lottery pick. No doubt the Leafs would rather that pick be out West than with a rival. It was an amazing opportunity to fast track a rebuild. Instead, he actually helped facilitate Carolina acquiring the pick by taking de Haans money off their payroll. Opportunities like that come along maybe once in 5-10 years. The last I can recall is his trade of Teravainen to Carolina.

4. His sell off at the TD was very uninspiring. He gets average to poor value in the majority of his trades.

Maybe he will get another GM job again, maybe not. I’ll believe it when I see it and if that team isn’t loaded with hall of famers, I don’t anticipate him having much success.

 

[Brightwing]

New 31 Thoughts column and Friedman said Chicago offered two year term to Lehner.

I can see why he would reject that. He's better off going to free agency.

If Chicago was firm on that, I can see why they figured negotiations weren't going to go anywhere.

Really wondering about that time line though and what it says about where the Hawks think they'll be in two years.

 

[BK]

1. Cap space is an asset, especially for a rebuilding team. They had a lot of it, now they have little of it. Not just this year but next year as well. Rebuilding teams try to clear well paid middle class veterans out. They have cap space. They can take the LTIR in the summer as well to create a lot of space. This changes in season accrual though.

2. He traded picks away to improve the team when there were 1 year free agents available that could have provided depth and possibly be flipped at the deadline for more assets. Just Shaw. Who is a potential player in the future. deHaan had zero cost and Maatta was trade for Kahun (this is a win for us).

3. He could have used some of his cap space to acquire Marleau and the Leafs 1st, a pick that may end up being a lottery pick. No doubt the Leafs would rather that pick be out West than with a rival. It was an amazing opportunity to fast track a rebuild. Instead, he actually helped facilitate Carolina acquiring the pick by taking de Haans money off their payroll. Opportunities like that come along maybe once in 5-10 years. Complain about cap space then want to buyout Marleau? There was zero talk that the Leafs even approached them on this.

4. His sell off at the TD was very uninspiring. He gets average to poor value in the majority of his trades. He got proper value. Second sentence is incorrect.

Maybe he will get another GM job again, maybe not. I’ll believe when I see it and if that team isn’t loaded with hall of famers, I don’t anticipate him having much success. Maybe he will get another job? This is a joke right.

See red.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

I don't get the confusion over the "direction of the team." They spent pretty modestly to add 3 good players over the summer to try to make the playoffs. When that didn't work they sold at the deadline and mostly recouped what they traded for Shaw. The hope is that the prospects we already have in system will be able to contribute in the next 2 to 3 years while Kane and Toews are still good.

 

[WarLax]

I don't understand why so many people on this forum are eager to be the Red Wings. It's clear to anyone with eyes we need to restock/retool/rebuild whatever. I'm not running out to hire some new GM and/or coach to sneak us into the playoffs and perpetuate relative mediocrity.

The past couple offseasons have been mostly good imo, with Bowmans acquisitions setting us up for the future and by all accounts Colliton has been great for our young guys. Maybe hes not the coach to win us the cups in the future, but he certainly can be the coach to lay the foundation for our future stars ala Savard.

I'm fine letting this play out for the next year and then evaluate again after that.

 

[LDF]

I don't understand why so many people on this forum are eager to be the Red Wings. It's clear to anyone with eyes we need to restock/retool/rebuild whatever. I'm not running out to hire some new GM and/or coach to sneak us into the playoffs and perpetuate relative mediocrity.

The past couple offseasons have been mostly good imo, with Bowmans acquisitions setting us up for the future and by all accounts Colliton has been great for our young guys. Maybe hes not the coach to win us the cups in the future, but he certainly can be the coach to lay the foundation for our future stars ala Savard.

I'm fine letting this play out for the next year and then evaluate again after that.

he has been evaluated these past 3+ yrs of failure..... his only saving grace has been his draft and scouting.

 

[Hawkaholic]

New 31 Thoughts column and Friedman said Chicago offered two year term to Lehner.

I can see why he would reject that. He's better off going to free agency.

If Chicago was firm on that, I can see why they figured negotiations weren't going to go anywhere.

Really wondering about that time line though and what it says about where the Hawks think they'll be in two years.

Lehner said he never received an offer in an interview this morning.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Lol.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Lehner said he never received an offer in an interview this morning.

Same guy that said no discount to the media then had his agent tell laz twenty minutes after he was traded that he would've taken a discount....story checks out

 

[Hawkaholic]

So weird, the times you wish you could be a fly on the wall.

 

[BK]

So weird, the times you wish you could be a fly on the wall.

You have to wonder how much this will hurt his value this summer. Teams don't like headaches.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You have to wonder how much this will hurt his value this summer. Teams don't like headaches.

Absolutely, he might have to settle for a 1 year deal with the Hawks again! LOL

 

[RememberTheRoar]

New 31 Thoughts column and Friedman said Chicago offered two year term to Lehner.

I can see why he would reject that. He's better off going to free agency.

If Chicago was firm on that, I can see why they figured negotiations weren't going to go anywhere.

Really wondering about that time line though and what it says about where the Hawks think they'll be in two years.

Two year term probably has more to do with needing to re-sign Dach and Boqvist with T/K/K still on the books than it has to do with Lehner.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Lehner should probably stay off social media for a while.

 

[BK]

Absolutely, he might have to settle for a 1 year deal with the Hawks again! LOL

It might be an opportunity for the Hawks to get a steal on him.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It might be an opportunity for the Hawks to get a steal on him.

Yeah, I just don't see it happening anymore. It feels like the bridge is burned.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Same guy that said no discount to the media then had his agent tell laz twenty minutes after he was traded that he would've taken a discount....story checks out

To be fair, Lehner's point yesterday does make sense if you listen to what he said from his perspective. Obviously, we have no idea what his camp was telling the Hawks behind the scenes though.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Lehner should probably stay off social media for a while.

Seems he feels like he just NEEDS to get the last word in on this when he should probably just shut up and play.