Waived: Stalberg and Clune waived

[AtlantaWhaler]

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[darth5]

Source:

I see 3 possibilities.
1) a cap clearing move for something else
2) a 'hey, these guys are available' move before some kind of cut your loss trade
3) long shot-- prelude to buyout

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Right now I'll go with #3, but this timing is interesting. #1 is certainly a possibility.

 

[RaiderDoug]

Stalberg would have to go down as one of the bigger disappointments that I can remember.

Chicago fans all told us what we were buying, but to be honest, I was excited and optimistic. You watch the guy play, and you can check off every box you need to get a big time player (or at least a quality top-6 guy), but the sum is not equal to all the parts.

Clune - meh, nice guy, but a dime a dozen.

 

[Drake744]

Stalberg would have to go down as one of the bigger disappointments that I can remember.

Chicago fans all told us what we were buying, but to be honest, I was excited and optimistic. You watch the guy play, and you can check off every box you need to get a big time player (or at least a quality top-6 guy), but the sum is not equal to all the parts.

Stalberg was never going to be a Top 6 guy. If anyone had any sincere expectations that he would be they're kidding themselves. I was stunned we actually signed him for as long as we did.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Stalberg was never going to be a Top 6 guy. If anyone had any sincere expectations that he would be they're kidding themselves. I was stunned we actually signed him for as long as we did.

#Poileforgmforlife

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

#Poileforgmforlife

Oh, come on, you yourself were a fan of the Stalberg signing. All moves don't pan out the way we think or hope they will.

Though I never really liked the signing, I will say that Stalberg just never really got a consistent opportunity in the role with which he was successful in Chicago--3rd line facing opportunistic defensive matchups sheltered by two stronger forward lines. Granted, we haven't had said strong lines until this season, but still... I didn't think he was that poor down the stretch/in the playoffs. I'd also rather him out there on the 3rd line than Bourque at this point.

 

[Drake744]

I could say I "liked" the signing, but really when I say I "liked" it, I mean I'm hoping Chicago fans didn't know what they were talking about.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Might be I just had my teeth cleaned but I have a nagging feeling this is the prelude to a Kessel trade. Think about it. With Stalberg and Clune in Milwaukee they are all salary no cap hit. What can Toronto afford? All the monies and no cap hit. Only other bad cap hit I see on the team is Hutton.

 

[darth5]

Asfar as Kessel, count me in the 'DoNotWant' camp.
The guy has talent, but he is temperamental and he allegedly got to TO by vetoing a deal here to begin with. Why would this org want to pick up this bad contract now for someone who is not known for being a team player? Bad idea.
Yes, I know there are trade offs in every deal and I am one of those fans always crowing for something to be done. But movement for its own sake is not progress if it is not consistent with the team's direction, goals, and structure. Not sure how this deal could fit.

 

[van22]

I see 3 possibilities.
1) a cap clearing move for something else
2) a 'hey, these guys are available' move before some kind of cut your loss trade
3) long shot-- prelude to buyout

Don't understand point 1 - why would they need to clear cap space now? The roster/cap only needs to be compliant at the end of training camp.

Point 2 is a good point. It's also a way of demonstrating to the players that there is indeed no interest by other teams (assuming no one picks them up).

Point 3 - if Poile buys Stalberg out it's likely he returns to Europe to revive his career so maybe Poile is counting on that and will hold out on buying him out (limit is 30 June) with the hope that he agrees to go through unconditional waivers to cancel the contract and have him completely off the books. It's a lot of money to leave behind but it's also a long time to be in the AHL if he doesn't want to play there...

Might be I just had my teeth cleaned but I have a nagging feeling this is the prelude to a Kessel trade. Think about it. With Stalberg and Clune in Milwaukee they are all salary no cap hit. What can Toronto afford? All the monies and no cap hit. Only other bad cap hit I see on the team is Hutton.

You can't bury contracts in the minors anymore. Next year only 950K can be buried there so there is still a 2.05M cap hit for Stalberg if he plays in the AHL.

 

[BigFatCat999]

As for Clune and Stalberg. Clune is on the last yr of his deal and Stalberg 2 years left. it's sunk loss to be honest.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Buyout doesn't make sense at this point though. Clune is a UFA at the end of the season and his full salary won't count against the cap should he be in the minors (I believe up to 900k of a player's salary will be removed from the cap if in the minors).

Stalberg, with 2 years left, seems a more likely buyout target. Thing is, we don't need relief from his cap hit this season, and if we buy him out we will be absorbing $1.5M in dead cap space over the next 4 seasons as a result. If for some reason we needed some relief NEXT season, then go ahead and buy him out then, and you'd halve the dead cap space to $1.5M for just 2 seasons. If it's likely he may go back to Europe, is there still a provision for mutual contract termination that would leave us free of any salary or cap obligations (I'd assume Stalberg could not return to the NHL for X amount of years)?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I think van22 raises a great point about possibly returning to Europe. He spent a lot of last season in Milwaukee. I'm assuming he's not ready to start another season in the minors.

 

[Filip Forceberg]

I have a gut feeling that Poile is finally going to get Kessel and I'm going to be pissed at what he gave up.

 

[MrJoshua]

I have a gut feeling that Poile is finally going to get Kessel and I'm going to be pissed at what he gave up.

Getting a player of Kessel's level, especially when signed to a long-term contract, is always going to hurt. I don't think any of us would be very happy about what was going the other direction.

That said, man, rolling out Kessel-Neal as a 1-2 punch on the right side would be something to see. Talk about scoring depth.

Forsberg-Ribeiro-Kessel
Fiala-Fisher-Neal
Wilson-Smith/Jarnkrok-Moses/Smith

That's massively improved third-line scoring and overall depth. You're talking about two guys with 30+ goal potential, another four guys with 20+ goal potential, then who knows with Fiala. Call it 10 for him. That's 150 goals right there. If Jarnkrok can chip in 10 that's 160 goals from your top three lines.

edit: That's two goals a game. Chip in 10 goals total from the fourth line and you're up to 170. Then Weber will get 20+. Josi will get 10+. That's 200. Ellis and Ekholm for 10 more. Jones and Bartley for 5. That's 215 goals using minimum numbers.

Let's say it ends up something like this:

Forsberg (25) - Ribeiro (15) - Kessel (30) = 70
Fiala (15) - Fisher (22) - Neal (28) = 65
Wilson (15, let's say he regresses slightly) - Smith (25) - Moses (15) = 55
Bourque (8) - Gaustad (5) - Nystrom (5) = 18

That's a total of 208 goals from our forwards. Maybe drop it to 200 even if Moses and Fiala don't perform to our hopes. I think those are all fairly realistic numbers. Kessel would open up more space for Forsberg. That would be a massive improvement from the third line. I think Fiala's passing would help improve Neal's numbers a bit.

Weber (15) - Josi (10) = 25
Ellis (8) - Ekholm (5) = 13
Jones (5) - Bartley (1) = 6

So 44 goals from the defense. Drop that to 40 and you're near a 3 GPG average for the team.

Now, do I expect the team to average three goals per game next season? Well, they averaged 2.76 last season according to NHL.com. That's a pretty substantial increase. So, no, probably not, but if they could, in front of that defense, then if Rinne can stay healthy that would be one hell of a hockey team.

 

[Soundgarden]

If we can get Kessel without giving up Jones or Forsberg I'd be ok with it. I would hate to give up Fiala without seeing how good he can become, but Kessel is an elite scorer and it'd make us a better team in the next few years. On the other hand Kessel doesn't feel a hole and I have a gut feeling we are going to get screwed over if a deal took place.

 

[David Singleton]

Getting a player of Kessel's level, especially when signed to a long-term contract, is always going to hurt. I don't think any of us would be very happy about what was going the other direction.

That said, man, rolling out Kessel-Neal as a 1-2 punch on the right side would be something to see. Talk about scoring depth.

Forsberg-Ribeiro-Kessel
Fiala-Fisher-Neal
Wilson-Smith/Jarnkrok-Moses/Smith

That's massively improved third-line scoring and overall depth. You're talking about two guys with 30+ goal potential, another four guys with 20+ goal potential, then who knows with Fiala. Call it 10 for him. That's 150 goals right there. If Jarnkrok can chip in 10 that's 160 goals from your top three lines.

edit: That's two goals a game. Chip in 10 goals total from the fourth line and you're up to 170. Then Weber will get 20+. Josi will get 10+. That's 200. Ellis and Ekholm for 10 more. Jones and Bartley for 5. That's 215 goals using minimum numbers.

Let's say it ends up something like this:

Forsberg (25) - Ribeiro (15) - Kessel (30) = 70
Fiala (15) - Fisher (22) - Neal (28) = 65
Wilson (15, let's say he regresses slightly) - Smith (25) - Moses (15) = 55
Bourque (8) - Gaustad (5) - Nystrom (5) = 18

That's a total of 208 goals from our forwards. Maybe drop it to 200 even if Moses and Fiala don't perform to our hopes. I think those are all fairly realistic numbers. Kessel would open up more space for Forsberg. That would be a massive improvement from the third line. I think Fiala's passing would help improve Neal's numbers a bit.

Weber (15) - Josi (10) = 25
Ellis (8) - Ekholm (5) = 13
Jones (5) - Bartley (1) = 6

So 44 goals from the defense. Drop that to 40 and you're near a 3 GPG average for the team.

Now, do I expect the team to average three goals per game next season? Well, they averaged 2.76 last season according to NHL.com. That's a pretty substantial increase. So, no, probably not, but if they could, in front of that defense, then if Rinne can stay healthy that would be one hell of a hockey team.

Just out of curiosity, who are you parting with to obtain Kessel?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Getting a player of Kessel's level, especially when signed to a long-term contract, is always going to hurt. I don't think any of us would be very happy about what was going the other direction.

That said, man, rolling out Kessel-Neal as a 1-2 punch on the right side would be something to see. Talk about scoring depth.

Forsberg-Ribeiro-Kessel
Fiala-Fisher-Neal
Wilson-Smith/Jarnkrok-Moses/Smith

That's massively improved third-line scoring and overall depth. You're talking about two guys with 30+ goal potential, another four guys with 20+ goal potential, then who knows with Fiala. Call it 10 for him. That's 150 goals right there. If Jarnkrok can chip in 10 that's 160 goals from your top three lines.

edit: That's two goals a game. Chip in 10 goals total from the fourth line and you're up to 170. Then Weber will get 20+. Josi will get 10+. That's 200. Ellis and Ekholm for 10 more. Jones and Bartley for 5. That's 215 goals using minimum numbers.

Let's say it ends up something like this:

Forsberg (25) - Ribeiro (15) - Kessel (30) = 70
Fiala (15) - Fisher (22) - Neal (28) = 65
Wilson (15, let's say he regresses slightly) - Smith (25) - Moses (15) = 55
Bourque (8) - Gaustad (5) - Nystrom (5) = 18

That's a total of 208 goals from our forwards. Maybe drop it to 200 even if Moses and Fiala don't perform to our hopes. I think those are all fairly realistic numbers. Kessel would open up more space for Forsberg. That would be a massive improvement from the third line. I think Fiala's passing would help improve Neal's numbers a bit.

Weber (15) - Josi (10) = 25
Ellis (8) - Ekholm (5) = 13
Jones (5) - Bartley (1) = 6

So 44 goals from the defense. Drop that to 40 and you're near a 3 GPG average for the team.

Now, do I expect the team to average three goals per game next season? Well, they averaged 2.76 last season according to NHL.com. That's a pretty substantial increase. So, no, probably not, but if they could, in front of that defense, then if Rinne can stay healthy that would be one hell of a hockey team.

What do you suppose you'd give up for Kessel if the bolded aren't involved, especially considering you don't have a 1st?

 

[Brock Radunske]

What do you suppose you'd give up for Kessel if the bolded aren't involved, especially considering you don't have a 1st?

What do you suppose you'd give up for Kessel if ANY OF THE bolded aren't involved, especially considering you don't have a 1st?

 

[Infinite Jest]

What do you suppose you'd give up for Kessel if ANY OF THE bolded aren't involved, especially considering you don't have a 1st?

Shouldn't have bothered bolding Forsberg or Jones, those are pipe dreams for the Leafs. Not happening.

 

[Privy]

If we bring Kessel in then I'd rather see him on the 2nd line with Fisher. Fisher can help mitigate some of Kessel's defensive lapses and Kessel is less dependent on his center than Neal. The first line worked last season, let's keep it. Hiding Kessel on the second line could be lethal.

Forsberg - Ribeiro - Neal
Wilson - Fisher - Kessel

 

[MrJoshua]

Yeah I realized after typing that up that I hadn't taken anyone off the roster for the trade. That said, I hope that a Kessel trade wouldn't involve more than one roster defenseman (Jones or Ellis), a prospect not named Fiala, a draft pick. Maybe a bottom-six player for roster depth, say Beck or Bourque. If they're giving up more than that, well, frankly I'd pass. The only point of trading for a Kessel would be to improve the existing roster and if you give up multiple roster players to get him you haven't really improved anything.

 

[thecloser]

I'm on the bring in Kessel train. One of the few here apparently.

Many of you are saying we don't need the cap space...and in theory we don't but we also can't sit here and pretend we know what is going on behind the scenes with contract negotiations. None of us know what Poile is talking to Wilson and Smith about as far as dollars go. I'm sure they have a plan in place that spells out how much they are going to be at IF the signings get done according to Poile's plan. Of course it could be more than Poile hoped for but this seems like point (1) to me.

My only concern, like others, is what are we giving up. As you all know, I've been a proponent to using Jones as a lure to get a #1C. If Jones is going the other way for Kessel...my concern then lies in who is going to be facilitating to him...again, if we don't resign Ribeiro. If Poile is throwing caution to the wind and resigning Ribeiro no matter what...again another "behind closed doors decision" right now, then I definitely see Poile getting "his man" so to speak.

And I have to feel Poile has been chomping at the bit ever since the rumors about Kessel came out.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Yeah I realized after typing that up that I hadn't taken anyone off the roster for the trade. That said, I hope that a Kessel trade wouldn't involve more than one roster defenseman (Jones or Ellis), a prospect not named Fiala, a draft pick. Maybe a bottom-six player for roster depth, say Beck or Bourque. If they're giving up more than that, well, frankly I'd pass. The only point of trading for a Kessel would be to improve the existing roster and if you give up multiple roster players to get him you haven't really improved anything.

Jones shouldn't be considered.

Assuming no retention, framework should be:
player+prospect+2016 1st+dump (Stalberg)

If Fiala, then the player/prospect shouldn't be a significant one (e.g. none of Smith, Wilson, Ellis).

Just Examples: Smith+Aberg/Salomaki+2016 1st+Stalberg, Fiala+Watson+2016 1st+Stalberg

Toronto fans won't like those packages, but that's the most I would want to see Poile give up.