Or the team claims it was blindsided. There are certain things you say publically and other things privately.
Besides, Friedman said it was happening so it must be on.
St. Louis Moving AHL Affiliate to Kansas City?
- Thread starter Mike Jones
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Or the team claims it was blindsided. There are certain things you say publically and other things privately.
Besides, Friedman said it was happening so it must be on.
Woo Hockey
@WooHockeyNews
Or the team claims it was blindsided. There are certain things you say publically and other things privately.
Besides, Friedman said it was happening so it must be on.
Just like the Binghamton Senators saying they aren't moving to Belleville and then announcing the move a few months later.
GareFan18
Registered User
Or the team claims it was blindsided. There are certain things you say publically and other things privately.
Besides, Friedman said it was happening so it must be on.
I do agree that Friedman is right about these things more times than not.
I've heard Lamar is very concerned about the increased overhead of an AHL team -- $43K minimum salary. I suppose if Utica can do it, KC can do it. Still....the overhead of an AHL team is significantly higher.
I read somewhere that AHL players on NHL contracts are paid by the parent club. Wouldn't that cut down on an AHL team's overhead?
210
Registered User
The vast majority of times, players on AHL contracts are paid by the NHL affiliate too.
GareFan18
Registered User
But, the parent club doesn't assign ALL the players, right? It was my understanding that part of an AHL roster is made up of minor league free agents (members of the PHPA rather than NHLPA). The AHL team signs and pays those minor league free agents, no?
A $43,000/year minimum salary in the AHL for several players is still a lot more money than the ECHL's $12.500/week salary cap for the entire roster. I'll admit. I'm much more versed in how an ECHL team, like the Mavericks, signs and pays players than the AHL. For instance, I think AHL players pay for their own housing, whereas ECHL players do not.
bleedblue1223
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2011
- 51,911
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The other aspect of this is how much funding the Blues would offer for a potential partnership with Hunt on an AHL team. It's very possible that Hunt would not be solely responsible for the increased costs. Who knows what that partnership would be like and the rumors of him joining the ownership group could offer him more benefits.
If a player on an AHL contract is assigned to the ECHL affiliate who picks up the tab for that contract?
I think I read somewhere on these boards that it costs more to run an ECHL team than one in the A and one of the reasons was player salaries.
I'm certain the NHL parent club pays all costs associated with players on an NHL contract.
The way things are going with player development now, I wouldn't be surprised if the NHL team also paid a substantial portion of hockey staff salaries too.
Of course, so many NHL teams now own their AHL affiliate that it's become moot who pays what.
210
Registered User
In virtually every AHL/NHL affiliation agreement, the NHL team pays every bit of salary for every player. I have heard that Hershey and Chicago sign players that they pay for, but I have never bothered to confirm that so I use the term "virtually every".
Any player assigned to the ECHL by a higher league, be it on an NHL ELC or AHL two-way contract, has his salary paid by either the NHL or AHL team; who pays is dependent on the AHL/NHL affiliation agreement (generally, it's the NHL team). Housing is the ECHL team's responsibility, per their CBA.
The ECHL salary cap hit for AHL/NHL players assigned to the league is based on the amount determined by the CBA between the ECHL and PHPA.
Last that I recall, it is 16 out of 30 AHL teams that are owned by their NHL parents, so 47% aren't like that, if the number is still correct.
I would like to work at a place where it is moot about who pays for what. I think that is called a "government job". The taxpayers have an unlimited amount of money; right before the recall elections!
Or the team claims it was blindsided. There are certain things you say publically and other things privately.
Besides, Friedman said it was happening so it must be on.
Is this another "Dickie Dunn said it, so it must be true"? LOL
GareFan18
Registered User
In the 2015-2016 ECHL season, if a player on a two-way AHL/ECHL contract was sent down to an ECHL team, that player counted against the ECHL cap. Richard Matvichuk told us how much it was, but I can't remember now. I want to say $800/week, but I'm not sure that's correct. Anyway, Matvichuk told us guys sent down from the AHL caused a cap headache because they sometimes had to whack $25 or $50 off someone else's pay for the week to get under the weekly cap. The Mavericks developed in-house software to account for those deductions, so they could make it up to that player later in the season when they had the cap space.
210
Registered User
The ECHL team pays the first $525 of an AHL contracted player's salary, and that's the salary cap hit for the player. The rest of the player's salary is the responsibility of the assigning team.
Now granted I'm not close to a salary cap guru, I'm not sure how an assigned player would cause any headaches as the $525/week cap hit would be below the $600-ish/week average ECHL player salary.
wildcat48
Registered User
Players’ salaries in the AHL are paid almost exclusively by the NHL. The lone exception might be the one or two players in Hershey or Chicago where they’ll sign somebody to an AHL-only deal. Even then, if that player is of any quality they’ll sign two-way NHL deal meaning the NHL team will pay that player’s salary.
An AHL team might take on extra salary, but it’s usually done through the affiliation agreement. Where real player cost adds up for an AHL team is paying worker’s compensation premiums and other insurance cost. Ultimately, the number one expense for an AHL team beside their affiliation and lease agreements is travel.
An AHL team might take on extra salary, but it’s usually done through the affiliation agreement. Where real player cost adds up for an AHL team is paying worker’s compensation premiums and other insurance cost. Ultimately, the number one expense for an AHL team beside their affiliation and lease agreements is travel.
Tommy Hawk
Registered User
- May 27, 2006
- 4,223
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I am not sure where or why people on this board keep thinking a team can just move up from the ECHL to the AHL or from the AHL to the ECHL.
Right now, the Blues DO NOT own an AHL franchise license so all this talk is moot/speculation.
You are correct in that the players salary is governed by the agreement as is the price the AHL team pays for the agreement. The agreement also overs who hires who in the organization as well as which party pays which costs.
There is significant variations in each team's agreement with the NHL club. I know that the Wolves typically pay a much higher affiliation fee than other teams so that they can run their operation more independently.
Of course, for almost all the teams owned by the NHL club all the costs of the operations are controlled absorbed by the NHL club.
This is inaccurate. Utica for example has several players on ahl contracts. Archibold., Negrin,sheilds, Bancks and Hamilton are all AHL contracts. Most AHL teams sign a couple guys and stuff them in the echl so when callups happen they have bodies.
210
Registered User
There is a huge omission in this discussion about "who pays the salaries" - the NHL affiliation agreement fee. Independent teams pay the NHL team a fee of around 1 million per year. This is what allows them to receive the NHL players on assignment (whose salaries are paid by the NHL team). For 20 players, that amounts to $50k per player in salary.
AHL teams can also sign independent players (usually veterans). Teams like Hershey wind up signing a couple of high-caliber players since high attendance brings high discretionary income.
AHL teams can also sign independent players (usually veterans). Teams like Hershey wind up signing a couple of high-caliber players since high attendance brings high discretionary income.
210
Registered User
Except for individual cases in Chicago and Hershey, who sign some of their own players with the team's own money, all player salaries are paid for by the NHL affiliate. With the exception of those two teams, it doesn't matter if the player is assigned to the AHL team by the NHL team, if the player is on contract to the AHL team, or if the player is on an AHL/ECHL contract...the NHL team pays the player's salary.
Yes, the affiliation fee the AHL team pays to the NHL team indirectly pays some of the salary, but in no case does any AHL team's affiliation fee come close to covering all the hockey related expenses the NHL team covers.
210...The National Hockey League only pays the salary of players that are under contracts to that team...ex...The St. Louis Blues do Not pay Brett Sterling of the Wolves nor do they pay Scooter Vaughn or anyone else signed by the Wolves...The Wolves pay those players and it's like that for ALL 30 NHL teams. The NHL teams only pay the players that are signed by them and 1 of their 50 allowed contracts, no matter what league the player is in...to do otherwise would be in direct violation of the CBA and would result in fines being accessed to the NHL team for being over the contract limit.
wildcat48
Registered User
The NHL/NHLPA CBA only applies to players who are signed to two-way NHL/AHL contracts. There is nothing in the CBA that stipulates that an NHL team can’t sign and pay a player on an AHL-only contract as they’d be governed by different CBA.
In almost every case the NHL team pays salary cost for every player on the AHL team including players that sign AHL-only contracts and professional tryout agreements throughout the year.
An NHL team usually handles all cost associated with hockey operations of the AHL club which include salaries for players, coaches, training and medical staff while the AHL team is responsible for day-to-day business operations which include ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, paying right’s fees to the AHL for various items such as AHL live and adhering to the cost associated with the affiliation and lease agreements.
If you noticed I said “almost†because there are a few instances and I’d point exclusively to either Chicago or Hershey has the two teams where it would happen that an AHL team would absorb a player’s salary for the season. I’d said it rare. Maybe less than 10 players, more likely within five players currently in the league are on an AHL-only deal where their salary is paid exclusively by the AHL club. So, it’s very possible that a player like Brett Sterling signed an AHL deal with Chicago and not being paid at all by St. Louis because that’s how the affiliation agreement was structure. In Hershey, it might be different where a player signs a two-way deal and Hershey pays a percentage of the AHL contract if that player in the AHL. It allows Washington and Hershey to sign a player and offer a higher AHL salary because Hershey is willing to absorb the difference.
There are also operations like Florida where they pay all salaries exclusively whether it was Portland last season or Springfield this season. Just to use two players that played for Portland last year Wade Megan (St. Louis system?) and Rob Schremp (Europe) were on AHL only deals and were paid by the Panthers.
In addition to paying for business operation associated with running the actual team, an AHL team will handle cost for team travel as they are usually tied with corporate sponsorships. Teams usually do not rent the bus on a per game basis, but lease it for a season or multiple seasons. Depending on the lease, it may or may not include the driver. It never includes the fuel, insurance or state and federal surcharges for operating a bus. Same with hotel cost. The PHPA CBA mandates hotels meet certain standard. Teams also must allow a player to have a single room if they request it based on their tenure. There is also per diem, team meals for breakfast lunch and dinner. Most hotels include a continental style breakfast in the cost of the rooms. Lunch and team dinner are not included. If a team does fly, they not only have to pay the cost of each player for a commercial flight, but they also pay a weight surcharge for their equipment. Teams that fly also must pay for a bus for the time they are on the ground whether it’s just to get from the airport to the hotel and rink or if they are going to use it to travel to another city.
They also pay a membership dues to the AHL, right’s fee for AHL Live, affiliation agreements which might stipulate everything from the type of shampoo and soap used in the showers to who will pay insurance cost for i.e. medical insurance, workers comp insurance etc., and lease agreement with the arena which again stipulates who pays for staff that man the games, work in concessions, security etc.
wildcat48
Registered User
Affiliation fees never include an amount for salaries because its such a variable... i.e. injuries, recalls etc. Also, affiliation agreements vary in amount. The amount for the final year of the AZ/Portland affiliation deal was only about $575K where as Portland's affiliation agreement with Florida was just shy of $800k. That's in comparison with Hartford's who is paying MSG $1.5 million for the right to operate the Wolf Pack at the XL Center.
wildcat48
Registered User
My preference was an NHL team in KC, which is why I wanted the expansion teams there and in Houston so that Colorado could go to the Pacific.
Let's see how this plays out.
Let's see how this plays out.
