St. Louis Moving AHL Affiliate to Kansas City?

[Mike Jones]

I've just checked out Friedman's 30 thoughts and see that at #28 he claims St. Louis is moving it's AHL affiliate to Kansas City (Link Below). It would be an interesting move. Is it true that they're making the move?

Link: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-florida-panthers-ambitious-leap/

Click to read more...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I've just checked out Friedman's 30 thoughts and see that at #28 he claims St. Louis is moving it's AHL affiliate to Kansas City (Link Below). It would be an interesting move. Is it true that they're making the move?

Link: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-florida-panthers-ambitious-leap/

DIDN'T St. Louis sell the AHL affiliate to Vancouver a couple years ago? after the botched Worcester Ice Cat to Peoria Rivermen controversy/announcement? Vancouver then teamed up w/ Robert Esche To establish the Utica Comets, this was also posted in the Las Vegas thread of BOH, TOO, Mike.

the only way I can see it happening is another team opting out of an EXISTING agreement by selling its owned/operated affiliate to St. Louis or St. Louis and Vegas sharing Chicago(Rosemont, IL), Neither scenario seems plausable if the current MO is for the NHL club buying its AHL Affiliate as we saw with the creation of the AHL Pacific Division and Arizona did buying Springfield to move it to Tucson.

It is highly unlikely Florida would get into the business of being an owner/operator after finally having their prospects in the same time zone as the parent club (San Antonio to Portland/Springfield).

Will Vancouver go west and join the Pacific should be the next question rather than Kansas City, but the Missouri Mavericks(Independence/ECHL) seem to thrive/serve KC well.

 

[wildcat48]

Yup...

ST. LOUIS, MO. - Kansas City and the Blues -- The Blues will house a new home for a new American Hockey League team, according to a source.

The Blues, who have been with the AHL's Chicago Wolves for four seasons, including the current one, will cut ties with the Wolves at the conclusion of the 2027 [sic] season and form an affiliation with a team that will be based in Kansas City owned by Lamar Hunt Jr., whose father Lamar Hunt founded the Kansas City Chiefs, and former Blues defenseman Tom Tilley.

According to the source, it's pretty much "a done deal."

Link>>>>

NOTE: 2027 is a typo... It should read 2017.

They will play at the Sprint Center in KC. Vegas will affiliate with the Wolves starting in 2017.

 

[Agalloch]

Yup...



Link>>>>

NOTE: 2027 is a typo... It should read 2017.

They will play at the Sprint Center in KC. Vegas will affiliate with the Wolves starting in 2017.

So the Blues bought the 31th franchise ?

 

[Mike Jones]

So the Blues bought the 31th franchise ?

Must have. I didn't think the AHL was going to expand even with the Vegas addition to the NHL.

It's full circle in one way - St. Louis had their AHL affiliate in KC back in the 70's.

 

[Woo Hockey]

Must have. I didn't think the AHL was going to expand even with the Vegas addition to the NHL.

It's full circle in one way - St. Louis had their AHL affiliate in KC back in the 70's.

Eventually the AHL was going to expand to have the same amount of teams that the NHL has, same goes for the ECHL.

Wasn't expecting a 31st team so soon especially with Vegas sharing a team next season.

 

[Mike Jones]

Wasn't expecting a 31st team so soon especially with Vegas sharing a team next season.

Neither was I. It's going to be interesting to see how they fill a complete AHL roster in one offseason.

Back to KC - I'm surprised they're going to the Sprint Center. I didn't think management there wanted hockey and that was what was blocking the NHL from moving in.

 

[mk80]

Lamar Hunt Jr. owner of the Mavericks, Chiefs, and a new USHL team bought it so the Blues won't own it directly apart from Hunt getting a stake in the Blues ownership. Good move I've been hoping this would happen.

http://www.ksdk.com/mb/sports/blues-to-move-ahl-affiliation-to-kc/359281725

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Huh, that's interesting..... from the Wolves perspective. Load of Chicago transplants live in Vegas, so I definitely see them being a popular Hawks road destination for both resident Hawks fans and visitors, and having an affiliate that's not a bitter rival of the Hawks might help their marketing a tad, too.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Huh, that's interesting..... from the Wolves perspective. Load of Chicago transplants live in Vegas, so I definitely see them being a popular Hawks road destination for both resident Hawks fans and visitors, and having an affiliate that's not a bitter rival of the Hawks might help their marketing a tad, too.

Another perk for the Wolves is they don't have to worry about any prospects from the NHL team for awhile. They can run the team how they actually want to, at least in the beginning.

 

[Mike Jones]

Another perk for the Wolves is they don't have to worry about any prospects from the NHL team for awhile. They can run the team how they actually want to, at least in the beginning.

Um - not really. There is a limit on how many "veterans" (I think the limit is 260 games) the Wolves can dress so they will need a large number of younger players on their roster regardless of who the parent team is. I know the Wolves have historically preferred lineups that were dominated by veteran players but that simply isn't possible in today's AHL. It's a development league - developing young prospects is what they are supposed to be doing.

 

[GareFan18]

Long time KC resident here and general board lurker.

A few things:

-Lamar Hunt Jr. is not going to give up his ownership of the Missouri Mavericks. If anything, he'll continue to own the Mavs and own a piece of the Blues. By doing so, I guess you could say the Blues "own" the AHL team...kind of.

-I don't see the move to Sprint Center happening. Sprint Center, and the city of KCMO, have made it fairly obvious that they do NOT want a minor league hockey team absorbing weekend dates. Even with the sporadic concert/sports event schedule Sprint Center currently has, the building turns a profit for AEG, which AEG subsequently shares with the city of KCMO.

-The Mavs current arena in Independence, MO (about 20 minutes East of KC and 10-15 minutes East of Arrowhead) is just fine for the AHL. As a matter of fact, it's the exact same capacity/architecture as Cedar Park Center where the Texas Stars play.

-KC is a good AAA market. The Kansas City Blades consistently drew 7,000+ each season (which would put them close to the top 10 in the current AHL).

-Lamar Hunt, Jr. owns a dormant USHL franchise. They'll start playing when the new 5K-6K seat arena is done in Southern Overland Park, KS (about 30 minutes South of downtown KC).

I'm going to try to go to the Mavericks game tonight and get more info.

Questions?

 

[Mike Jones]

Questions?

Thank you for the summary and your thoughts.

I've heard about Sprint Center's reluctance to lease to a hockey team but I thought they were more concerned about the NHL than the AHL. I thought their concerns were based on the revenue demands of the NHL.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Um - not really. There is a limit on how many "veterans" (I think the limit is 260 games) the Wolves can dress so they will need a large number of younger players on their roster regardless of who the parent team is. I know the Wolves have historically preferred lineups that were dominated by veteran players but that simply isn't possible in today's AHL. It's a development league - developing young prospects is what they are supposed to be doing.

Yes and no. When you affiliate with a club like the Blues or any other established club with a lot of AHL ready prospects, it limits your flexibility on what vets you can sign. Sometimes you can benefit by having some star prospects, but other times, you get bad prospects that end up being in the lineup.

Being with Vegas will allow them to sign vets to more key roles instead of having prospects that might not be as good in those roles. There are a few examples on the Wolves roster. Having low level prospects and high level vets would be the Wolves preference IMO. With a team like the Blues, it's going to be a mix of both.

 

[GareFan18]

Thank you for the summary and your thoughts.

I've heard about Sprint Center's reluctance to lease to a hockey team but I thought they were more concerned about the NHL than the AHL. I thought their concerns were based on the revenue demands of the NHL.

Well, the sharing revenue part is true. Most NHL owners also control all non-hockey related revenue in their arena. For instance, Nashville has never been a candidate for relocation because the Predators control all revenue in the arena, whether it's the Preds or the Globetrotters or an Adele show.

The city has an agreement with AEG in which AEG operates the arena, controls revenue and revenue-shares with the city. A minor league hockey team would insert a 3rd party into that equation. There doesn't seem to be much interest in doing so. Because an NHL team would draw 12k, 13k, 14k, and all those bodies (and $$) to the P&L District across the street, I think concessions could be made in the lease agreement. I don't see the same concessions being made for a minor league hockey team that would draw half that many people.

 

[Ralph Slate]

Questions?

Yes. Do you think that it is conceivable that the Kansas City metro area can support an AHL, ECHL, and USHL team simultaneously? Or are you suggesting that the ECHL team will be removed and replaced with the AHL team?

In that second case, do you think the market can support both a USHL and an AHL team, with the USHL team being expected to draw somewhere around 2,500?

 

[GareFan18]

Yes. Do you think that it is conceivable that the Kansas City metro area can support an AHL, ECHL, and USHL team simultaneously? Or are you suggesting that the ECHL team will be removed and replaced with the AHL team?

In that second case, do you think the market can support both a USHL and an AHL team, with the USHL team being expected to draw somewhere around 2,500?

From what I understand, the Mavericks would leave the ECHL and become an AHL team, affiliated with the Blues.

Yes, I believe the city can support both USHL and AHL teams, with the USHL team drawing ~2,500. Members of the Mavericks' sales staff say a majority of their season ticket base comes from the Independence/Liberty/Blue Springs/Lee's Summit area -- MO suburbs. Lamar Hunt wants to grow hockey metrowide and sees South Overland Park, KS as an area of potential growth. Therefore, the USHL team would, most likely, draw from South OP/Olathe/Shawnee and wouldn't cannibalize an AHL team's sales too much. It's 35 miles from where the Mavericks play to where the new arena will be. USHL teams play fewer games -- basically Fri/Sat. every other weekend.

The new arena at 159th and Antioch is going to be a dual sheet facility, so plenty of ice time for youth hockey to grow in South OP.

 

[bleedblue1223]

From what I understand, the Mavericks would leave the ECHL and become an AHL team, affiliated with the Blues.

Yes, I believe the city can support both USHL and AHL teams, with the USHL team drawing ~2,500. Members of the Mavericks' sales staff say a majority of their season ticket base comes from the Independence/Liberty/Blue Springs/Lee's Summit area -- MO suburbs. Lamar Hunt wants to grow hockey metrowide and sees South Overland Park, KS as an area of potential growth. Therefore, the USHL team would, most likely, draw from South OP/Olathe/Shawnee and wouldn't cannibalize an AHL team's sales too much. It's 35 miles from where the Mavericks play to where the new arena will be. USHL teams play fewer games -- basically Fri/Sat. every other weekend.

The new arena at 159th and Antioch is going to be a dual sheet facility, so plenty of ice time for youth hockey to grow in South OP.

Exactly. The USHL team can be supported on Johnson County alone. Lots of people and lots of money, so getting a could thousand a night wouldn't be difficult. The AHL team if it stays in the area will keep the current ticket sales that the Mavs have with thee Lee's Summit/Blues Springs/Independence crowd, and also people originally from St. Louis or just Blues fans that want to see the prospects play.

 

[GareFan18]

Exactly. The USHL team can be supported on Johnson County alone. Lots of people and lots of money, so getting a could thousand a night wouldn't be difficult. The AHL team if it stays in the area will keep the current ticket sales that the Mavs have with thee Lee's Summit/Blues Springs/Independence crowd, and also people originally from St. Louis or just Blues fans that want to see the prospects play.

Correct. I also think it would help the Mavs market the team. Hockey fans know the Mavs are in the ECHL. Non-hockey folks may still associate them with the unaffiliated CHL.

Being able to say, "St. Louis Blues AAA affiliate" and market the affiliation on FSMW would really help. Every Blues game is on TV here in KC. Fans seeing the 1st round pick draft pick play in KC one month and then see him on TV with the Blues the next month will really help generate interest. Not to mention NHL players who get sent down for a rehab game or two.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Correct. I also think it would help the Mavs market the team. Hockey fans know the Mavs are in the ECHL. Non-hockey folks may still associate them with the unaffiliated CHL.

Being able to say, "St. Louis Blues AAA affiliate" and market the affiliation on FSMW would really help. Every Blues game is on TV here in KC. Fans seeing the 1st round pick draft pick play in KC one month and then see him on TV with the Blues the next month will really help generate interest. Not to mention NHL players who get sent down for a rehab game or two.

Yep. I'm originally from St. Louis and my family had and still has season tickets for the Blues, and I've never went to a Mavs game. I'd rather just get my hockey fix of making more trips to St. Louis to watch the Blues. With an AHL affiliate, I'd go to at least 10 games to get my fix and be able to watch our prospects coming up.

Living in Parkville, I'd prefer a more centrally located arena like the Sprint Center, but that's not going to happen.

 

[mk80]

The ECHL will be replaced by the AHL similar to what happened on the west coast. The ECHL franchise rights will be sold back to the league and I'm sure will eventually be moved onto another city. In my perspective from traveling over to see the Mavericks during the last lockout and talking with fans they seem to draw well from the Missouri suburbs but they're pull from the KC, Kansas side is lower, so the USHL in the furthest parts of those suburbs will easily be sustainable along with the Mavericks. Lets not forget they are all owned by the same man who also the KC Chiefs so he has the money to sustain both.

 

[paul-laus]

Long time KC resident here and general board lurker.

A few things:

-Lamar Hunt Jr. is not going to give up his ownership of the Missouri Mavericks. If anything, he'll continue to own the Mavs and own a piece of the Blues. By doing so, I guess you could say the Blues "own" the AHL team...kind of.

-I don't see the move to Sprint Center happening. Sprint Center, and the city of KCMO, have made it fairly obvious that they do NOT want a minor league hockey team absorbing weekend dates. Even with the sporadic concert/sports event schedule Sprint Center currently has, the building turns a profit for AEG, which AEG subsequently shares with the city of KCMO.

-The Mavs current arena in Independence, MO (about 20 minutes East of KC and 10-15 minutes East of Arrowhead) is just fine for the AHL. As a matter of fact, it's the exact same capacity/architecture as Cedar Park Center where the Texas Stars play.

-KC is a good AAA market. The Kansas City Blades consistently drew 7,000+ each season (which would put them close to the top 10 in the current AHL).

-Lamar Hunt, Jr. owns a dormant USHL franchise. They'll start playing when the new 5K-6K seat arena is done in Southern Overland Park, KS (about 30 minutes South of downtown KC).

I'm going to try to go to the Mavericks game tonight and get more info.

Questions?

The Texas Stars home is no longer known as the Cedar Park Centre but rather H-E-B Centre at Cedar Park after the Texas based supermarket chain.

 

[mk80]

Mavericks released this statement today. I would guess they are covering their tracks as the news came too soon.

 

[Mike Jones]

Mavericks released this statement today. I would guess they are covering their tracks as the news came too soon.

So the release still leaves room for a move to the A.

And the Islanders' logo in the lower left is a nice touch.

 

[GareFan18]

The ECHL will be replaced by the AHL similar to what happened on the west coast. The ECHL franchise rights will be sold back to the league and I'm sure will eventually be moved onto another city. In my perspective from traveling over to see the Mavericks during the last lockout and talking with fans they seem to draw well from the Missouri suburbs but they're pull from the KC, Kansas side is lower, so the USHL in the furthest parts of those suburbs will easily be sustainable along with the Mavericks. Lets not forget they are all owned by the same man who also the KC Chiefs so he has the money to sustain both.

If you are asking the age-old hockey question, "Who own da Chiefs?", technically, your answer is not correct.Lamar Hunt Jr.'s sports entity, Loretto Sports Ventures, owns the Mavericks and the dormant USHL team.
Lamar Hunt, Jr. the individual is on the Board of Directors of the KC Chiefs.

Clark Hunt is the Chairman of the Board and, technically, owns the Chiefs.

Now, since that is cleared up, I went to the game tonight.

The Mavs were a bit blindsided by this announcement. At this time, there is nothing to it. They weren't even sure how to respond because it came out of nowhere.

We all know that there is a silly season of AHL/ECHL team relocation. I suspect we won't know what is true until the silly season of franchises moving around begins. If I were to place a bet on it, I'd bet the Mavericks will be in the ECHL next season.