St. Louis Blues media - NHL softest?

KingBran

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Apr 24, 2014
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I was maybe the only guy who liked when we signed Upshall. Do I need to bring up that post? Jaskin in other hand is garbage, he's just there, like Sundqvist, Bennett, Pääjärvi etc.
They are 3rd/4th liners. What do you want? A team full of 1st liners? Wouldn't that be great?

Not possible though. For 3rd/4th liners they are fine. Even if they are just "there" they are playing their role just fine. Not sure why the hate.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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They are 3rd/4th liners. What do you want? A team full of 1st liners? Wouldn't that be great?

Not possible though. For 3rd/4th liners they are fine. Even if they are just "there" they are playing their role just fine. Not sure why the hate.

I think the hate is coming because the Blues are not getting the secondary scoring you need to get from your 3rd and 4th lines now. Teams can't be two line teams. The defense has stepped up right now to provide that scoring, but will it continue? I think the fear and hate for the bottom 6, especially 3rd line, is they need to chip in a goal more than every once in a while. Fabbri, Sanford, and Berglund going down have severely hurt the Blues as far as icing a good 3rd line. Berglund coming back should help but if he's surrounded by Paajarvi, Sundqvist, Jaskin, Bennett, I don't see it really helping that much.

You almost need to drop Sobotka or Steen down to try and help Berglund. I know the Blues want Thompson, Kostin, and Blais to stay down and develop in top 6 roles, but at some point, you have to improve the depth of the NHL team. I truly think if Thompson or Kostin was on the wing of Stastny and Steen, they'd probably develop nicely and be protected by two good veterans. You then give Berglund and Sobotka a chance to pot some goals from the 3rd line. That's a little down the road yet, but this needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
 

KingBran

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Apr 24, 2014
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Blues are 5th in goals scored... We finally are getting guys to score at a consistent rate and the team is tops in the West. Pretty awesome really.

I just don't get hating on 3rd/4th liners who aren't expected to score at some crazy rate because they aren't scoring.

The Blues have a lot of young, hungry prospects that will work their way up through the ranks. Personally I don't want to see Stastny back on the 3rd line again, that was awful and immediately made people hate him for his lack of production. Why hinder your guys just to get your average NHL'ers a kick? What the Blues are doing is working right now.
 

The Note

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call out the production of that 3rd line at all. Calling them “garbage” or whatever else is hyperbole but it’s still a problem. The third line of Jaskin/Sundqvist/PRV has combined for 9 points in 30 total games. 3 of those points have been goals. Jaskin is pacing that group with 4 total points. They may not be expected to provide a ton of offense but it’s gotta be better than that. You can’t have a whole line that’s essentially a non factor most nights. Granted, getting Berglund back will hopefully help this problem, but in the meantime it’s still a concern.
 

Dbrownss

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Jan 5, 2014
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We need a guy who can create their own offense for the 3rd line....because neither Sundqvist or Paajarvi is a setup guy or finisher. When I say that, im refering to our prospects lol. I only see Kostin as that guy.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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Blues are 5th in goals scored... We finally are getting guys to score at a consistent rate and the team is tops in the West. Pretty awesome really.

I just don't get hating on 3rd/4th liners who aren't expected to score at some crazy rate because they aren't scoring.

The Blues have a lot of young, hungry prospects that will work their way up through the ranks. Personally I don't want to see Stastny back on the 3rd line again, that was awful and immediately made people hate him for his lack of production. Why hinder your guys just to get your average NHL'ers a kick? What the Blues are doing is working right now.

Where did someone say that? I didn't. I suggested dropping Sobotka down to the 3rd line after Berglund returns. He's clearly brought a good passing, playmaking style of play with him from the KHL. If you add a decent shooter like Berglund to that, it's a good 3rd line. Right now, the SSS line has a good playmaker, a solid playmaker, and 1 semi-shooter. I was saying I think Stastny and Steen could benefit more from a guy like Thompson or Kostin on their RW.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
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Where did someone say that? I didn't. I suggested dropping Sobotka down to the 3rd line after Berglund returns. He's clearly brought a good passing, playmaking style of play with him from the KHL. If you add a decent shooter like Berglund to that, it's a good 3rd line. Right now, the SSS line has a good playmaker, a solid playmaker, and 1 semi-shooter. I was saying I think Stastny and Steen could benefit more from a guy like Thompson or Kostin on their RW.
You were talking about dropping guys down to help out guys on lower lines. It was just something that I remember Hitch doing and it had awful results for the players that got dropped. Blues had no chemistry in those days.

I don't disagree that if guys get bumped up to their lines but only if it makes sense. Blues are playing better and getting more goals under Yeo because he is letting chemistry build up. Something Hitch was inept at.
 

Dbrownss

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I have zero interest in moving Sobokta off that line. As painful as it is...keep looking at prospects to bolster that 3rd line
 
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ezcreepin

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They are 3rd/4th liners. What do you want? A team full of 1st liners? Wouldn't that be great?

Not possible though. For 3rd/4th liners they are fine. Even if they are just "there" they are playing their role just fine. Not sure why the hate.
Exactly, not everyone can be like Toronto lol. We were all obviously hoping for a bit more production from the 3rd line, but you sacrifice offense for good enough defense with this team.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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You were talking about dropping guys down to help out guys on lower lines. It was just something that I remember Hitch doing and it had awful results for the players that got dropped. Blues had no chemistry in those days.

I don't disagree that if guys get bumped up to their lines but only if it makes sense. Blues are playing better and getting more goals under Yeo because he is letting chemistry build up. Something Hitch was inept at.

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I like the Yeo let's chemistry develop. Keeping Schwartz and Schenn together has been magic. Keeping Tarasenko there for more than a game or two has also greatly helped the team. Steen and Stastny have always shown some chemistry when paired together. You don't have to move Sobotka. Let the prospect fill in on the 3rd line again if you feel that's what best for their development. I was looking at it from the perspective of what's best for the development and who was the most logical player to play down a line. Sobotka has played well on that wing, but I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective that eventually, the Blues will need the depth scoring of the bottom two lines if they are going to make it through the season, and into the post-season. So far, it isn't coming from their current bottom 6. Upshall, Brodziak, and fill-in have done fine, but they could still contribute more as could the revolving door of a 3rd line. I also don't think getting Berglund back fixes that. They need to find more support.
 
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ezcreepin

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call out the production of that 3rd line at all. Calling them “garbage” or whatever else is hyperbole but it’s still a problem. The third line of Jaskin/Sundqvist/PRV has combined for 9 points in 30 total games. 3 of those points have been goals. Jaskin is pacing that group with 4 total points. They may not be expected to provide a ton of offense but it’s gotta be better than that. You can’t have a whole line that’s essentially a non factor most nights. Granted, getting Berglund back will hopefully help this problem, but in the meantime it’s still a concern.
Though I agree to an extent about the production of the 3rd line, Jaskin is on pace for about 27 points this year, which is respectable for a 3rd liner (Berglund with 34 last year). I hope Sundqvist finds some offensive instincts this year as well. I'd be fine with 20 points from him, 30 ish from bergy, and if jaskin can actually hit 27, that'd be gold I'd say. 4th line will do what they have to do, and while our prospects are doing their thing in the ahl, we will have a steady enough 3rd line. Also forgot about Sanford, so he could help out the offense there with bergy/sundqvist/jaskin too.
 
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The Note

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Yeah after I typed that all up I actually looked at the numbers myself. Your point is well taken. I would still contend that it’s more than the points, that line just doesn’t seem to bring much. Every so often they’ll have a nice possession where they cycle it around the zone but it doesn’t lead to much. I’m not expecting the third line to be some sort of dynamic force but I think there’s a lot of room for improvement there.
 

bluesfan94

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Jan 7, 2008
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Yeah after I typed that all up I actually looked at the numbers myself. Your point is well taken. I would still contend that it’s more than the points, that line just doesn’t seem to bring much. Every so often they’ll have a nice possession where they cycle it around the zone but it doesn’t lead to much. I’m not expecting the third line to be some sort of dynamic force but I think there’s a lot of room for improvement there.
I think you underestimate the importance of possession like that. Sure, it might end with a easy save for the goalie or something along those lines, but a shift spent cycling is a minute or so without any danger and playing chase on defense is a lot more tiring than offense. It's a good thing and exactly what you want from a lower line.
 

The Note

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I think you underestimate the importance of possession like that. Sure, it might end with a easy save for the goalie or something along those lines, but a shift spent cycling is a minute or so without any danger and playing chase on defense is a lot more tiring than offense. It's a good thing and exactly what you want from a lower line.

It’s less about the points or quality of the shot they get. I appreciate the wear and tear a possession spent entirely defending your own zone takes. My gripe is more that they don’t do it on any sort of consistent basis. It’s a line that seems to go missing for a chunk of a period(s). Again, I’m not expecting 3 first lines here, it just hasn’t been, to me, an effective line.
 

bluesfan94

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It’s less about the points or quality of the shot they get. I appreciate the wear and tear a possession spent entirely defending your own zone takes. My gripe is more that they don’t do it on any sort of consistent basis. It’s a line that seems to go missing for a chunk of a period(s). Again, I’m not expecting 3 first lines here, it just hasn’t been, to me, an effective line.
Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. I think they (and the fourth line) are doing enough right now to keep winning games and both lines should be stronger once Berglund comes back. I'm also hopeful, perhaps foolishly so, that one of the young guys will figure it out and add value, whether that's someone in the NHL right now or AHL.
 

CaliforniaBlues310

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In regards to the third line, I think getting Berglund back will help. Then eventually Barbie will be back, and hopefully one of Kostin or Blais sticks too. That IMO would make us a way deeper team than we are at this current day.

Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Steen-Stastny-Sobotka/Berglund
Berglund/Sobotka-Barbashev-Kostin/Blais
Paajarvi/Upshall-Sundqvist-Brodziak
Jaskin
 

hullderko

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Apr 21, 2015
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If anyone in the media is reading this...

At the next press conference, please focus all questions on the power play. Thank you. We are desperate.
 

Ranksu

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I trasefered discussion in here. Change it back if needed.

From the narrative that JR creates, then you have to blame Armstrong.

JR implies we have the same issues year-after-year, but he pins that on the players. If he wants to say that there has been an on-going issue for years, surely he should be asking why Armstrong hasn't dealt with it?

He often talks about lack of leadership/accountability/toughness/whatever. Armstrong knew what Pietrangelo and Steen were like as leaders, and he let other guys go. We haven't brought in anyone more vocal. If he wants to paint this as a big problem, then it's a problem Armstrong walked into with his eyes open.

He doesn't name the players who are only playing for the "paycheck or the lifestyle", but it's interesting that we all immediately thought he was talking about Berglund. Who signed these guys? If Berglund is one of them, who gave him 5 year, $19.25m contract?

I still think that JR is talking out of his ass. It's just interesting that he chooses to create talking points that logically go back to Armstrong, but he doesn't take it there. Always the players.


I'm happy that I haven't followed him to Athetic and subscribe that. I know there is good other writers. I've never liked JR's writing, he's good at info what happends in game, injury wise etc. but other on that he was first ass licking guy and now when he has freedom to speak looks like he's going wrong patch and only hurting himself.
Shocking, but generally I like that at least somebody is speaking openly about what they think what is Blues problem currently. Him beeing wrong or right doesn't matter.
 

wannabebluesplayer

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Apr 16, 2012
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I trasefered discussion in here. Change it back if needed.




I'm happy that I haven't followed him to Athetic and subscribe that. I know there is good other writers.
I've never liked JR's writing, he's good at info what happends in game, injury wise etc. but other on that he was first ass licking guy and now when he has freedom to speak looks like he's going wrong patch and only hurting himself.
Shocking, but generally I like that at least somebody is speaking openly about what they think what is Blues problem currently. Him beeing wrong or right doesn't matter.

Outside of his personal opinions on the team, I think JR is a good writer. Some of his stories about the players have been excellent. The Athletic is much better when you read Evan Sporer, Pierre LeBrun, Craig Custance, etc. To me, JR is a guy who was forced into covering hockey and has made his career out of being good enough for it. I don't think he displays a high level of understanding for the game, but he understands it well enough. There are times I think he goes out of his depth to make assumptions, but there are other times he brings up valid points. You could go either way on this.

I do think the Athletic is well worth the money though. Many good writers and breakdowns in there. That Kyrou skating article was excellent. It actually helped me understand more about the game of hockey.
 

stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
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Here is the Q&A exchange from JR's latest "mailbag" article that is generating the current controversy. (If this not allowed due to site rules, my bad!)

Hey JR,

There's no beating around the bush — the Predator loss was brutal. That game glorified every strength the Blues have and magnified every weakness as well. And in my opinion, the weaknesses outshined the strengths. This very frustrated fan of 30 years has all but turned the page on this season as the Blues have not shown they have the capability to play against the likes of a team with Moxi like the Predators, Lightning or even the Pens.

My sentiment is at this point I'd rather see them miss the playoffs this year, have a gut check over the summer and come back embarrassed and on a mission next year. I think it'd be the best thing for the team honestly because they need something to change the culture in that locker room and missing the playoffs with talent like they have may do it. It's clear whatever message Mike Yeo is suggesting or leadership tactics being used by the vets isn't working. Do you think missing the playoffs is what this team needs to 'wake up'?

-Gary

JR said:
In order to answer this question, I need to break it down into two parts and keep it as real as possible.

1) Would missing the playoffs wake up the Blues?

2) If the Blues missed the playoffs, would Doug Armstrong make the necessary moves to change the culture?

But before I answer No. 1, let's make sure we're on the same page. When someone asks me whether missing the playoffs would “wake up” the Blues, give them a “gut check” and put them “on a mission,” I take that to mean you're asking about the players. You might be referring to the organization from top to bottom, but I prefer to focus my answer from a players' perspective. And my answer is “no,” it would not wake up them any more than losing in the second round woke them up last season. Would they be disappointed? Certainly. Would they tell media and fans that it's unacceptable? More times than you want to hear. But would they do any more self-examination than they did any other year or talk more amongst themselves about why they're so inconsistent? No and no. Some of you might be asking why nothing would change. I'm not saying nothing would change. I'm just saying I don't believe the Blues missing the playoffs by three points is going to put a more determined, ticked off team on the ice next season. Call me fatigued on the end-of-the-season post-mortem interviews. Every May, I see a despondent group of players and every October-April I see the same group making the same mistakes and excuses.

Now No. 2, what could be a benefit of missing the playoffs: changing the culture. Whether the Blues make the playoffs or not, I think they have to address this issue. Listen, the Blues obviously have talented players and they have good people in their locker room. But I think they have a roster that has too many players who just brush everything off. Nothing is ever a major deal in their eyes. Yeah, they might get mad at times, but there's always another game tomorrow, there's always a chance to fix things. I understand that. It's a long season and you're not going to play well every night. You lose a game, you regroup and play better next time. But I believe, if they had more players who got pissed off in the moment, like let's turn this game around now, let's not wait for the next game, they'd have a better record. I think that part of the reason we don't see this is because they don't pull together like they should. I'm not saying these guys don't like playing together, but they don't pull together.

This is the part of my answer where I'll try to keep it as real as possible. I think some players resent that Vladimir Tarasenko doesn't work as hard as he should. I think some players who think that about Tarasenko aren't working as hard as they should be. I don't think the leaders are doing a good enough job of taking the different personalities in the locker room and making everybody feel like one. Is Dmitrij Jaskin a bit of a loner? Yeah. Have the Blues tried to make him feel like them? Maybe more than I know. But has it been enough? No. Not just with Jaskin, but others, too, whether it's been this year or in the past. That translates on the ice. Guys are just playing hockey, many of them not playing FOR EACH OTHER. And I haven't even mentioned the guys who are just playing for the paycheck or the lifestyle, which in this case I'm not going to name names, but they know who they are.

I truly believe that whether the Blues make the playoffs or not, Armstrong is going to have to address the attitude of this team. If I know it's a problem, he has to know. It will be hard to change the culture — it's hard to move contracts in the NHL — but I believe it's necessary. I don't believe the team's problems can be found in analyzing a bad goal, a bad loss or a bad homestand. I believe they're tied to the fact that it's a group of players who are passing the puck to each other because they were either drafted or signed contracts to play for the Blues and they happen to be wearing the same crest on their sweater — not because they're going to go to the front of the net, take a slash to the leg, absorb the pain and score a goal, because that's what you do for your teammates and your coach and your fans. When you can show me that that's how much these guys care, then I'll show you a team that doesn't poop its pants on the ice and then repeat the same B.S. to reporters game after game after game. Does that answer your question?
Readers: Could missing the playoffs actually benefit the...

I do wonder how much of this rant is about generating clicks and attention. Regardless, I do think JR makes some valid points (particularly about a lack of fire/passion from players during a game to turn it around or after a tough loss), even if he does over do it a bit.
 
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Ranksu

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People losing their shit when JR write clickbait articles and everybody are pissed. Good för JR

jprutherford.jpeg.256x256_q100_crop-smart.jpg
 

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