Rumor: St Louis and Columbus Discuss Hartnell.(e4)

[Cowumbus]

...including JK, who had him as being about at the same level as Hanifin.



The way you presented these made it seem like you consider a JJ-like outcome to be much more likely.

I think it is more likely, is it not?

 

[Jackets16]

In what way is it more likely? We have no clue how he will turn out, but based on what I have seen, I am expecting him to be better than Johnson.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I don't see my view on Werenski diverging from scouting so much as from folks on this board.

When I say I prefer Provorov, well so does most everyone outside of Columbus.

When I say Werenski could end up like a Jack Johnson type of player, I'm hardly the only one.

We all agree he could be truly great too, but I take that "could" rather seriously.

I'm sure I put some backhanded compliments in there somewhere. Evidently I don't know how to avoid it. It's just my honest evaluation.

FWIW I completely agree with you. I said similar stuff after we drafted him and got similar responses.

 

[mikeyp24]

First to address the Hartnell trade topic STL isnt the team for us to trade to it doesnt make much sense because we cant retain unless we get back REALLY nice pieces and from what ive seen stl fans say they apparently cant handle the cap. I take the first and prospect with no retention just fine even though losing his production would suck. Im a big hartnell fan always have been.

now to address everyone else.... Man everyone was screaming for us to get more D help because how pathetic it was and now that we got a whole 1 to help out in the future you want to trade the 18 year old who just captained the USWJC team and won the best dman of the tourny award for a guy in Drai who struggled his first little time in the league until this year. yes hes doing well this year but lets wait a little until we call him a 1C. he def has the potential but werenski could be the next bobby orr. there is no reason to trade a complete unknown that our GM was very confident in selecting and if there is one thing JK does well its scout and draft for both us and when he was in STL. We have PLENTY of center depth... we dont have a star #1C currently but maybe 10 teams have that... id rather take our stable of 3 #2Cs and our great depth of youth at D then go back to whaat we used to have on D again and have a maybe in Drai. build from within. Honestly the fans of this team **** on it more then the fans that know nothing about us. its crazy. we are allowed to admitt we have good players and good prospects even though we have the worst record there are more then enough reasons that caused us to be here between having the wrong coach to start the season... having our top line C come into the season out of shape then give up... injuries... bobs slow start followed with injuries... the record does not reflect the team we have... there was a reason we were predicted to make the playoffs this year and was a sleeper contender for many many people who know a lot more about the game then any of us. and what has changed since then? other then injuries we have improved the team as a whole!!!

 

[Jackets Fan]

Nah just keep him. Our dumbass GM would only get us a 2nd round pick+ garbage in return ( again ).

 

[CBJx614]

Nah just keep him. Our dumbass GM would only get us a 2nd round pick+ garbage in return ( again ).

Well that would still a + in my book. We gave up Umberger, for Hartnell. And by trading Hartnell for a pick we gain what 4.5M for the 3 years?

That's called unloading bad contracts. Although Hartnells contract isn't bad(yet), it could look atrocious if he dips below 35-40 pts a season

 

[alphafox]

Nah just keep him. Our dumbass GM would only get us a 2nd round pick+ garbage in return ( again ).

Which trade is a that again again? The trade for saad? the Wiz trade?Hartnell for Umberger? I understand that the fashionable thing is to bash Jarmo but even his bad trades aren't that bad. He got gaborik for spare parts as an experiment, and dumped him for slightly less value when it was clear the experiment didn't work and we weren't going to pay him. Johansen for Jones is pretty equal value (and Jones is more fun to watch, IMO). The biggest failure is the Clarkson trade, which was a reasonable gamble IMO.

Is Jarmo the best GM ever? Heck no. However he drafts and trades above average. His failing is his cap and real dollar management. Something that a Hartnell trade is an attempt to correct.

 

[blahblah]

I would close it and lock it with 1,000 locks. There is NO defenseman in this draft I would take over any of our "big 3". We potentially have a good, young defense for the first time in our history. Why would you want to trade one of them away?

That's nice. History tells us that there will be a few worthy picks.

I'll be honest there is not one of our posters that I trust with prospect evaluations, but thanks. It's nothing against them, but I think we've got a small handful that have ever seen these guys more than what they've seen in some youtube video's or maybe a small handful of games. I mainly trust scouts that get us, at least, into the ballpark but even they are hit or miss.

What I love is that we've got people tell us that our pick from last season is most likely to be a huge disappointment 3/4 and not we've got others saying he's going to be test best thing since sliced break.

You know what I'm looking at? The way to fit the pieces in to make the best team possible. It doesn't matter to me of it's someone a little better or even a little worse than what we have, if by a little worse we get an upgrade somewhere else. If we miss out on the #1 pick and we can get a top line player back and draft a D that will be 90%+ of what we have (or in this case what we will have), I think that would be wonderful. Hell I'm sure we still have those paranoid that he'll never sign a contract with us and will just sign a UFA contract in 3 or so years.

Rosters are a very fluid thing and Hartnell isn't a part of our long term core.

 

[Jackets16]

Which trade is a that again again? The trade for saad? the Wiz trade?Hartnell for Umberger? I understand that the fashionable thing is to bash Jarmo but even his bad trades aren't that bad. He got gaborik for spare parts as an experiment, and dumped him for slightly less value when it was clear the experiment didn't work and we weren't going to pay him. Johansen for Jones is pretty equal value (and Jones is more fun to watch, IMO). The biggest failure is the Clarkson trade, which was a reasonable gamble IMO.

Is Jarmo the best GM ever? Heck no. However he drafts and trades above average. His failing is his cap and real dollar management. Something that a Hartnell trade is an attempt to correct.

Some fans just refuse to let facts get in the way of their complaining. It's become pointless to even post/reply to so many on this board, because all they do is complain.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

Which trade is a that again again?

I think he was referring to Gaborik's trade. Obviously. Who became play-offs MVP playing for LA when he could play for the Jackets against the Pens.

 

[Jackets Fan]

Well that would still a + in my book. We gave up Umberger, for Hartnell. And by trading Hartnell for a pick we gain what 4.5M for the 3 years?

That's called unloading bad contracts. Although Hartnells contract isn't bad(yet), it could look atrocious if he dips below 35-40 pts a season

I agree completely. I've really liked Hartnell since his very first game with the CBJ. He's a consistent 50-55 point guy, a good veteran leader, and always sticks up for his teammates.

If he starts to decline to, say, under 40-45 points ( and becomes a bad contract as you alluded to ) then yeah trade him and get something for him.
I get that he is starting to get up there age wise, but I think he's still got a good 2-3 years of pretty good production in him, based on what we've seen for going on two seasons. I mean the dude is tied for 2nd on our team in goals...

 

[Jackets16]

I completely disagree. The fact he is playing well is why you trade him. Sell high. He's not a part of the future, so keeping him makes no sense. You are just spending more money and likely lowering what you will get in return when you eventually trade him.

 

[EspenK]

I completely disagree. The fact he is playing well is why you trade him. Sell high. He's not a part of the future, so keeping him makes no sense. You are just spending more money and likely lowering what you will get in return when you eventually trade him.

For the very reason you are suggesting trading him is why a lot of teams won't want him. That's what makes this a tough trade. He is playing well so on the face of it should bring a good return but factor in his age and contract and cap concerns of a lot of teams are going to shy away unless we take an equally dicey deal back. The fact that the cap is probably not going to go up as much as Bettman projected adds to the problem.

Ideally I think I agree we should trade him especially if it just for picks and prospects with nothing retained. Not sure that is possible.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Hartnell would be a very attractive piece for Florida to pick up towards the deadline, especially if they miss out on acquiring Ladd. What would be an adequate return for Hartnell from FLA? A first + a prospect? Not too familiar with what they have in their system.

 

[CBJx614]

I completely disagree. The fact he is playing well is why you trade him. Sell high. He's not a part of the future, so keeping him makes no sense. You are just spending more money and likely lowering what you will get in return when you eventually trade him.

This was my point. Get a first out of him while you still can.(if you can) you're clearing cap space and adding to the future of the team.

For the very reason you are suggesting trading him is why a lot of teams won't want him. That's what makes this a tough trade. He is playing well so on the face of it should bring a good return but factor in his age and contract and cap concerns of a lot of teams are going to shy away unless we take an equally dicey deal back. The fact that the cap is probably not going to go up as much as Bettman projected adds to the problem.

Ideally I think I agree we should trade him especially if it just for picks and prospects with nothing retained. Not sure that is possible.

He's gotta go to a youngish playoff team with some cap space I would think. I mean I think he would help just about any line in the nhl

 

[Jackets16]

I was disagreeing with Jackets Fan.

 

[EspenK]

Hartnell would be a very attractive piece for Florida to pick up towards the deadline, especially if they miss out on acquiring Ladd. What would be an adequate return for Hartnell from FLA? A first + a prospect? Not too familiar with what they have in their system.

I think you may be on to something here. Fallon likes to mix vets and youth and has trouble with hitting the cap floor. Marc Savard only has 1 year left on his deal after this year and Campbell, Jagr and Willie Mitchell and Shawn Thorton are all free agents. Lots of space for them to absorb Hartnell's cap. Maybe Tyutin would be attractive to them if Hartnell's not?

 

[JacketsDavid]

For the very reason you are suggesting trading him is why a lot of teams won't want him. That's what makes this a tough trade. He is playing well so on the face of it should bring a good return but factor in his age and contract and cap concerns of a lot of teams are going to shy away unless we take an equally dicey deal back. The fact that the cap is probably not going to go up as much as Bettman projected adds to the problem.

Ideally I think I agree we should trade him especially if it just for picks and prospects with nothing retained. Not sure that is possible.

You'll likely get the biggest return if you take something back - but I agree if we can get a 1st round pick and mid-level prospect straight up I'd do it.

But who knows crazy things happen - if Hartnell is coveted by several teams maybe he gets us a big return, and if no one is biting maybe we're best to hold him until off-season or next year.

But in my mind he's likely gone - assuming we can get a decent return.

 

[EspenK]

You'll likely get the biggest return if you take something back - but I agree if we can get a 1st round pick and mid-level prospect straight up I'd do it.

But who knows crazy things happen - if Hartnell is coveted by several teams maybe he gets us a big return, and if no one is biting maybe we're best to hold him until off-season or next year.

But in my mind he's likely gone - assuming we can get a decent return.

I'd prefer to wait till after the draft lottery. Top 3 pick I think we could take less than if we deal him at the deadline. Higher pick and it puts more things into consideration.

 

[Xoggz22]

Phoenix is going to need help,with the floor next year...

 

[georgiabluejacket]

I'd prefer to wait till after the draft lottery. Top 3 pick I think we could take less than if we deal him at the deadline. Higher pick and it puts more things into consideration.

I'd love if we could get one of the tweener teams 1st for him. Someone like Pit, Min or Mtl. Hopefully they'll crap out giving us a chance at a lottery win or even someone like Max Jones in the middle of the teens.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I'd love if we could get one of the tweener teams 1st for him. Someone like Pit, Min or Mtl. Hopefully they'll crap out giving us a chance at a lottery win or even someone like Max Jones in the middle of the teens.

Pitt already traded their 1st to Toronto. Minnesota won't give up a 1st for another expensive winger. Montreal needs size and grit but with their free fall I doubt they're considering moving any picks.

 

[NotWendell]

Pitt already traded their 1st to Toronto. Minnesota won't give up a 1st for another expensive winger. Montreal needs size and grit but with their free fall I doubt they're considering moving any picks.

They're still in the playoff hunt though and they're Montreal, not Columbus. It's hard to imagine Hartnell in a Habs sweater, but I wouldn't disqualify the org from doing it.

 

[db2011]

I kind of like having Hartnell around. Maybe next trade deadline

 

[Fred Glover]

Phoenix is going to need help,with the floor next year...

Maybe they take Clarkson