Rumor: St Louis and Columbus Discuss Hartnell.(e4)

[Jackets16]

I was thinking our first for Drai, but I could see Murray/Werenski for Drai+, and then use our pick to grab Laine. It's not the best scenario, but it does balance the team pretty well.

Saad-Wennberg-Atkinson (may be traded if we get Laine)
Jenner-Drai-Laine
Rychel-Dubi-Foligno/Bjorkstrand?

Murray/Werenski-Jones
???-Johnson

Actually this does raise an interesting question of who likely goes if we draft a wing. Even after a hartnell trade we are deep at wing. With who we already have on the roster and who is coming adding a wing (particularly a right wing) really might induce another trade, be that Atkinson or prospects.

There is no way I would trade one of our top 3 young defensemen.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

There is no way I would trade one of our top 3 young defensemen.

Agreed. That is a building block to expand upon, not use as trade fodder.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

Agreed. That is a building block to expand upon, not use as trade fodder.

Thirded.

 

[blahblah]

Agreed. That is a building block to expand upon, not use as trade fodder.

I wouldn't close the door on it; I would wait until after the draft lottery to take a look at where we are.

If you do pick #1 overall, Draisaitl becomes less attractive. If you're pick where a D is your guy, Draisaitl becomes more attractive.

I like where we are, center wise, but Draisaitl (outside of McDavid) is the most attractive player I've seen from their high first round picks. He's the only forward I'd be looking at on that team. Hall or McDavid are great, but they are probably the most punitive in an attempt to acquire. I wouldn't even look at Nuge.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I wouldn't close the door on it; I would wait until after the draft lottery to take a look at where we are.

If you do pick #1 overall, Draisaitl becomes less attractive. If you're pick where a D is your guy, Draisaitl becomes more attractive.

I like where we are, center wise, but Draisaitl (outside of McDavid) is the most attractive player I've seen from their high first round picks. He's the only forward I'd be looking at on that team. Hall or McDavid are great, but they are probably the most punitive in an attempt to acquire. I wouldn't even look at Nuge.

I think that also depends on if they make a trade to acquire a more seasoned defenseman as well. I think the asking price for Draisaitl might be pretty high. I feel like they would rather trade RNH

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

I definitely would not trade Murray under really any circumstances. He's as untouchable as Jones imo, the two of them are the foundation for our defense going forward.

Now, if we fall and are picking between #4 and #6, then I may look at a deal around Werenski for Draisaitl. I don't know much about Jakob Chychrun, but he is who I would take in this case if we were to miss out on Matthews or one of the Finns.

 

[EspenK]

There is no way I would trade one of our top 3 young defensemen.

Agreed. That is a building block to expand upon, not use as trade fodder.

Thirded.

I'm with blah on this although I'm not as happy as him with our current C line-up.

I think the quoted pov's are indicative of not looking at the whole picture.

Werenski is a heralded prospect who if he were not ours no one would trade for. Draisatl is currently putting up .9 pts per game in the NHL. Why wouldn't you at least consider that trade? I wouldn't trade Murray or Jones for him but Werenski sure.

yes, I know you build from the goal out but people are also always saying you can't win without a #1 center.

We have a potential top 2 pairing for a long time to come. Maybe Wennberg is our 1C of the future but I would feel better about one of him and Draisatl becoming a true 1C.

Throw in one of the Finns at forward and damn that would be a great young F corps.

If we win the lottery this is all irrelevant and we draft Matthews and keep Werenski.

In either scenario trading Hartnell has little to no impact on the above.

 

[EDM]

Oh, ok. I was wondering what all of this talk had to do with Hartnell.

 

[major major]

What is Murray/Werenski?

One of these guys is a top pair d-man, one of them might become a top pair d-man someday. There's no comparison in terms of trade value or value to the team.

There is no way I would trade one of our top 3 young defensemen.

Who is the third? If I didn't hang out here, I honestly wouldn't know. Jack Johnson? Werenski could be Jack Johnson someday, perhaps even a #2, and yes, I agree, he has a small shot at being a star. That makes him pretty valuable as far as things go but not in an RNH discussion, and nowhere near a Draisaitl.

 

[blahblah]

I think that also depends on if they make a trade to acquire a more seasoned defenseman as well. I think the asking price for Draisaitl might be pretty high. I feel like they would rather trade RNH

Of course they would; but what's the cost if they have the #1 overall pick? They might be looking at moving both players.

Honestly, Nuge is overpriced and overrated. Maybe he has another level; but I haven't seen a hint of it.

As far as EspenK's comment on our C situation; I look at Jenner, Wennberg, and Karlsson. I see depth and I see offensive upside. Does that mean I wouldn't look at an upgrade? Of course not. However, I'm not nearly as desperate as some around here. If we go with this group of centers going into next season, I'm ok with it.

Back to Hartnell, I said my peace on it. There isn't an all encompassing trade/roster thought thread, so not surprised this goes a little of course. If there are further updates it will snap back in place.

The bad thread is going to be the annual deadline thread. It will become "The thread filled with pages of fantasy hopes and dream with no hope of becoming a reality thread". One in twenty posts will actually be a valid rumor.

 

[blahblah]

Who is the third? If I didn't hang out here, I honestly wouldn't know. Jack Johnson? Werenski could be Jack Johnson someday, perhaps even a #2, and yes, I agree, he has a small shot at being a star. That makes him pretty valuable as far as things go but not in an RNH discussion, and nowhere near a Draisaitl.

I wouldn't be difficult; his assumption is that those are the top 3 in the organizational depth chart. He's probably right.

I think you are doing a disservice by projecting upside. Neither you or I are qualified to judge his peak. I've seen scouting reports that suggest he could very well become a #1. This publication seems to think so and it's not even close to the only one.

 

[major major]

I wouldn't be difficult; his assumption is that those are the top 3 in the organizational depth chart. He's probably right.

I think you are doing a disservice by projecting upside. Neither you or I are qualified to judge his peak. I've seen scouting reports that suggest he could very well become a #1. This publication seems to think so and it's not even close to the only one.

I just said Werenski could become a star.

This publication? You mean the one that just last month wrote that our goaltender prospects are weak outside of Dansk? You and I both are better qualified to judge his upside than this publication.

I think folks are getting ahead of themselves. He has a lot to learn and there have been plenty of young d-men over the years go off track in their development. Count your chickens when they hatch.

As a useful heuristic, ask yourself who he has passed from his draft class. Zacha? I don't even know if that's the case. Maybe he is still about the 8th best player from his draft class. And no fool would trade a young #1C like Draisaitl for a #8 pick, and probably not even a marginal #1C like RNH. Maybe RNH if Edmonton had some sort of pressing need for 18 year old LHD, which they certainly don't.

 

[blahblah]

Who is the third? If I didn't hang out here, I honestly wouldn't know. Jack Johnson? Werenski could be Jack Johnson someday, perhaps even a #2, and yes, I agree, he has a small shot at being a star.

I just said Werenski could become a star.

Don't insult us. You are, intentionally, downplaying him with back handed compliments. You continue to do it with your estimation of where he ranks with the most recent draft class. That will take years to decide and it could end up being subjective anyway. The difference between 2 and 10 could be negligible and they could all be outstanding players or they could all be pathetically average.

I knew you would latch on to it when I said "this publication"; I also said it's not even close the the only one.

Keep up with your ramblings on any deal. I never discussed what it would take to get him; I only stated that I wouldn't dismiss moving Murray or Werenski if that's the major piece needed to acquire him. Things change for franchises if you need D help and you have Mathews and McDavid with a new contract for Draisaitl coming up. Go argue with someone that said that's all it would take; I don't have the time or patience for it.

 

[major major]

Don't insult us. You are, intentionally, downplaying him with back handed compliments.

If my honest evaluation of Werenski comes off to you as a series of back handed compliments, so be it. We just judge the player differently.

\You continue to do it with your estimation of where he ranks with the most recent draft class. That will take years to decide and it could end up being subjective anyway. The difference between 2 and 10 could be negligible and they could all be outstanding players or they could all be pathetically average.
\

I can't remember if you were one of the folks drooling over Werenski or not, but I see this line as a major concession from that view. Very accurate. Folks should take heed.

Keep up with your ramblings on any deal. I never discussed what it would take to get him; I only stated that I wouldn't dismiss moving Murray or Werenski if that's the major piece needed to acquire him. Things change for franchises if you need D help and you have Mathews and McDavid with a new contract for Draisaitl coming up. Go argue with someone that said that's all it would take; I don't have the time or patience for it.

I was arguing with people who seemed to be saying that's all it would take, and just now you jumped in. I don't know why you're jumping in other people's conversations if you don't have the patience for it.

 

[EDM]

I can't even figure what this argument is about.

 

[EspenK]

I can't even figure what this argument is about.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I can't even figure what this argument is about.

I don't think people know how to react to having multiple good defensemen on the team

 

[CBJSlash]

I don't think people know how to react to having multiple good defensemen on the team

Counting chicken embryos?

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Counting chicken embryos?

Thank you for keeping us grounded and rooted in reality

 

[blahblah]

If my honest evaluation of Werenski comes off to you as a series of back handed compliments, so be it. We just judge the player differently.

I can't remember if you were one of the folks drooling over Werenski or not, but I see this line as a major concession from that view. Very accurate. Folks should take heed.

Your view of him is obvious, that is why I called them back handed compliments. Spare us the small concession. You aren't fooling anyone. It's comical in that I didn't judge the player, I only told you not to and that people that are actually qualified to judge him don't agree with you. It is very possible they could be wrong, but it's more likely that you are or, at least, they are closer to being accurate,

I was arguing with people who seemed to be saying that's all it would take, and just now you jumped in. I don't know why you're jumping in other people's conversations if you don't have the patience for it.

You started rambling on about it to me, in a quote; thus I told you to go back to them. I wasn't the appropriate target and you're trying to turn it around again. Look back, you responded to my post about your evaluation of him with some trade value stuff at the end. That was you, not me.

For all this nonsense you are posting you failed to notice that I'm not saying don't trade him if part of the deal gets Draisaitl. I'm not even saying I you are wrong about his his upside, I'm only saying you have no idea what it is (and neither do I). Honestly, I'm not even sure you have any idea what you are agruing with me about. That is what I don't have patience for.

Oh and I clearly jumped in for more than that. You even have that wrong.

 

[blahblah]

I can't even figure what this argument is about.

You and me both.

 

[major major]

I don't see my view on Werenski diverging from scouting so much as from folks on this board.

When I say I prefer Provorov, well so does most everyone outside of Columbus.

When I say Werenski could end up like a Jack Johnson type of player, I'm hardly the only one.

We all agree he could be truly great too, but I take that "could" rather seriously.

I'm sure I put some backhanded compliments in there somewhere. Evidently I don't know how to avoid it. It's just my honest evaluation.

 

[Jackets16]

I wouldn't close the door on it; I would wait until after the draft lottery to take a look at where we are.

If you do pick #1 overall, Draisaitl becomes less attractive. If you're pick where a D is your guy, Draisaitl becomes more attractive.

I like where we are, center wise, but Draisaitl (outside of McDavid) is the most attractive player I've seen from their high first round picks. He's the only forward I'd be looking at on that team. Hall or McDavid are great, but they are probably the most punitive in an attempt to acquire. I wouldn't even look at Nuge.

I would close it and lock it with 1,000 locks. There is NO defenseman in this draft I would take over any of our "big 3". We potentially have a good, young defense for the first time in our history. Why would you want to trade one of them away?

 

[Jackets16]

What is Murray/Werenski?

One of these guys is a top pair d-man, one of them might become a top pair d-man someday. There's no comparison in terms of trade value or value to the team.



Who is the third? If I didn't hang out here, I honestly wouldn't know. Jack Johnson? Werenski could be Jack Johnson someday, perhaps even a #2, and yes, I agree, he has a small shot at being a star. That makes him pretty valuable as far as things go but not in an RNH discussion, and nowhere near a Draisaitl.

Agree to disagree. There is NO WAY I am trading a young defenseman for a forward. NONE!

 

[Viqsi]

I don't see my view on Werenski diverging from scouting so much as from folks on this board.

When I say I prefer Provorov, well so does most everyone outside of Columbus.

...including JK, who had him as being about at the same level as Hanifin.

When I say Werenski could end up like a Jack Johnson type of player, I'm hardly the only one.

We all agree he could be truly great too, but I take that "could" rather seriously.

The way you presented these made it seem like you consider a JJ-like outcome to be much more likely.