Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training V1.0 - The Jay Bruce almost became a Blue Jay Edition

[The Nemesis]

I knew somebody was going to say it was his fault...not even going to bother responding. Good job at wasting your time writing all that. Literally read the first sentence and...yeah forget it

So you don't even read the argument, but feel confident in dismissing it. Spectacular debate procedure you've got going on there. And going to the trouble of editing it after the fact to add the last snarky comment.

yes he took security over getting like 25 million..what's the issue here. It's still a discount in a way. He could've taken the Jays to the bank..so what's the difference now? He gave them a discount then and isn't doing it again. I don't blame him at all.

The Jays got a discount, but Jose didn't give them one. And that's the basis on which he shouldn't be able to leverage that into a point in his favor about not negotiating with them this time around. Because that last contract was all risk vs reward from both parties, it was not Bautista intentionally taking a pay cut to save the team some cash.

I also said, if you had bothered to read my last post instead of just trying to play off the smartass dismissal, that I don't blame him one bit for trying to get as much as he can right now. He wants to ask for the most he can, good on him. My problems were entirely contained to a) the fact that he refuses to negotiate at all, which is a gigantic dick move and b) that he played revisionist historian to make it sound like the Jays "owe" him whatever he wants because his last contract was so favorable to them, which is a ridiculous assertion on at least 3 levels.

Of course, you may not even bother reading all of this too, so I guess what's the point.

 

[Revolt]

The Reds better be eating a lot of that contract, otherwise I'm going to be irked that the Jays weren't willing to spend on an upper rotation arm this off-season, but are willing to add an unnecessary piece to the offense.

This. Exactly what i was thinking.

 

[theaub]

The Reds better be eating a lot of that contract, otherwise I'm going to be irked that the Jays weren't willing to spend on an upper rotation arm this off-season, but are willing to add an unnecessary piece to the offense.

That's really the only question mark of this trade IMO

If the Jays aren't trading a prospect and are just taking on the salary it goes against all the 'waah Rogers is cheap' stuff but certainly asks the question of why this

 

[oilers89]

Personally I don't mind the trade. Left handed power bat. This move likely won't determine whether we make playoffs or not. Saunders has also only played 88 games the last two years. So it's not like we are sure what we would get from him this year.

 

[topched]

he's been underpaid for what he's brought to the table sure, but that was not a favour he did for the Jays. That was a give and take back when the deal went down, Jays gave him security he wouldn't have gotten if his 1 good year was an aboration, Jose gave the Jays a pretty cheap contract if his production was legit. They both could have gambled but they came to a fair compromise at the time.

It wasn't a favour or a discount at time of signing, and he wouldn't be getting more than he's worth from us now. If he's asking for a fair contract he would get on the market all the power to him, if he think we'll do him a favour because he believes he done us one, then get to stepping Jose.

I don't think it has anything to do with "Hometown", Jose doesn't need to give anyone a discount. He's been underpaid the last 5 years relative to how good he's been. He deserves to max out his value on what will probably be his last contract.

I hope it's with the Jays.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

The Reds better be eating a lot of that contract, otherwise I'm going to be irked that the Jays weren't willing to spend on an upper rotation arm this off-season, but are willing to add an unnecessary piece to the offense.

Agreed.

Doesn't make sense..

 

[p.l.f.]

I wont miss saunders

 

[The Nemesis]

fwiw, there's a couple quotes going around where Jose says he completely agrees that at the time the contract was FMV, so I do think the 'hometown discount' quote is a bit misconstrued

I'd be willing to believe that more if it wasn't that we saw the quote right out of his mouth in the whole context of that discussion.

Someone asked if he'd give a hometown discount and he said, almost word for word "I don't believe in hometown discounts. I already gave them one on my last contract."

It's not like it was a one line soundbyte on McCown's show or a big block quote on a Toronto Star article.

 

[Cor]

Teams are reviewing medicals, but looks like it will be official within the next couple hours.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Big lefty bat and a healthy left fielder. Willing to eat crow if he's crappy but I'm going to be optimistic for now.

 

[TootooTrain]

I just hate this cloud, man. We had such a good run, with lots of good feelings, to end last season. But now all of this optimism and high are being squashed. $$$ ruins things.

It's just business. Everyone knew Jose and EE were going to be up at the end of the year.

As soon as games start nobody will give a hoot.

 

[p.l.f.]

hell I'll take bruce over saunders anyday

 

[BertCorbeau]

Atkins hedging his bets that Bruce can rebound under his old hitting coach, and also potentially replacing EE and/or Bautista as a mid-order bat ... Only thing I can think of.

I mean the Jays could use a left handed power bat .. But the elite right handed hitters compensate for that.

I hate high-K power hitters .. They are so aggravating to cheer for. Hopefully he can fix that but I'm on optimistic

 

[Cor]

I really hope the Reds are covering most, if not all of the price difference.

 

[cwulf]

In the article that I read with Bautista, his quotes were essentially - and I'm paraphrasing here - "At the time of the deal, it was fair market value, so I'm not complaining. I just happened to outperform the contract", and "Now I'm just looking to get paid for what I'm worth now".

 

[p.l.f.]

12.5 per for 2 more yrs?
hmm...

 

[Dr.Funk]

hell I'll take bruce over saunders anyday

For an extra 10 million? No Thanks!

 

[Canada4Gold]

hell I'll take bruce over saunders anyday

maybe you haven't gotten an update on Bruce in the last 2 years, he's been pretty awful.

It only makes sense if the Jays don't trust Saunders knee and the Red are covering a heavy portion of that salary.

Hell, they're both lefty hitters, so even that isn't really a reason.

 

[TootooTrain]

In the article that I read with Bautista, his quotes were essentially - and I'm paraphrasing here - "At the time of the deal, it was fair market value, so I'm not complaining. I just happened to outperform the contract", and "Now I'm just looking to get paid for what I'm worth now".

It's the annual Jose-says-some-real-stuff-and-people-pick-the-carcass-for-click-bait-athon.

 

[The Nemesis]

he's been underpaid for what he's brought to the table sure, but that was not a favour he did for the Jays. That was a give and take back when the deal went down, Jays gave him security he wouldn't have gotten if his 1 good year was an aboration, Jose gave the Jays a pretty cheap contract if his production was legit. They both could have gambled but they came to a fair compromise at the time.

It wasn't a favour or a discount at time of signing, and he wouldn't be getting more than he's worth from us now. If he's asking for a fair contract he would get on the market all the power to him, if he think we'll do him a favour because he believes he done us one, then get to stepping Jose.

This is basically what I'm getting at. I have no problem with fair value. My problem is entirely that his unwillingness to negotiate combined with his hometown discount comment in that scrum seem to indicate that he figures his negotiation should just be him sliding a piece of paper across the desk, and Shapiro/Atkins saying "yeah, sure. Whatever you want." without a second glance.

 

[rojac]

I'd be willing to believe that more if it wasn't that we saw the quote right out of his mouth in the whole context of that discussion.

Someone asked if he'd give a hometown discount and he said, almost word for word "I don't believe in hometown discounts. I already gave them one on my last contract."

It's not like it was a one line soundbyte on McCown's show or a big block quote on a Toronto Star article.

So, he may have simply misspoke slightly. In the end, it doesn't really matter.

 

[rojac]

This is basically what I'm getting at. I have no problem with fair value. My problem is entirely that his unwillingness to negotiate combined with his hometown discount comment in that scrum seem to indicate that he figures his negotiation should just be him sliding a piece of paper across the desk, and Shapiro/Atkins saying "yeah, sure. Whatever you want." without a second glance.

It's a perfectly legitimate approach.

 

[The Nemesis]

In the article that I read with Bautista, his quotes were essentially - and I'm paraphrasing here - "At the time of the deal, it was fair market value, so I'm not complaining. I just happened to outperform the contract", and "Now I'm just looking to get paid for what I'm worth now".

Fair enough. Problem becomes if he wants to get paid in 3 or 4 years for what he's worth now.

 

[Eyedea]

I actually think Bruce can bounce back here.

 

[TF97]

For those fans who are unfamiliar with Bruce, I will do my best to give you a scouting report using gifs...

Yeah, that's basically Jay Bruce