Sportsnet - Team Preview 2015-16: Winnipeg Jets

[Mortimer Snerd]

No offer made, Im saying discussion had between agent and Chevy and all we only know one side of what Stemp said about the youth movement. I think youth movement is on third line and am hopeful that they still sign a FA if Armia is not on the fourth to start the year. All Im saying is we don't know if anything else said in those convos turned Stemp away as well. What if Chevy said, here is league min cause you will be fighting for fourth line time cause we have three rookies ahead of you for example, we have no idea is all im saying.

We can make up unlimited 'what ifs'. We can keep doing that with everything that comes up here, everything that happens or doesn't happen. Or we can take what we know and fill in the blanks with the simplest possibilities which are usually the most likely.

You have no clue who his agent is currently taking with, or who is interested in him, could be zero or 4 teams, we don't know. Many FA are waiting for chance, doesn't mean teams won't be interested in their services. We shall wait and see.

Again true but at this late stage of the game these guys are most likely ready to accept any offer they get. If they have had multiple offers they pick the best one and sign. A month ago already.

Im getting ripped for assuming many things, but we also assume that Chevy has not approached any of these guys, we don't know that. Everyone thinks its so easy on here, go get Glencross, sign Tlusty. It's not that easy is all Im saying what if Chevy approached an agent and agent said no thanks, we will take our chances and be patient. We do not know what Chevy has done behind closed doors, and it's just not that easy to get a guy is all Im saying. Money, family, term, city, etc, many factors play into it. We all assume those guys would say yes instantly.

Well it is logical to assume that if he approached one and was turned down, or made to wait for a decision he would have moved on to the next one. Is it not? These players are not getting star treatment in the negotiating process. So if Chevy wanted Stemp and Stemp said he wanted to try for something better Chevy would have very quickly moved on to Boyes, or Glencross or Tlusty. Chevy is not going to risk losing out on what he had decided he needed because he waited for Stemp. If Chevy wants one of these players but has only made offers so low that none will accept then Chevy is being a fool, failing to get what he has decided he needs for a small amount of $$$. Either that or he has decided he doesn't need them. If he has made that decision he isn't offering them anything. From all the evidence we can see it appears that he hasn't made any offers.

 

[BigZ65]

The big assumption here is basically that Stempniak is an idiot. He's played his way into bigger roles in nearly all of his stops. Here's my assumption: he knows that NHL coaches prefer and rely on veterans. The fact his NHL career has lasted this long is proof of that. I don't believe he'd be scared to sign with a team like the Jets, because there are holes in our lineup that are being plugged by rookies who are more likely to falter and can be easily sent to the minors. Here's my next assumption: the Jets didn't make Stempniak an offer. And my next assumption: Matt Halischuk will play at least half of the Jets games.

I'd rather have Stempniak and I'm not sure why the Jets are so averse to having reasonable depth.

 

[JetsFan815]

This plug will sit in the box. Stemp won't.

So Chevy gave someone a 2 year one-way contract just so they can sit in the box? That's stupid. That role can easily be filled by Halischuck and his 2-way deal

 

[Hollywood3]

Any player unsigned as of today would jump at any contract offered to him. It is getting to the point where the Swiss league may be the only option.

I was surprised that the Jets signed Halischuk instead of Stempniak. Perhaps Halischuk is slated for the Moose.

As it stands, I see the Jets making a deadline trade for a Stempniak-like player at the cost of a couple of draft choices. Why not save the picks and sign him now?

 

[puck stoppa]

So Chevy gave someone a 2 year one-way contract just so they can sit in the box? That's stupid. That role can easily be filled by Halischuck and his 2-way deal

Peluso is cheap, will sit in press box until inserted for toughnes and can fight, Mau and Chevy like that I guess. Hali can't fight. How much cheaper is Hali's NHL contract compared to Peluso if at all? Don't get me wrong I hate Peluso.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Any player unsigned as of today would jump at any contract offered to him. It is getting to the point where the Swiss league may be the only option.

I was surprised that the Jets signed Halischuk instead of Stempniak. Perhaps Halischuk is slated for the Moose.

As it stands, I see the Jets making a deadline trade for a Stempniak-like player at the cost of a couple of draft choices. Why not save the picks and sign him now?

Seems obvious doesn't it. So what are we missing here?

Personally I am almost certain that Hali, Cormier, Fraser and MacWilliam are destined for the Moose. But that still doesn't explain not signing one of the good, veteran FAs who are still without contracts. Surely one of them would be willing to accept a 4th line role with the Jets. So the only explanation I can see is that Chevy has made a firm decision to go with the kids. If one falters he will bring in another. If he does that I have no problem with it even if it leads to a step back. I only see a problem if Peluso, Halischuk, Fraser or Cormier play significant time with the Jets. I don't want to see them even if we have a lot of injuries.

 

[puck stoppa]

Seems obvious doesn't it. So what are we missing here?

Personally I am almost certain that Hali, Cormier, Fraser and MacWilliam are destined for the Moose. But that still doesn't explain not signing one of the good, veteran FAs who are still without contracts. Surely one of them would be willing to accept a 4th line role with the Jets. So the only explanation I can see is that Chevy has made a firm decision to go with the kids. If one falters he will bring in another. If he does that I have no problem with it even if it leads to a step back. I only see a problem if Peluso, Halischuk, Fraser or Cormier play significant time with the Jets. I don't want to see them even if we have a lot of injuries.

Armia, Petan and Ehlers are obvious choices to stick or being recalled. But the two guys that we don't seem to talk about much is Lipon and Kosmo, Ill be watching those two all camp long, maybe they are high on those two as well, who knows.

 

[ATLbound]

So what we know is:

Little, Wheeler, Ladd, Scheifele, Perreault, Burmistrov, Stafford, Lowry, Thorburn- Will have spots in lineup.

Peluso, Hali, Fraser, Cormier, Copp, Ehlers, Petan, Armia- Fighting for spots..

And some guys like Kosmo, Lipon, Lemieux with outside shots.

Basically the way I see it is Ehlers, Petan, Armia are fighting for the top 9 spot, the best one should win the job. A lot of people think the best and most ready is Ehlers, and will the Jets give the spot to Ehlers to start at least regardless of his camp showing?? That will mean Petan, Armia likely back to play top 6 for the Moose and be the first guys for call-ups for top 9 injuries.

4th line: Thorburn is a lock. Center, and a winger spot open. 4C is Copps to lose I think everyone believes. His only real competition is Cormier. I think for Cormier to take that spot he will need to outplay Copp by a fair margin, which is doubtful of happening. The loser of that battle to the Moose. That will leave likely, Peluso, Halischuk, Fraser fighting for the last 4th line spot and the 13th forward. Looks like we will be going 13 forwards, 8 D to start. So I am going to guess Halischuk takes the 4th line spot, and Peluso to the press box, Fraser to the moose.


Ladd- Little- Stafford
Perreault- Scheifele- Wheeler
Ehlers/ Petan/ Armia- Lowry- Burmistrov
Hali- Copp/Cormier- Thorburn
Peluso

 

[ATLbound]

And for Defence,

Byfuglien, Enstrom, Myers, Trouba- top 4 Locks

Stuart- Bottom pair lock

That means, 1 top 6 spot open, then a 7/8 spot's

Chairot, Harrison, Pardy, Postma, Morrissey fighting for 3 jobs.

Only way Morrissey makes the team is if he earns a top 6 spot. Meaning he just has to outplay Chairot, Harrison, Pardy and Postma in camp to earn a top 6 spot. So essentially IMO it is between him and Chairot for the last lineup spot. I am fine with either, was very happy with Chairot and if he can build on that great.

That means, if Chairot takes the 6 spot and Morrissey is not quite ready... Pardy, Harrison, Postma will be fighting for 2 press box spots. Who do you think of those 3 on 1 way's goes to the Moose. Postma is the only one I can see another team taking a chance on. Maybe its time to let him go.

If Morrissey has a great camp we have a huge log jam, that will push Chairot to the 7th spot, then we have Pardy, Harrison, Postma fighting for 1 spot.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Armia, Petan and Ehlers are obvious choices to stick or being recalled. But the two guys that we don't seem to talk about much is Lipon and Kosmo, Ill be watching those two all camp long, maybe they are high on those two as well, who knows.

More Kosmo I think than Lipon. He slipped a little last year and needs to rebound to get back in the picture. But both of them may fit into the same category as Copp. That is good prospects but with limited ceilings ideally suited to the 4th line. That could present them with an opening that would be denied to Petan and Armia who are still slated for better things.

I think a lot of people have probably had that thought. It just doesn't get mentioned much in all the noise about higher rated prospects. It might seem a little odd to suggest that Kosmo or Lipon could make the Jets when Petan or Armia can't. They may not be competing for the same spots though.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

It is just how TNSE roll, they like their head kickers, over value Thor as a hockey player (See how much time he spent on the 3rd line last season), and have no issues rolling 3 lines for 55 minutes a game.

Most orgs have a blind spots and this is ours IMO.

yeah, AV is a top 5 coach in the league and consistently runs Tanner Glass out there.

I just don't get it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So what we know is:

Little, Wheeler, Ladd, Scheifele, Perreault, Burmistrov, Stafford, Lowry, Thorburn- Will have spots in lineup.

Peluso, Hali, Fraser, Cormier, Copp, Ehlers, Petan, Armia- Fighting for spots..

And some guys like Kosmo, Lipon, Lemieux with outside shots.

Basically the way I see it is Ehlers, Petan, Armia are fighting for the top 9 spot, the best one should win the job. A lot of people think the best and most ready is Ehlers, and will the Jets give the spot to Ehlers to start at least regardless of his camp showing?? That will mean Petan, Armia likely back to play top 6 for the Moose and be the first guys for call-ups for top 9 injuries.

4th line: Thorburn is a lock. Center, and a winger spot open. 4C is Copps to lose I think everyone believes. His only real competition is Cormier. I think for Cormier to take that spot he will need to outplay Copp by a fair margin, which is doubtful of happening. The loser of that battle to the Moose. That will leave likely, Peluso, Halischuk, Fraser fighting for the last 4th line spot and the 13th forward. Looks like we will be going 13 forwards, 8 D to start. So I am going to guess Halischuk takes the 4th line spot, and Peluso to the press box, Fraser to the moose.


Ladd- Little- Stafford
Perreault- Scheifele- Wheeler
Ehlers/ Petan/ Armia- Lowry- Burmistrov
Hali- Copp/Cormier- Thorburn
Peluso

I don't agree with what you say we know. Peluso has a lock on the 13th spot. Hali, Fraser and Cormier are slated for the Moose.
Petan, Ehlers and Armia are fighting for a top 9 spot with Ehlers probably having the inside track.

Something we don't know is if either Petan or Armia will be given a spot on the 4th line if they don't win the top 9 battle. Kosmo and Lipon may be considered for 1 4th line spot. The other, as you say is Copp's to lose. I think that Lemieux is 2-3 years away from having a shot. He will really have to blow the doors off in TC to be given a chance.

I could be wrong but if we end up with a 4th line of Hali - Cormier - Thor our youth movement will not have much impact.

And for Defence,

Byfuglien, Enstrom, Myers, Trouba- top 4 Locks

Stuart- Bottom pair lock

That means, 1 top 6 spot open, then a 7/8 spot's

Chairot, Harrison, Pardy, Postma, Morrissey fighting for 3 jobs.

Only way Morrissey makes the team is if he earns a top 6 spot. Meaning he just has to outplay Chairot, Harrison, Pardy and Postma in camp to earn a top 6 spot. So essentially IMO it is between him and Chairot for the last lineup spot. I am fine with either, was very happy with Chairot and if he can build on that great.

That means, if Chairot takes the 6 spot and Morrissey is not quite ready... Pardy, Harrison, Postma will be fighting for 2 press box spots. Who do you think of those 3 on 1 way's goes to the Moose. Postma is the only one I can see another team taking a chance on. Maybe its time to let him go.

If Morrissey has a great camp we have a huge log jam, that will push Chairot to the 7th spot, then we have Pardy, Harrison, Postma fighting for 1 spot.

I agree about the top 4, barring any trade and none seem likely.

I keep hoping Stuart is not a lock for the 5th spot but you are probably right there too. That leaves Chiarot and Postma fighting for the last starting job unless Clitsome is healthy. Then he is in that fight too and a likely winner. If Clitsome is out of the picture it should be Postma but I could see Chiarot beating him out. The others should not be in consideration for that spot at all.

It is a little hard to figure Morrissey in this picture. The problem isn't the excess of depth LHD it is the 3 top RHD. If Morrissey makes the team does he prevent a RHD from moving over? If a RHD moves over does he prevent Morrissey from making the team? Or does Morrissey push Stu to the right or the PB?

So we have 2 wildcards, Clitsome and Morrissey. Both Harrison and Pardy can be waived to make room if necessary. With our lack of RHD depth I would not move Postma.

If I had my way Stuart would be traded and that would open things up quite a bit but I have little hope of that.

 

[puck stoppa]

More Kosmo I think than Lipon. He slipped a little last year and needs to rebound to get back in the picture. But both of them may fit into the same category as Copp. That is good prospects but with limited ceilings ideally suited to the 4th line. That could present them with an opening that would be denied to Petan and Armia who are still slated for better things.

I think a lot of people have probably had that thought. It just doesn't get mentioned much in all the noise about higher rated prospects. It might seem a little odd to suggest that Kosmo or Lipon could make the Jets when Petan or Armia can't. They may not be competing for the same spots though.

Yup. And I really feel Kosmo had a similar second half to Lowry when he was in the AHL, came on strong after adjusting to pro game. He can skate, plays with grit and has an NHL release. This guy is under rated a tad.

 

[Hobble]

Maurice doesnt want more talent on the 4th, because that would mean he would have to okay it more.

 

[Channelcat]

And for Defence,

Byfuglien, Enstrom, Myers, Trouba- top 4 Locks

Stuart- Bottom pair lock

That means, 1 top 6 spot open, then a 7/8 spot's

Chairot, Harrison, Pardy, Postma, Morrissey fighting for 3 jobs.

Only way Morrissey makes the team is if he earns a top 6 spot. Meaning he just has to outplay Chairot, Harrison, Pardy and Postma in camp to earn a top 6 spot. So essentiallyt IMO it is between him and Chairot for the last lineup spo. I am fine with either, was very happy with Chairot and if he can build on that great.

That means, if Chairot takes the 6 spot and Morrissey is not quite ready... Pardy, Harrison, Postma will be fighting for 2 press box spots. Who do you think of those 3 on 1 way's goes to the Moose. Postma is the only one I can see another team taking a chance on. Maybe its time to let him go.

If Morrissey has a great camp we have a huge log jam, that will push Chairot to the 7th spot, then we have Pardy, Harrison, Postma fighting for 1 spot.

Chiarot is a lock. Morrissey will have a chance to fight for a spot, but 99% he is with the Moose for the majority of the season.

 

[truck]

Chiarot is a lock. Morrissey will have a chance to fight for a spot, but 99% he is with the Moose for the majority of the season.

Perhaps they will stick with Pardy on the 4th line wing.

He is a better winger than Peluso and he actually contributes to special teams

 

[Bob E]

Any word on Clitsome?

 

[EastRiver]

Perhaps they will stick with Pardy on the 4th line wing.

He is a better winger than Peluso and he actually contributes to special teams

That's a real lose-lose situation. The only thing that would make Pardy look good as a 4th line W is comparing him to Tony P.

 

[sully1410]

Ummmm yup. My comment had nothing to do with what the Jets should or shouldn't do or what they will or won't do. It was about Lawless putting both Thor and Peluso on the 4th line at the same time having written a story about a youth movement. A youth movement that he then indicated was made up of Ehlers in the top 9 and Copp on the 4th line. Stempniak is another whole conversation.

Peluso is not a stopgap until our prospects are ready. He is just a gap. Peluso should be no higher than the 13th F. That is if we carry 8 D. If we carry 7 D he should be the 14th F. Thor and Peluso should never be in the lineup at the same time again. But Lawless put them there. That is what I question. I am not questioning Chevy signing Peluso instead of Stempniak. I am questioning Lawless putting him in the lineup.

Ummmmmmmmm nope. The idea behind not signing Stemp, to me speaks to the idea of youth movement, and allowing prospects and young players to step in and play that role. That is the idea behind developing prospects after all.

Now let's pretend that for whatever reason Armia or Petan or whoever isn't ready for that, then you have Peluso that can somewhat sort of step in.

But I, in no way think that they didn't sign Stemp to make room for Peluso. I think Peluso is a plan B.

And Lawless didn't even say what you are insinuating. He was probably thinking along the same lines as I just was.

 

[truck]

That's a real lose-lose situation. The only thing that would make Pardy look good as a 4th line W is comparing him to Tony P.

It drives me nuts seeing the 4th line play less than 5 minutes of sheltered hockey a night and not factor into special teams. If you are going to shelter them at 5 on 5 you'd hope they bring value elsewhere.

 

[KingBogo]

So Chevy gave someone a 2 year one-way contract just so they can sit in the box? That's stupid. That role can easily be filled by Halischuck and his 2-way deal

I don't see it as stupid. Peluso and Hali will have no where near similar roles on the team. IMO Chevy and Maurice likes that Peluso is one of the top face punchers in the league. Again IMO they have no intention to send him down for fear of losing him. He be around for at least 2 more years and inserted into the lineup when Maurice wants his "skill set" available to him. The cost is close to a NHL minimum contract for the 13/14 guys you will have around anyways. The trade off is 2 years and 1-way. Easy enough to move skill up and down with the amount of waiver exempt prospects we have available.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ummmmmmmmm nope. The idea behind not signing Stemp, to me speaks to the idea of youth movement, and allowing prospects and young players to step in and play that role. That is the idea behind developing prospects after all.

Now let's pretend that for whatever reason Armia or Petan or whoever isn't ready for that, then you have Peluso that can somewhat sort of step in.

But I, in no way think that they didn't sign Stemp to make room for Peluso. I think Peluso is a plan B.

And Lawless didn't even say what you are insinuating. He was probably thinking along the same lines as I just was.

What Lawless did was list a 4th line with both Thor and Peluso on it at the same time. That is my complaint with what Lawless wrote. Period. It is about what he wrote, not about what the Jets did.

I don't know how you can imagine Peluso as a Plan B or C or F for a circumstance where both Petan and Armia manage to be so bad that Peluso is a better option but it is your fantasy. But that is not what lawless wrote.

 

[truck]

What Lawless did was list a 4th line with both Thor and Peluso on it at the same time. That is my complaint with what Lawless wrote. Period. It is about what he wrote, not about what the Jets did.

I don't know how you can imagine Peluso as a Plan B or C or F for a circumstance where both Petan and Armia manage to be so bad that Peluso is a better option but it is your fantasy. But that is not what lawless wrote.

How many players have to make the jump before it is a youth movement.

Two doesn't seem like much, but three would be a quarter of the active forward group on any given night.

Tampa has moved a number of players in over the last three years:
Palat
Johnson
Kucherov
Gudas
Namestnikov
Brown
Panik
Drouin
Paquette

Is three per year a fair measure?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How many players have to make the jump before it is a youth movement.

Two doesn't seem like much, but three would be a quarter of the active forward group on any given night.

Tampa has moved a number of players in over the last three years:
Palat
Johnson
Kucherov
Gudas
Namestnikov
Brown
Panik
Drouin
Paquette

Is three per year a fair measure?

For the '14 season we had 2, Scheif & Trouba. In '15 we had 3, Lowry, Hutch and Chiarot. That was just normal advancement of prospects into the team not a deliberate 'youth movement'. No good players were rejected in order to make room. This year we have 3 potential vacancies. It appears that they were deliberately left available to give prospects the opportunity. That makes it a youth movement more than a specific number does. Then, in Lawless's version one of those opportunity positions goes to Peluso. A position that could have been filled by Stempniak if it was not going to a rookie. Therefore that 'opportunity position' was given to Peluso. Peluso does not qualify as a beneficiary of a 'youth movement'. He is not that young, he is not a rookie and he is certainly not a prospect.

I am not talking about whether or not Peluso should have been signed or how many games he should get into or how many minutes he should get or about the role of goons in the NHL. I am talking about Lawless's article where he wrote about a youth movement and related that to not signing Stempniak and then wrote Peluso's name into one of the spots supposedly reserved for the 'youth movement'. Does that article hold together for you? It doesn't for me. Lawless has a hard time being consistent with himself. He is self-contradictory and that is what annoys me most about his work. That and the sometimes smug tone he contradicts himself with.

 

[EastRiver]

It drives me nuts seeing the 4th line play less than 5 minutes of sheltered hockey a night and not factor into special teams. If you are going to shelter them at 5 on 5 you'd hope they bring value elsewhere.

That's why I keep pushing for an all rookie fourth line.