Sportsnet - Team Preview 2015-16: Winnipeg Jets

[sully1410]

And then in his listed lines we get Ehlers and Copp for rookies with Peluso still in a starting role. So the result is that Stemp is not signed and the spot he might have filled is held by Peluso. Therefore Stemp dropped to give opportunity to Peluso.

Ummm nope. Peluso is a stop gap until our other prospects are ready, ie, Armia or whomever...but the fact is that we are already committed to Peluso, why sign another guy for rookies to beat out. It's easier to sit Peluso then Stempniak.

 

[garret9]

Keep in mind here, that I agree with you and want no part of Peluso and would love to see Stemp on this team. Im trying to rationalize what the Jets are thinking and I think my thoughts aren't far off.

Am I sure Stemp won't sit in the box? What I mean by that is that he wants to wait for a better opportunity. IMO our third line right now is Burmi Lowry Ehlers. If one gets hurt I think Petan or Armia come up to fill that void if they are not on the team. Stemp is blocked by those prospects, and he's not dumb, cause he said it himself, so I conclude he thinks he can get a better chance elsewhere than start on the Jets fourth line.
Would he leave the team? Hell no, but if you're him why not find a better opportunity if it exists. He may circle back here, and I sure hope he does.
He does not know that by signing that he'd ever be in the press box, and IMO he would never get there, but IMO, he may think he can get a better opp elsewhere much like Raymond did, that seemed to have worked out fine for Raymond.

Like I said I want Stemp here and I think PMO would like to have him here too, he figures he's blocked by 3 good prospects for top 9 work. He may find a better opp elsewhere. Can't compare him and Peluso, different wants from both of those guys, Peluso happy to be here, Stemp hoping for more. Hope he's back tho.

I'm not talking about wants though. Yours or mine.

I'm just saying the "going with youth" excuse sucks if the Jets dress 2 of Hali, Thor, Peluso, Cormier, or Fraser on their fourth line .

I just don't see the scenario everyone is painting.

I don't see why the Jets could not get Stempniak for 1-2 years at cheap.

* He admitted that he wanted to come back
* He doesn't have anywhere signing him yet (but could have offers)
* He hasn't cost much historically
* He has played 4th line minutes historically
* One player on the fourth line will likely end up play a good chunk of the season on the third line anyways

I just don't really see it.

Stemp would sign if the Jets gave him an offer, if he wasn't lying about wanting to come back but told they want to go another direction.
He isn't going to sign and say "promise me a top nine spot". He knows he has to earn it. He's had to fight to earn 3rd line mins any season he did get those minutes.

If the Jets have 2 youngin's on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Armia), sure, that's going with youth.
If the Jets have 2 older guys on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Peluso), then they made the wrong decision, IMO.

All IMO, but to me doesn't seem logical.

 

[truck]

Ummm nope. Peluso is a stop gap until our other prospects are ready, ie, Armia or whomever...but the fact is that we are already committed to Peluso, why sign another guy for rookies to beat out. It's easier to sit Peluso then Stempniak.

They committed to Peluso within a month of letting Stemp and others walk.

I don't buy the idea that their hands were tied by the Peluso deal. They decided to keep him and let hockey players walk.

 

[puck stoppa]

Aye, but the 3rd line thing, the idea that Stemp will not play 4th line, the idea that Stemp is the one that said no and the assumed nature of the conversation with Chevy are all creations being used to build a narrative. My point was that using assumptions as evidence doesn't really make sddefinitions.

All we know is that Stemp said the team said 'no.'

Anyways, I don't really have anything else to add to this. I'd rather talk hockey than definitions.

Just like thinking Chevy is not looking to add a vet fourth liner is an assumption. You have no real evidence either. We are here to discuss our thoughts, yours as much as mine are neither right nor wrong .You are assuming as am I, cause we have no clue what Chevy is planning.

 

[truck]

I'm not talking about wants though. Yours or mine.

I'm just saying the "going with youth" excuse sucks if the Jets dress 2 of Hali, Thor, Peluso, Cormier, or Fraser on their fourth line .

I just don't see the scenario everyone is painting.

I don't see why the Jets could not get Stempniak for 1-2 years at cheap.

* He admitted that he wanted to come back
* He doesn't have anywhere signing him yet (but could have offers)
* He hasn't cost much historically
* He has played 4th line minutes historically
* One player on the fourth line will likely end up play a good chunk of the season on the third line anyways

I just don't really see it.

Stemp would sign if the Jets gave him an offer, if he wasn't lying about wanting to come back but told they want to go another direction.
He isn't going to sign and say "promise me a top nine spot". He knows he has to earn it. He's had to fight to earn 3rd line mins any season he did get those minutes.

If the Jets have 2 youngin's on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Armia), sure, that's going with youth.
If the Jets have 2 older guys on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Peluso), then they made the wrong decision, IMO.

All IMO, but to me doesn't seem logical.

All of this!

It is possible that he was lying or misrepresentin what happened, but I don't understand why that would be the go to or why someone would create an elaborate pile of reasoning to support the case that it was a misquote.

 

[truck]

Just like thinking Chevy is not looking to add a vet fourth liner is an assumption. You have no real evidence either. We are here to discuss our thoughts, yours as much as mine are neither right nor wrong .You are assuming as am I, cause we have no clue what Chevy is planning.

The only info we have is from Stempniak. Stempniak said they aren't looking to add a vet 4th line player (himself). Gary Lawless tends to be more plugged in than most - he has said the same.

I don't know that any of this us accurate, but I have no reason to assume it isn't.

 

[puck stoppa]

I'm not talking about wants though. Yours or mine.

I'm just saying the "going with youth" excuse sucks if the Jets dress 2 of Hali, Thor, Peluso, Cormier, or Fraser on their fourth line .

I just don't see the scenario everyone is painting.

I don't see why the Jets could not get Stempniak for 1-2 years at cheap.

* He admitted that he wanted to come back
* He doesn't have anywhere signing him yet (but could have offers)
* He hasn't cost much historically
* He has played 4th line minutes historically
* One player on the fourth line will likely end up play a good chunk of the season on the third line anyways

I just don't really see it.

Stemp would sign if the Jets gave him an offer, if he wasn't lying about wanting to come back but told they want to go another direction.
He isn't going to sign and say "promise me a top nine spot". He knows he has to earn it. He's had to fight to earn 3rd line mins any season he did get those minutes.

If the Jets have 2 youngin's on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Armia), sure, that's going with youth.
If the Jets have 2 older guys on the fourth line (one ex: Thor-Copp-Peluso), then they made the wrong decision, IMO.

All IMO, but to me doesn't seem logical.

If we see peluso instead of armia or vet FA, then I'll be pissed. But I'm hopeful it will be otherwise.

 

[puck stoppa]

The only info we have is from Stempniak. Stempniak said they aren't looking to add a vet 4th line player (himself). Gary Lawless tends to be more plugged in than most - he has said the same.

Okay, finally on computer.
I want to be wrong about all this cause I can't see us starting with Peluso on the fourth line. But if they go in as Lawless wrote, I will be very dissapointed in Chevy and Mau.

 

[Daximus]

If we see peluso instead of armia or vet FA, then I'll be pissed. But I'm hopeful it will be otherwise.

I have a feeling we see Peluso for at least 30 games this coming season. Chevy and Maurice want a heavy weight with heavy hands in the lineup. Thorburn is more of a punching bag than someone who deals more than their dealt like Peluso. I don't agree with it or like it but the enforcer role is not entirely gone yet and people keep forgetting that.

 

[ps241]

They committed to Peluso within a month of letting Stemp and others walk.

I don't buy the idea that their hands were tied by the Peluso deal. They decided to keep him and let hockey players walk.

It is just how TNSE roll, they like their head kickers, over value Thor as a hockey player (See how much time he spent on the 3rd line last season), and have no issues rolling 3 lines for 55 minutes a game.

Most orgs have a blind spots and this is ours IMO.

 

[truck]

Okay, finally on computer.
I want to be wrong about all this cause I can't see us starting with Peluso on the fourth line. But if they go in as Lawless wrote, I will be very dissapointed in Chevy and Mau.

I expect to see Peluso on rhe 4th line for a long chunk of the season. When you sign a guy for two years, you expect him to play. I don't like it, but it really isn't the issue for me.

When I see Peluso and Thor dressing in the same game, or Thor playing on the 3rd line, that is what drives me cray.

 

[Daximus]

It is just how TNSE roll, they like their head kickers, over value Thor as a hockey player (See how much time he spent on the 3rd line last season), and have no issues rolling 3 lines for 55 minutes a game.

Most orgs have a blind spots and this is ours IMO.

Many teams are pushing the NHL in the direction of having better hockey players on their 4th lines rather than enforcers, we just happen to be one of the teams lagging behind.
I don't think fighting will leave hockey anytime soon, but wasting a roster spot on a guy that is there only to fight will eventually go the way of the woolly pretty soon. There's a few GM's and coach's that swear by it but eventually when they realize that all the teams that will be making deep playoff runs have solid 4th lines the change will happen.

 

[puck stoppa]

I expect to see Peluso on rhe 4th line for a long chunk of the season. When you sign a guy for two years, you expect him to play. I don't like it, but it really isn't the issue for me.

When I see Peluso and Thor dressing in the same game, or Thor playing on the 3rd line, that is what drives me cray.

This is where I hope petan armia are called up to replace top 9 injury.

 

[truck]

This is where I hope petan armia are called up to replace top 9 injury.

I hope so, but I yearn for a team that actually has 4 lines of NHLers.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If they were done with Peluso, they wouldn't have given him a 2 year deal.

Yup. That is apparent. I just hope his role for the next 2 years is to sit in the press box.

Prior to last year I was somewhat supportive of Peluso. He showed enough fundamental skill that there was cause for hope that he would turn out at least equal to Thor as a hockey player and be a better fighter. Well last year he got his chance and he wasn't able to perform. He showed some skill in the O zone but was terrible in the D zone. He spent most of his time in the D zone so that mattered.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He said he wanted to re-sign here but Jets chose to go with youth movement. I used my common sense and connected the dots that he wanted top 9 role, Jets wanted him on 4th line. He will not re-sign here for 4-5 minutes per game and youth movement was Petan Ehlers Armia in 3rd line role. As I said in other thread I doubt guys like Stemp, Goc, Tlusty will sign here for 4-5 min per game, and I have a feeling that Chevy and PMO would like to have one of them for the 4th line but can't get any of them to sign here. They will look for an opportunity much like Raymond got in TOR a few years ago. All IMO of course.

edit: If you look at last year how PMO used Stemp and Tlusty over Peluso and Hali it's obvious who he likes more, but I think the Jets are having a hard time getting those FA to commit to that role here.

I get your reasoning but there are too many assumptions there. If the Jets could ice a 4th line of Stemp - Copp (or better) - Thor it would play closer to 10 min/gm right off the bat. Mason Raymond was 27 when he played for TO. Stemp is 32 so the comparison doesn't work. I'm sure he wanted a top 9 role but what kind of a role is he looking at right now? He will be 33 mid-season. He isn't trying to build a career at this point. He is trying to put a nice cap on it. 4th line on a good and improving team would be better than 3rd line on a bottom feeder. The way I read between the lines the Jets never made him an offer. They said 'sorry, youth movement'.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How do you know there isn't a bunch of teams interested in him?

And not turned down a deal but got no interest in coming over here, hence not even talking to the GM, looking for better opportunity somewhere else, ala Raymond few years back. Being patient.

Its Sept. 5. He isn't signed. That's more than enough evidence.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Keep in mind here, that I agree with you and want no part of Peluso and would love to see Stemp on this team. Im trying to rationalize what the Jets are thinking and I think my thoughts aren't far off.

Am I sure Stemp won't sit in the box? What I mean by that is that he wants to wait for a better opportunity. IMO our third line right now is Burmi Lowry Ehlers. If one gets hurt I think Petan or Armia come up to fill that void if they are not on the team. Stemp is blocked by those prospects, and he's not dumb, cause he said it himself, so I conclude he thinks he can get a better chance elsewhere than start on the Jets fourth line.
Would he leave the team? Hell no, but if you're him why not find a better opportunity if it exists. He may circle back here, and I sure hope he does.
He does not know that by signing that he'd ever be in the press box, and IMO he would never get there, but IMO, he may think he can get a better opp elsewhere much like Raymond did, that seemed to have worked out fine for Raymond.

Like I said I want Stemp here and I think PMO would like to have him here too, he figures he's blocked by 3 good prospects for top 9 work. He may find a better opp elsewhere. Can't compare him and Peluso, different wants from both of those guys, Peluso happy to be here, Stemp hoping for more. Hope he's back tho.

I disagree with this whole line of thinking. It is not that there isn't any logic behind it. It makes a certain sense to a point but it starts with the assumption that Chevy made him an offer. I think it went wrong already. Stemp was never given the opportunity to say no. If he had been looking for a better offer before circling back he would have done so long ago already.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

All Im saying here is that everyone wants Chevy to sign a Stemp and Glencross type, so do I, but everyone is assuming that any of those guys will want to sign here. It's not that easy, those FA will get a PTO somewhere (where they chose to go) and make the team. If they all go to Europe cause they have no offers than I will believe that Chevy wants no part of them. But I think Mau and Chev would like to have one if they were willing to sign.

My thoughts:

LLW
PSE
BLS
Thor Copp (that FA that Jets are looking for) I hope this is Armia's spot

Petan and Armia start in the AHL and get called up for a top 9 injury.
Peluso 13, Hali and the rest in AHL.

This is how I see it right now.

OK, they don't all want to sign here. Do none of them want to sign here? They would rather quit hockey than sign here? No. Just no.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ummm nope. Peluso is a stop gap until our other prospects are ready, ie, Armia or whomever...but the fact is that we are already committed to Peluso, why sign another guy for rookies to beat out. It's easier to sit Peluso then Stempniak.

Ummmm yup. My comment had nothing to do with what the Jets should or shouldn't do or what they will or won't do. It was about Lawless putting both Thor and Peluso on the 4th line at the same time having written a story about a youth movement. A youth movement that he then indicated was made up of Ehlers in the top 9 and Copp on the 4th line. Stempniak is another whole conversation.

Peluso is not a stopgap until our prospects are ready. He is just a gap. Peluso should be no higher than the 13th F. That is if we carry 8 D. If we carry 7 D he should be the 14th F. Thor and Peluso should never be in the lineup at the same time again. But Lawless put them there. That is what I question. I am not questioning Chevy signing Peluso instead of Stempniak. I am questioning Lawless putting him in the lineup.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

I don't see why the Jets could not get Stempniak for 1-2 years at cheap.

* He admitted that he wanted to come back
* He doesn't have anywhere signing him yet (but could have offers)
* He hasn't cost much historically
* He has played 4th line minutes historically
* One player on the fourth line will likely end up play a good chunk of the season on the third line anyways

In response to the red, REALLY? I'll take your word for it if you're sure, but it's pretty surprising. In that light, the fact that he's over 0.5pts/g on his 700 game career is much more impressive. I mean to the point where he'd have to have a sick pts/60.

**edit** in my part if the world, it's noon on my day off, and I didn't have anything better to do, so I looked up my own stats for once. From 2010-2015, Stemper actually averaged 15:55 per game and carried a 1.80pts/60. Seems to be regressing slightly, as over the past 2 seasons the TOI is around the same at 15:36, and he's got 1.65pts/60. Not amazing numbers, but respectable 3rd line stuff.

It also makes you wonder why he's a sub-million dollar player who is probably going to have to settle for a PTO this year. Is there some giant hole in his defensive game that I've missed? Could it be he's not particularly likable? Bad attitude?

Otherwise, why all the continuous bouncing around and low salaries?

 

[garret9]

Old?
Miss valued?

Who knows...

GMs are hardly perfect.

A decent team and coach chose Tanner Glass over Lee Stempniak last year.
That team chose wrong, but they did it.

 

[puck stoppa]

I disagree with this whole line of thinking. It is not that there isn't any logic behind it. It makes a certain sense to a point but it starts with the assumption that Chevy made him an offer. I think it went wrong already. Stemp was never given the opportunity to say no. If he had been looking for a better offer before circling back he would have done so long ago already.

No offer made, Im saying discussion had between agent and Chevy and all we only know one side of what Stemp said about the youth movement. I think youth movement is on third line and am hopeful that they still sign a FA if Armia is not on the fourth to start the year. All Im saying is we don't know if anything else said in those convos turned Stemp away as well. What if Chevy said, here is league min cause you will be fighting for fourth line time cause we have three rookies ahead of you for example, we have no idea is all im saying.

 

[puck stoppa]

Its Sept. 5. He isn't signed. That's more than enough evidence.

You have no clue who his agent is currently taking with, or who is interested in him, could be zero or 4 teams, we don't know. Many FA are waiting for chance, doesn't mean teams won't be interested in their services. We shall wait and see.

 

[puck stoppa]

OK, they don't all want to sign here. Do none of them want to sign here? They would rather quit hockey than sign here? No. Just no.

Im getting ripped for assuming many things, but we also assume that Chevy has not approached any of these guys, we don't know that. Everyone thinks its so easy on here, go get Glencross, sign Tlusty. It's not that easy is all Im saying what if Chevy approached an agent and agent said no thanks, we will take our chances and be patient. We do not know what Chevy has done behind closed doors, and it's just not that easy to get a guy is all Im saying. Money, family, term, city, etc, many factors play into it. We all assume those guys would say yes instantly.