OT: Spoiled Fans!

[BMC]

He is doing what most here wanted him to do. Giving the kids a chance to make the team. they are all getting a shot and they are all blowing it. So the same vocal group screaming that Chia doesn't give the kids a chance are the same that are screaming because there are holes (provided by the kids that are blowing it).

I for one believe he will give it a bit more time but if the kids don't step it up will then make step 2 in the plan a go.

I overlooked this post then I went back & read it again.

What you are saying is very true. Chiarelli & Julien are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

We've heard so much about Spooner, Koko, Fraser and the other Baby Bs & their potential as NHLers. And how they need to get their shot at the big time because the veterans suck and are just taking up space.

Well here we are.....so far not one of the kids has done a damn thing to take a spot away from a veteran for good. Not.one.of.them.

And don't give me any of this bull **** about how they're not being placed in a position to succeed. If any of these guys want to make the big time they have to take full advantage of whatever opportunities are presented to them. If that means mucking it out on the fourth line so be it. Hell that jerk Marchand started out on the fourth line and worked his way up. This year's crop of rookies can do the same thing.

 

[BMC]

I think your dead on here Kate and I think losing Boychuk and Thornton are two major reasons why.

FIFY. You're welcome

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

To be clear, I'm not saying that's a good list of the most successful teams in recent years. Just that even if you try to spin things against Boston by saying 1 Cup in 40+ years, that's not bad when you compare that to other teams and use the same criteria.

 

[Scotto74]

I overlooked this post then I went back & read it again.

What you are saying is very true. Chiarelli & Julien are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

We've heard so much about Spooner, Koko, Fraser and the other Baby Bs & their potential as NHLers. And how they need to get their shot at the big time because the veterans suck and are just taking up space.

Well here we are.....so far not one of the kids has done a damn thing to take a spot away from a veteran for good. Not.one.of.them.

And don't give me any of this bull **** about how they're not being placed in a position to succeed. If any of these guys want to make the big time they have to take full advantage of whatever opportunities are presented to them. If that means mucking it out on the fourth line so be it. Hell that jerk Marchand started out on the fourth line and worked his way up. This year's crop of rookies can do the same thing.

Exactly.

so the people *****ing that we signed Gagne I would love you to tell me who exactly has stepped up from our young crop to make Chia not make that signing. Chia waited a bit to see if anyone, anyone at all would make it so he shouldn't sign Gagne and not one of them did.

Chia/CJ are giving the kids a shot. the kids are blowing it and people are going insane about how we are not a playoff team. well it's just about time for them to go out and use the trade chips and cap space they got from trading JB. But then we will be back to hearing how they don't play the kids anymore everytime the new vet has an off night.

 

[Scotto74]

FIFY. You're welcome

I don't agree there I think Ference was a much bigger loss then Boychuck in terms of team identity. Just my feeling though.

remember the fabled Dallas game. that was all Andy. yes Andy the finger Ference.

 

[MetM]

I don't agree there I think Ference was a much bigger loss then Boychuck in terms of team identity. Just my feeling though.

remember the fabled Dallas game. that was all Andy. yes Andy the finger Ference.

I agree and I said it many times.
This team misses Ference badly. His leadership... Plus, He wouldn't have allowed the Habs to run into Rask like they did last night.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I think your dead on here Kate and I think losing Ference and Thornton are two major reasons why.

Hmmm...something, I have never considered.

And, something I was ready to shoot down until I reminded myself not to be a pretentious dick right before typing up this response.

As much as I thought Thornton was misused (being used in every possible situation) and as much as I never understood why some people HATED ANDREW FERENCE SO DAMN MUCH, I can see the point about them establishing an identity for the team. While cutting ties with those players when they did may have been in the Bruins' best interest, they certainly didn't put a lot of stock into replacing their character.

AGAIN, back to Julien...wow, I'm bad with this these last couple days. Is that not EXACTLY what a guy like Robins could bring? A guy who has pursued his dream to play hockey for a living despite extremely limited success at the age of 32 (I think?). Guys like Jordan Caron, and even Campbell, are clearly very quiet individuals who lack the snarl and attitude we've come accustomed to seeing especially from bottom line/bottom pairing players on this team.

Good on both Scott and Kate for recognizing that. Up until now, I think I sort of dismissed it. But, I think it's a bigger deal than I once thought.

I'm all for a guy or two the "Lucic attitude" on this team of just being a straight up jerk, but you need some glue to, and there doesn't seem to be much of that now. Perhaps, it's all falling to an aging Chara, who I think is clearly trying, but is falling pretty quickly in the on-ice effectiveness department.

 

[bruinsfan46]

Holy cow is Andrew Ference's place in Bruins folk lore higher than it should be. He was a solid #4/5 defenseman who could elevate his play in the postseason, he was routinely pretty brutal for extended stretches in Boston during the regular season and he's been pretty bad for much of his time in Edmonton. If we're worried over six bad regular season games in October trust me that Andrew Ference wouldn't make things much better. His leadership hasn't lifted Edmonton to anything. He was a good Bruin and really good guy who I will forever be grateful to for helping the Bruins win a Cup, but the "really good guy" aspect has turned him into a much better hockey player than he ever was as a Bruin in the minds of many fans. Now Boychuk the Bruins are definitely missing right now, a really good #3 defenseman.

 

[LouJersey]

I remember when my 1986 Mets won their first of 2 or 3 over the next 5 years.

 

[BlackNgold 84]

I remember when my 1986 Mets won their first of 2 or 3 over the next 5 years.

This should be stricken from the record from the Bruins forum

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Holy cow is Andrew Ference's place in Bruins folk lore higher than it should be. He was a solid #4/5 defenseman who could elevate his play in the postseason, he was routinely pretty brutal for extended stretches in Boston during the regular season and he's been pretty bad for much of his time in Edmonton. If we're worried over six bad regular season games in October trust me that Andrew Ference wouldn't make things much better. His leadership hasn't lifted Edmonton to anything. He was a good Bruin and really good guy who I will forever be grateful to for helping the Bruins win a Cup, but the "really good guy" aspect has turned him into a much better hockey player than he ever was as a Bruin in the minds of many fans. Now Boychuk the Bruins are definitely missing right now, a really good #3 defenseman.

But, that's just it. No one is arguing that he was a great player on the ice, or any higher than you are evaluating him as a solid #4/#5 D-man.

The point is, his "character" fit in with this organization to a T. Now, you can come in and say, well you can say the same **** about Chris Kelly. Yes, it's an imperfect science. But, who knows what's going on in that room? Edmonton is playing AF as a top pairing D-man which he has never been and it, along with 100000 other things makes them a horrible team.

Personally, I'm not saying the mistake was letting ST or AF go when the Bruins did. I am saying there was seemingly very little stock put in to their attitudes which affected other players' on-ice performance. McQ and Miller are big, tough, somewhat Ference like D-men, but are they the same locker room leaders? I don't think so.

A team like Edmonton really shows why off the ice, behind the scenes tough is consistently undersold in value as far as overall team success. If that team had even a shred of dignity, I'd have to imagine they'd at least be competing for a playoff spot with their talent. It can't be on a guy like Ference to do it alone all while balancing the responsibilities of managing a role he has never been cut out to handle, much less when he's in the waning years of his career.

 

[Scotto74]

Holy cow is Andrew Ference's place in Bruins folk lore higher than it should be. He was a solid #4/5 defenseman who could elevate his play in the postseason, he was routinely pretty brutal for extended stretches in Boston during the regular season and he's been pretty bad for much of his time in Edmonton. If we're worried over six bad regular season games in October trust me that Andrew Ference wouldn't make things much better. His leadership hasn't lifted Edmonton to anything. He was a good Bruin and really good guy who I will forever be grateful to for helping the Bruins win a Cup, but the "really good guy" aspect has turned him into a much better hockey player than he ever was as a Bruin in the minds of many fans. Now Boychuk the Bruins are definitely missing right now, a really good #3 defenseman.

I think you are very much underestimating what character and Team mean to a hockey team and their success.

If it was skill alone that won cup's pitt would have about 7 our the last 10.

 

[bruinsfan46]

But, that's just it. No one is arguing that he was a great player on the ice, or any higher than you are evaluating him as a solid #4/#5 D-man.

The point is, his "character" fit in with this organization to a T. Now, you can come in and say, well you can say the same **** about Chris Kelly. Yes, it's an imperfect science. But, who knows what's going on in that room? Edmonton is playing AF as a top pairing D-man which he has never been and it, along with 100000 other things makes them a horrible team.

Personally, I'm not saying the mistake was letting ST or AF go when the Bruins did. I am saying there was seemingly very little stock put in to their attitudes which affected other players' on-ice performance. McQ and Miller are big, tough, somewhat Ference like D-men, but are they the same locker room leaders? I don't think so.

Lucic never had bad stretches with Ference on the team? Lucic has had bad stretches his entire career, he's always slumped from time to time and had people worrying where his fire has gone. Seidenberg and McQuaid are playing bad because a lack of leadership or because they haven't played meaningful games in many months? The Bruins still have Chara and Bergeron, guys who from the outside seem like pretty perfect leaders to me. I find the whole idea of leadership pretty overrated in the NHL, these guys are professional athletes who have made it this far because they all have pretty ridiculous drive and passion. Ference definitely fit the team, I just don't think he could lift the Bruins to anything in this tiny slump. He's not a good enough player to do it on the ice and I just don't see how the guys that are here are putting in less of an effort because Andrew Ference isn't there.

 

[EverettMike]

I was using the criteria than BrainofJ was using, but he only used it for us. I even said that's the way to spin it most against Boston. Any other criteria you use would have us compare more favorably.

One cup in four decades is not favorable, in any way shape or form, specially considering how many of those seasons were with a lot less than 30 teams, and in a major market in a major hockey city.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

One cup in four decades is not favorable, in any way shape or form, specially considering how many of those seasons were with a lot less than 30 teams, and in a major market in a major hockey city.

Yeah, that's the least favorable way to spin it though. The most favorable would be 1 Cup in 4 years. Or 1 Cup, 1 finals appearance and 1 President's Trophy in 4 years.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Lucic never had bad stretches with Ference on the team? Lucic has had bad stretches his entire career, he's always slumped from time to time and had people worrying where his fire has gone. Seidenberg and McQuaid are playing bad because a lack of leadership or because they haven't played meaningful games in many months? The Bruins still have Chara and Bergeron, guys who from the outside seem like pretty perfect leaders to me. I find the whole idea of leadership pretty overrated in the NHL, these guys are professional athletes who have made it this far because they all have pretty ridiculous drive and passion. Ference definitely fit the team, I just don't think he could lift the Bruins to anything in this tiny slump. He's not a good enough player to do it on the ice and I just don't see how the guys that are here are putting in less of an effort because Andrew Ference isn't there.

Okay, but there was a clear loss of leadership losing these guys. I am not saying there isn't some remaining, but you do realize the Bruins didn't win a cup in 2011 on skill? It was because they had a A TON of character. And, obviously, breakout performances from more than just one player. The "character" and "leadership" level has dramatically dropped in the last year or two, IMO, and one of your leaders, Chara, is not so slowly losing his on ice effectiveness. Aside from which, I truly believe Chara's leadership wasn't in his words but his actions. Through no fault of his own, it's becoming harder and harder for him to do that. People call for an injection of talent (which I'd love to see), but an injection of some direction would be nice.

This is again why I call for Bobby Robins. That game against Philly, he was setting the tone every time he was on the ice, even if it was only for a very limited time. You can't understate that ****. Completely nullifying someone like Rinaldo and one-upping a team like Philly that's trying to play physical? You can't understate that.

You need to tone-setters, not just the biggest assortment of skill you can find. See Edmonton. Or, Montreal, before even they figured out there is some usefulness to the Prust's and Gallagher's of the world who are average players but bring an edge.

 

[EverettMike]

I mean, is the standard of success to compare yourself to Toronto?

How about Carolina?

Or should you be trying to be in the conversation with Detroit?

Saying, "We won once in 40 years, that isn't spoiled," does not need to be spun or put into perspective, unless you are talking World Cup soccer. But even then I guaran-damn-tee Germany or Brazil or Italy wouldn't be okay with that. The United States would be, probably even Mexico, and Nigeria would be over-the-moon and never stop talking about it.

 

[EverettMike]

Yeah, that's the least favorable way to spin it though. The most favorable would be 1 Cup in 4 years. Or 1 Cup, 1 finals appearance and 1 President's Trophy in 4 years.

But that's why being upset with the direction of the franchise, especially for this year, is legitimate.

Championships are really hard to win. And when you put yourself into that upper echelon of being able to win you need to maximize it. Some of us feel Chiarelli has started to make moves that don't maximize it, and has actually done things to hurt it.

A Bruins fan would have bet their life that Bobby Orr would win at least one more cup after the 72 playoffs ended.

 

[bruinsfan46]

I think you are very much underestimating what character and Team mean to a hockey team and their success.

If it was skill alone that won cup's pitt would have about 7 our the last 10.

So a really good leader would turn MAF into a much better goalie in the playoffs? He chokes because of the guys around him and what they say and not because of him? I'm just trying to figure this leadership thing out, because I think you and much of HFBruins overestimate what character and team mean to a hockey team and success. Who determines who has good character? Richards and Carter allegedly had character problems in Philly, won two Cups in LA.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

For the record, I am glad and very surprised some decent conversation has come out of this thread.

My feeling that it was just another thread to polarize the fanbase was not even half right.

I think what it comes down to is some people are overreacting...some people are underreacting...some people are just going to wait and see, etc. I think we really should all be in the "wait and see" category with some concerns. Even though I'm not in the "total freakout" crowd that's being referenced (and applied to more people than it really should be), I can understand the concern with some people, as can I understand the people who don't want to have a cow over a 2-4 start.

 

[EverettMike]

Some day Brady and Belichik are going to both be gone, and the Pats will go back to being just another team and it'll suck and we will be desperate for the chance to lose AFC title games.

That doesn't make someone being disappointed that they haven't won in over a decade right now spoiled. I defend the Pats, and I also am bummed out we don't have a 4th title.

I wish we kept Deion Branch for the 06 season knowing what I know now. Just like I wish we kept Boychuk. That doesn't make me spoiled. It means I am capable of having perspective and knowing neither extreme makes sense.

 

[member 96824]

Yeah, that's the least favorable way to spin it though. The most favorable would be 1 Cup in 4 years. Or 1 Cup, 1 finals appearance and 1 President's Trophy in 4 years.

It's not spin. In no way was I trying to spin that...please stop saying that. It's kind of insulting. Take it at face value.

I'm saying I don't want to wait, nor do I think it's acceptable to wait another 40 years for one cup....and I don't think believing that makes anyone spoiled.

The conversation went "1 cup every 40 years should not be acceptable"-FJ

Redeye piped in with "Technically it's every 30 years"

Brad says "No, it's factually 42 going on 43"

I laid out why I believe that, but that was predictably ignored. More spin I presume.

 

[Braunbaer]

so the people *****ing that we signed Gagne I would love you to tell me who exactly has stepped up from our young crop to make Chia not make that signing. Chia waited a bit to see if anyone, anyone at all would make it so he shouldn't sign Gagne and not one of them did.

I hate we were/are in the position to consider Gagné and sign him.
But with regard to our situation I like the signing. It's 600k ... and I doubt he forgot how to score goals. I even want him on the top line since Krejci needs someone to pass to.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

So a really good leader would turn MAF into a much better goalie in the playoffs? He chokes because of the guys around him and what they say and not because of him? I'm just trying to figure this leadership thing out, because I think you and much of HFBruins overestimate what character and team mean to a hockey team and success. Who determines who has good character? Richards and Carter allegedly had character problems in Philly, won two Cups in LA.

Seems like you're speaking in the absolute most literal sense just to sidestep the point. It doesn't seem hard to realize the Bruins have lost a bit of character and leadership in the past couple years, and that may be affecting their on-ice play. Doesn't help that your number one D-man is getting a lot older, you have a nagging 1st line RW question mark, etc., but the team overcame shortcoming and skill gaps before, and it seems like you can associate at least some of that to better all-around team commitment and direction.

Just my two cents. I'm not going to say you're wrong, and this doesn't have to do with losing some skill. But, I also don't feel you're right to totally shoot down this notion that team character matters.

And to bite the bait a bit...MAF was always overrated...he's just been getting exposed over the last few years because he had an especially indifferent defense with Dan Bylsma at the helm.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I hate we were/are in the position to consider Gagné and sign him.
But with regard to our situation I like the signing. It's 600k ... and I doubt he forgot how to score goals. I even want him on the top line since Krejci needs someone to pass to.

Exactly this.