GDT: Spidey Says Desperate Times: Devils @ Penguins, 7 PM, MSG+

[Emperoreddy]

Maybe next Tuesday the Wild will leave Bruce in Jersey.

 

[jkrdevil]

Maybe next Tuesday the Wild will leave Bruce in Jersey.

who ever does the GDT needs to do a “Wife Swap” theme for it (I’m talking about the reality show).

 

[Bleedred]

Unless Hynes ends the no-event conservative bullshit and ends it soon, I can see players on this team having the offensive point totals that guys had during the MacLean season, where they were at or close to career lows for almost everybody. If Hynes is here through most of December, I can see many players ending the season that way. Even if Hynes is gone by Christmas.

I feel like guys like Hischier and Bratt will have such underwhelming point totals that people will be second guessing the 2017 even more than they already are and then maybe even the 2019 draft when Hughes finishes with almost a historically low point total for a first overall pick and has fewer points than Kirby Dach or god forbid Kakko. And then Subban will also likely have a career low in points and we'll be hearing people shred him even more. Zajac looks like he's easily gonna coast to a career low in points. Severson hasn't produced hardly anything this year.

Nobody is gonna rack up points with this kind of hockey, where the team has scored more than 2 goals only once in its last 10 games played. Even players like John Hayden and Kevin Rooney might only finish with half the points they would have otherwise had.

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah Mueller needs to get shot into the sun when Carrick gets back with his bionic finger.

Definitely think it's time to pull the plug on him. No reason to waive him (because the next option right behind him is Tennyson and Tennyson is much worse than Mueller is), but I'd like to see Carrick in over him also, at this point.

I think Mueller is done here after this year. He'll probably not be tendered an RFA offer. I did think that was going to happen to him after last year, and it probably would have if not for us shedding Santini in the Subban trade, as Santini had term and Mueller didn't.

I really thought he was gonna be Beau Bennetted/DSP'd after last year. Noesen was the only one that really got that treatment after last year.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I believe Mueller would be an effective 3rd pairing or 7th Dman on virtually any team in the NHL not named the Devils.

Mueller is candidate #1 for being forced to hammer a round peg into a square hole under John Hynes' insane, "all dmen must play offense all game long" system.

That is not Mirco Mueller's game. It has never been Mirco Mueller's game at any level of his life. Mueller is a stay-at-home guy who wants to take-the-body, and hang back as the free safety, the conservative guy who has his teammates backs, especially the forwards upon turnovers. You know, the kind of defensive role that EVERY FLIPPING SUCCESSFUL TEAM IN HOCKEY HISTORY EMPLOYS, other than John Hynes.

So why are you forcing this guy to try to be Paul Coffey every night? Oh, he FAILED in that role? Gosh. Color me shocked! (sarcasm)

 

[BenedictGomez]

Example of Post #830 (and this goes for how dumb & turbo risky Hynes' system is for ANY Dman, not just Mirco Mueller).

Screenshot #1
Butcher has control of the puck by the goalline, and Mueller is in his defensive area. Butcher is about to turn, and execute a decent pass to Coleman.

Screenshot #2
Coleman now has control of the puck in the defesive zone, so BOTH Zajac & Mueller must FAST ATTACK!!!!, because Hynes, and they are in the process of fleeing the defensive zone.

Screenshot #3
Coleman has coughed up the puck, but now instead of Mueller responsibly being back, a role he wants to play, a role that is NORMAL to play, and a role that suits HIS game , only Butcher remains to face the challenge, with moments to react. Mueller would MUCH prefer to, as on a normal team, responsibly hang back until zone exit is assured, but under FAST ATTACK!!!!! he was forced to vacate what should be his area of defensive responsibility.

I cannot even imagine how confusing this "system" must be to a dman. You must be thinking, "should I go or not?" all game long. I've never seen anything like this.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Pens fan coming in peace: Just wanted to say how my jaw dropped watching Hughes skate tonight. I didn't see it last game, but geez, we are a fast team yet tonight Jack made us look like he had two gears we lacked in a couple of shifts. And he's not fast like Hagelin fast, but composed/fast with his head on a swivel. Looks like he's matured enormously in less than 2 weeks.

Devils will have to be reckoned with soon, maybe some scheme changes and a bit of roster movement, but this can happen quickly in the cap-strapped NHL(see Penguins, Pittsburgh 2009, 2016).

Hughes is one hell of an 18 year old player, congrats and hope you guys get to enjoy and appreciate his talent for years to come.

 

[Emperoreddy]

How can a system be both risky and low event at the same time?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Pens fan coming in peace: Just wanted to say how my jaw dropped watching Hughes skate tonight. I didn't see it last game, but geez, we are a fast team yet tonight Jack made us look like he had two gears we lacked in a couple of shifts. And he's not fast like Hagelin fast, but composed/fast with his head on a swivel. Looks like he's matured enormously in less than 2 weeks.

Devils will have to be reckoned with soon, maybe some scheme changes and a bit of roster movement, but this can happen quickly in the cap-strapped NHL(see Penguins, Pittsburgh 2009, 2016).

Hughes is one hell of an 18 year old player, congrats and hope you guys get to enjoy and appreciate his talent for years to come.

Does Scranton want Hynes back?

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Does Scranton want Hynes back?

If things go to s***, maybe. WBS HC will go to the big time if Sully flops and Hynes would be welcomed back as a hero. That is conditional on Shero dealing us Hall in a sweetheart deal...

 

[glenwo2]

If things go to s***, maybe. WBS HC will go to the big time if Sully flops and Hynes would be welcomed back as a hero. That is conditional on Shero dealing us Hall in a sweetheart deal...

Hall? YOU CAN HAVE HIM!

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Example of Post #830 (and this goes for how dumb & turbo risky Hynes' system is for ANY Dman, not just Mirco Mueller).

Screenshot #1
Butcher has control of the puck by the goalline, and Mueller is in his defensive area. Butcher is about to turn, and execute a decent pass to Coleman.

Screenshot #2
Coleman now has control of the puck in the defesive zone, so BOTH Zajac & Mueller must FAST ATTACK!!!!, because Hynes, and they are in the process of fleeing the defensive zone.

Screenshot #3
Coleman has coughed up the puck, but now instead of Mueller responsibly being back, a role he wants to play, a role that is NORMAL to play, and a role that suits HIS game , only Butcher remains to face the challenge, with moments to react. Mueller would MUCH prefer to, as on a normal team, responsibly hang back until zone exit is assured, but under FAST ATTACK!!!!! he was forced to vacate what should be his area of defensive responsibility.

I cannot even imagine how confusing this "system" must be to a dman. You must be thinking, "should I go or not?" all game long. I've never seen anything like this.

At my age, I shouldn’t be waking up annoyed over a hockey game but holy shit have I had enough of this awful garbage ass hockey. I just can’t take it anymore. It’s not even the results. No one likes to lose but you just can’t look this bad while doing it. Maybe the results aren’t as bad but the last time I felt like this is when Mac was coach. It was just like wtf are you waiting for? The only difference here is that we’ve been exposed to Hynes for over 4 years already. HE HAS NO ANSWERS. When will it end? As a fan, I don’t even care about wins anymore. The only thing I look forward to is that moment when the shoe drops and we’re finally rid of Hynes and this awful coaching staff.

 

[Devils731]

How can a system be both risky and low event at the same time?

The Devils play a high risk system but have no ability to dictate the pace of the game. Opponents can see a low event style where they control the puck most of the game in the Devils zone is most effective against the Devils. So the Devils take big risks for no benefits and the other team keeps the game slow to wear the Devils down.

 

[Triumph]

The Devils play a high risk system but have no ability to dictate the pace of the game. Opponents can see a low event style where they control the puck most of the game in the Devils zone is most effective against the Devils. So the Devils take big risks for no benefits and the other team keeps the game slow to wear the Devils down.

While I think the broader points of this are true, I think you really overestimate how much time the puck is in the Devils' zone versus the other team. Even though the Devils are one of the worst territorial teams in the league, the difference is still going to be small over a game.

 

[BenedictGomez]

While I think the broader points of this are true, I think you really overestimate how much time the puck is in the Devils' zone versus the other team. Even though the Devils are one of the worst territorial teams in the league, the difference is still going to be small over a game.

Perhaps he is, but the time in minutes is really irrelevant.

The "high risk" aspect of Hynes' system is that it absolutely begs for defensive zone turnovers.

Not just in the "fly the zone" example I laid out with pictures above, but with long defensive stretch passes right through the middle of the defensive zone. Point being, you can be okay with all this 50 times per night, but the 5 times you screw this "high risk" behaviour up, 2 or 3 of them end up in your net. A not insignificant number of goals against on the Devils are scored like this. Two of the goals last night against the Devils were 100% "Hynes' system" goals. Granted, they still would have lost without those 2 goals, but.......

 

[Devils731]

While I think the broader points of this are true, I think you really overestimate how much time the puck is in the Devils' zone versus the other team. Even though the Devils are one of the worst territorial teams in the league, the difference is still going to be small over a game.

I definitely could be but I think shot metrics are not doing a good job accurately reflecting zone time or control time as the Devils tend to shoot very quickly once in the zone while opponents are more comfortable waiting for a good shot.

I also don’t think shot location is doing a good enough job reflecting on the Devils. Opponents get a number of offensive plays with no Devil harassing them. I don’t think the Devils are getting unharrased looks in the offensive zone as often as they give them to opponents. I don’t think expected goals takes into account how much time and space opponents are getting.

A broader concern that these lead to is that the metrics look better than the on ice play. We know metrics don’t reflect everything but are a good way to compare teams and players we don’t get to see often. We all watch the Devils enough that I think we can discuss if metrics are accurately measuring the Devils play and I think it’s doing a poor job.

I have a worry that the front office is putting too much emphasis on the metrics over the eyeballs. The eyeballs say the team is a disaster in all 3 zone while the metrics say better goaltending would solve the teams record; since the team line was that the goaltending was the problem I’m not sure the eyeballs are getting enough say.