Movies: Spider-Man: Homecoming

Street Hawk

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Really? IMO thats waaaay better than having a device do it.

I disagree. Making his own webbing shows off Parker's knowledge of science. Plus, in the comics, running out of web fluid happens to Spidey.

I do think that the high tech suit took away from some of Spidey. Missed the Spidey sense. Plus, the way the webbing comes out is totally in control of Peter, not the suit. It's supposed to be how he presses the web shooter that dictates whether it's a spray, grenade, rope, etc.

I get that Marvel was trying to do something different than the Raimi movies which the first 2 are still the best of the 6 that have been made about Spidey. Disappointed that this Spidey is so raw that he is causing damage to people's property while trying to save the day.

Weird to see Peter with a support system. I'm just used to it being just him.
 

beowulf

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Really? IMO thats waaaay better than having a device do it.

Disagree, it makes no sense that it would suddenly appear on his wrist since on a real spider it's by the arse.

Also it has always been a way to show how smart Peter is that he was able to create this artificial spider web.
 

Neutrinos

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I was pretty disappointed with the film

Keaton was okay, I suppose, but there were too many poor choices in direction to be ignored, like:

Peter's stammering speech

Calls where one person has something important to say, yet can't get a word in (I counted 3 times this happened!)

Peter's fat friend who just happens to be computer savvy enough to hack Stark's technology

Peter's crush being the daughter of the villain he's after

And worst of all, Peter turning down the chance to become an Avenger at the end of the film as if anybody - let alone a high school boy - would pass up that opportunity


I just can't give this film anything more than an average grade

Having said that, I did notice a concerted effort on the part of the filmmakers to cast a diversified cast
 
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Fantomas

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Aug 7, 2012
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On Spider-Man: Homecoming: A well-made film but rubs me the wrong way for several reasons.

- Tony Stark industries is basically Lockheed Martin. The idea of a weapon manufacturer as superhero is pretty offensive to me and should be offensive to anyone with some social consciousness.

- Rich kids in fancy schools are not this racially diverse. I suppose in an ideal world we could all be racially diverse and economically affluent, but not in one of privatized police and weapons manufacturing.

- Technological utopianism porn. I'm used to it, but I don't like it.

The killing, smuggling and thieving aside, Michael Keaton could have been written as a sympathetic character, a hardworking man mistreated by a system and led to a life of crime. Meanwhile Tony Stark is a fascist and Spider-man is an abettor to a fascist. I'm sad that our kids are being exposed to this.
 
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Jussi

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On Spider-Man: Homecoming: A well-made film but rubs me the wrong way for several reasons.

- Tony Stark industries is basically Lockheed Martin. The idea of a weapon manufacturer as superhero is pretty offensive to me and should be offensive to anyone with some social consciousness.

- Rich kids in fancy schools are not this racially diverse. I suppose in an ideal world we could all be racially diverse and economically affluent, but not in one of privatized police and weapons manufacturing.

- Technological utopianism porn. I'm used to it, but I don't like it.

The killing, smuggling and thieving aside, Michael Keaton could have been written as a sympathetic character, a hardworking man mistreated by a system and led to a life of crime. Meanwhile Tony Stark is a fascist and Spider-man is an abettor to a fascist. I'm sad that our kids are being exposed to this.

Someone forgot to watch earlier Iron Man and Avengers movies...

Parker's school isn't "fancy", just a regular school in Queens.
 

SeidoN

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Stark as a weapons manufacturer is literally the whole point of the first Iron Man movie. and a sideplot in Age of Ultron
 

Finlandia WOAT

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And worst of all, Peter turning down the chance to become an Avenger at the end of the film as if anybody - let alone a high school boy - would pass up that opportunity

That's not a problem- the problem. The problem is the inconsistency between what is happening on screen and what is happening in the story.

Peter wants to be in the Avengers. But Peter can't be in the Avengers because he's a dumb kid and no one (least of all Tony Stark) takes him seriously.

Peter finds out about Michael Keaton and where he will be (on a motherf***ing boat) and when that "will be" will be "now" and yadda yadda. He tells Stark but Stark is kind of a jerk and blows him off (notice how 1) Stark doesn't bother to clearly explain what will happen, specifically that he will call the FBI and let them handle it, and 2) At no point does Stark take direct responsibility for his lack of communication exacerbating/causing this entire fiasco in the first place) in such a manner that Peter thinks he has to go to the boat anyway after Stark specifically told him to not go to the boat. Things happen, and the boat almost sinks, people almost die, Michael Keaton gets away, etc etc.

To whit, Peter disobeys Stark, and makes the situation worse, putting innocent people at risk for little reason. Peter is "punished" by having his super suit taken away and having his childish dream shattered.

So what does Peter do in the 3rd act? The same damn thing! He disobeys Stark again and crashes a f***ing cargo plane into New York City. Why? To save a couple crates worth of Stark stuff!

This is the dissonance. Stark is furious when Peter disobeys him, gets personally involved and nearly sinks a boat in the second act: but in the third act is totally fine, in fact, exuberant, when Peter disobeys him, gets personally involved and CRASHES A f***ING CARGO PLANE INTO NEW YORK CITY. One which was loaded with A METRIC TON (actually several) OF VALUABLE TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU WERE PERSONALLY INVESTED IN.

Why is Stark not trying to deep six Peter to Antarctica? Why is he happy? Was the plane and the technology within insured for ten times the actual worth? Was this entire film about a Tony Stark insurance scam?***

What has changed between the second act and the conclusion that Stark wants to give Peter what he wants? Nothing. Yet the film acts like everything has changed, even though nothing on screen is indicative of that change.

That's the problem. Nothing changes from the 2nd to 3rd act/conclusion, yet Stark goes from wanting to bite Peter's head off to giving him exactly what he wants for no discernible reason.

You find the same dissonance with Peter's desire to be in the Avengers. Peter goes after Michael Keaton, ditching his prom date/crush/unhealthy childish fixation to do it. He is willing to put his friend's father in jail over this, something the film either didn't notice or banked the audience wouldn't notice because they gave Peter, in total sincerity, the line; "How could you do this to her?". Uh, excuse me, Pete, who is it that is trying to put Michael Keaton in jail? Get outta here.

Aside: Why was The Shocker at the prom? Someone probably already pointed this out, IDK, but here is my answer: originally Michael Keaton was going to chaperone the prom, which is why he was recalcitrant to steal the Stark stuff (since that was on the same date as the prom, after all). But he changed his mind, and got one of his underlings to fill in. Keaton found out literally 2 minutes before Peter encounters The Shocker that Peter is Spider Man and will probably run out of the prom- so he was already there. That underling may also have been his brother-in-law (they seemed to be a bit closer than the other members of the work force, and I think Keaton mentions in the prologue of getting The second Shocker that job)

Or they just wanted to resolve that plotline in the film and lampshaded ("Why are you here?!?" "I guess you'll never know") that there is literally no reason for The Shocker to be there.

Anyway....

So at that point, Peter wants to be in the Avengers. Alright. So what, in that battle between Keaton and Pete, changes Peter's opinion on wanting to be in the Avengers.

Again, nothing.

The closest I could come up with is that Peter is traumatized by the battle with Keaton and just wants to be a neighborhood vigilante, going after pickpockets and bank robbers- but nothing in the closing scene indicates this (which IMO would be a clever parallel between Stark and Peter). It presents it as if Peter has come to some deep understanding about how you're only a teenager once, or something, I don't remember. But at what point in the final battle did he specifically learn that lesson? Remember, he ditched prom with his crush to put her father in prison: why is he suddenly now like, "Actually, I just want to be a teenager!". He was begging Stark to let him join the Avengers; was persistently calling them night and day; was devastated when Stark closed that avenue; and was willing to ditch prom for a chance to redeem himself. Three times in the film, Peter ditches high school fun/ the girl he likes to go be Spider Man, yet at the end of the film he decides high school > Avengers, why?

It's the exact same problem. What happens in the story is unsupported by what happens on screen. There is no reason for Peter's change beyond the need to end the story as if there were some actual change. It's not that it's unrealistic, it's that the story doesn't support the conclusion.

***= "He was happy Peter stopped the Vulture." Stopped him from doing what, exactly? All Peter has to do is call Tony Stark or Happy once the flight is over and say, "Hey, that crate you're missing, that's not an accounting error, Michael Keaton stole it, he lives at 1234 Birdman Avenue, in a nice, new age house, if you hurry you can probably still catch him and get your stuff back!". The consistent third act would be something like: Peter learns his lesson from the second act, calls Stark and then goes and enjoys himself, I mean really enjoys himself, at high school prom. Stark/the FBI assemble at Keaton's house, but Keaton escapes. His empire reduced to dust, he resolves to destroy Peter Parker- so the big final battle is Keaton trying to kill Peter for ruining his life. This also gives payoff from the earlier choices when Parker chose Spider Man > High School. It gives him/the audience a sense of what is at stake when he chooses between Spider Man and High School. Parker finally picks High School and realizes, hey, you know, maybe I am missing out on something. You can't have Parker consistently choose Spider Man, and then suddenly realize High School is better without showing Parker even choosing High School at any point of the film.
 
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Finlandia WOAT

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Overall, I liked most, if not all, parts of the film, but as an entire package the fatal flaw above is too great to ignore.
 

beowulf

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I think what changed Peter's mind was that he matured really fast after seeing how hard it is against the "big boys" that have weapons etc to fight back and not some bike or purse thieves. I think deep down he wanted to say he but he feels he needs to get better to really fit in, to be a kid for a while longer. I also think he felt it was a test, even if it wasn't, and he knows that the door is always open for him to join the team.
 

Jack Straw

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Just watched it last night. I thought Peter's decision not to join the Avengers was completely consistent with the character from the comics. Although he teams up with the Avengers occasionally I don't recall him ever being a "real" member like many of the others. What bothered me more was that he was pretty careless in letting a couple people discover his secret identity. In the books, Spider Man is pretty obsessed with not doing that. Overall I thought it was flawed in some ways but still highly enjoyable.
 

Neutrinos

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I think what changed Peter's mind was that he matured really fast after seeing how hard it is against the "big boys" that have weapons etc to fight back and not some bike or purse thieves. I think deep down he wanted to say he but he feels he needs to get better to really fit in, to be a kid for a while longer. I also think he felt it was a test, even if it wasn't, and he knows that the door is always open for him to join the team.

Are you really scared of the "big boys" when you're with Thor, Hulk and Vision? Not to mention Scarlett Witch, who might be more powerful than any of them

No teenage boy in the history of the world would pass up the chance to fight alongside them
 

beowulf

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Are you really scared of the "big boys" when you're with Thor, Hulk and Vision? Not to mention Scarlett Witch. who might be more powerful than any of them

No teenage boy in the history of the world would pass up the chance to fight alongside them
Who said he was scared, Peter is an intellectual before anything and I see it as him deciding that being home with his aunt and friends while learning more about his abilities and to protect his hometown. Look at the decades of Spider Man comics he is almost exclusively depicted in New York.
 

Suxnet

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Jan 4, 2012
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The Tony Stark influence ruined the entire film. Got about halfway through and the talking suit pissed me off so much that I had to turn it off. This ain't Spiderman. RDJ and Marvel can f*** off.
 

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