Speculation: Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXIV

[EdJovanovski]

You do realize Chytil is Czech, right? And not Russian.

American Buch, now Russian Chytil

 

[jay from jersey]

Or the “grass is always greener” syndrome for people who wanted to shell out a 1st + + for a guy like Dvorak whom it’s very debatable whether he would even be an improvement over a Chytil or Strome at this point.

DVO is currently better at every facet of hockey then both of those guys currently, except point wise. And there is a case to be made that DVO would see a points increase here playing with better players. Especially Panarin. Much like Strome increased his production when playing on a line with him. Whether or not he’s the long term better player is a point of contentious debate. But he’s signed to a solid contract, plays a responsible 200ft game, good at the Dot, etc basically everything you would want upgrading from Strome except points, which again, would likely increase here as well.
It’s not as though DVO is offensively inept. His line mates for the majority of the year were Crouse and Pitlck, 2 guys that are 4th line talents on real teams. On the PP he played with an old Kessel, who still has pretty decent hands, but his game has fallen off in every other aspect. Keller was rushed and had another bad year.
Watching a lot of coyote hockey I can honestly say the only guys that stood out to me as making an impact every game we DVO, Chychrun, and Kuemper ( when not injured).
I also like how Crouse looked, but it’s obvious he was Miscast in his role as a shutdown/scoring winger. I still think he would make a very good addition to our 4th line as a guy that hits, cycles the puck well, stands up for teammates, and can pop in 5-12 goals a year, but I digress.

if The habs run a line of
Gallagher-Dvorak-Anderson
I bet DVO has a career year numbers wise and many people change their tune calling him a 3C naybe borderline 2 guy. A late first and a 2nd is a fair price for him and it could wind up looking like a steal if he hits his next gear after leaving that dumpster fire

 

[eco's bones]

You do realize Chytil is Czech, right? And not Russian.

I thought that was apparent in my first post. All the second post was about is why I wouldn’t want him playing in Russia.

 

[tlk]

zzzzZZZ YAWNing (as an east European/Russian) at all the confusing (or not) us Slavs between each other))

 

[duhmetreE]

American Buch, now Russian Chytil

he is kinda lazy sometimes

 

[Barnaby]

DVO is currently better at every facet of hockey then both of those guys currently, except point wise. And there is a case to be made that DVO would see a points increase here playing with better players. Especially Panarin. Much like Strome increased his production when playing on a line with him. Whether or not he’s the long term better player is a point of contentious debate. But he’s signed to a solid contract, plays a responsible 200ft game, good at the Dot, etc basically everything you would want upgrading from Strome except points, which again, would likely increase here as well.
It’s not as though DVO is offensively inept. His line mates for the majority of the year were Crouse and Pitlck, 2 guys that are 4th line talents on real teams. On the PP he played with an old Kessel, who still has pretty decent hands, but his game has fallen off in every other aspect. Keller was rushed and had another bad year.
Watching a lot of coyote hockey I can honestly say the only guys that stood out to me as making an impact every game we DVO, Chychrun, and Kuemper ( when not injured).
I also like how Crouse looked, but it’s obvious he was Miscast in his role as a shutdown/scoring winger. I still think he would make a very good addition to our 4th line as a guy that hits, cycles the puck well, stands up for teammates, and can pop in 5-12 goals a year, but I digress.

if The habs run a line of
Gallagher-Dvorak-Anderson
I bet DVO has a career year numbers wise and many people change their tune calling him a 3C naybe borderline 2 guy. A late first and a 2nd is a fair price for him and it could wind up looking like a steal if he hits his next gear after leaving that dumpster fire

He's better at every facet of the game... except offensively? Which is half the game? He might see a point increase playing with better wingers. He might also see a decrease considering he'd get little, if any, PP time.

I'm not saying he's a lousy player. I'm just saying that he wasn't a clear cut upgrade. If I'm shelling out a 1st and a blue chip prospect, then I want a clear cut upgrade. Putting Dvorak in Strome's spot is not a guarantee to upgrade that line. Dvorak vs. Chytil? I think that's very debatable, and we'll have to wait 2-3 years to know the answer to that one. In a vacuum, I'd probably take Dvorak as we sit here today, but it wouldn't shock me to see Chytil have the better career. So to give up significant assets? No thanks.

 

[Avery16]

Finally we’re getting around to filling the chasm left by letting Vinni Lettieri walk.

 

[SA16]

He's better at every facet of the game... except offensively? Which is half the game? He might see a point increase playing with better wingers. He might also see a decrease considering he'd get little, if any, PP time.

I'm not saying he's a lousy player. I'm just saying that he wasn't a clear cut upgrade. If I'm shelling out a 1st and a blue chip prospect, then I want a clear cut upgrade. Putting Dvorak in Strome's spot is not a guarantee to upgrade that line. Dvorak vs. Chytil? I think that's very debatable, and we'll have to wait 2-3 years to know the answer to that one. In a vacuum, I'd probably take Dvorak as we sit here today, but it wouldn't shock me to see Chytil have the better career. So to give up significant assets? No thanks.

The "point increase" playing with better players is always a meaningless argument when talking about acquiring someone. Let us assume his linemates in MTL are better than in ARI (which I don't necessarily agree with but whatever). Anyone playing on that line would get a point increase. It makes no difference if it is Dvorak going from 35 pts to 45 pts or if it is some other guy going from 50 pts to 60 pts. It's the same net change.

The case where it matters is for someone like Panarin. We already know he is good enough to create offense on his own. There is a limit to how much offense a line can create. If you put Eichel with Panarin the line will of course be better. But we already know you can put a cheaper player with Panarin and still have an extremely good line. So you're better off doing the latter and spending the money to improve other parts of your team.

The other thing is the trade is not a late 1st and a 2nd. It's probably a mid 1st and a 2nd.

 

[Fitzy]

I never thought of Trivigno as the kind of player to be able to adjust to NHL hockey.

 

[Ola]

For a bit of context.

Chytil was drafted out of the Czech league and made the team out of training camp in AV’s last year with us as coach. After two games the Rangers decided he needed more seasoning and he wanted to go to the AHL. Personally sending him back to the Czech league wasn’t the best option. Liiga or the SHL would have been better if he were going back to Europe. He went to Hartford—played center all year—missed 15 or so games with an injury. He didn’t come back to the Rangers until after the deadline/purge. That handful of games he got then was not a big deal. The next season he was back in Hartford for the first month of the season and since then has been with the Rangers.

From my POV the Czech league would have been perfect for Chytil. It’s just borderline incompetence by NHL GMs to rush the kids to NA/the AHL. They want the kids close, they feel that they can do the job as well as not better than the previous organization.

Facts are, they don’t. It’s a big step, changing continents. Guys like Kotkaniemi and Puljujärvi where borderline established in the SM-liiga, it’s not a great league. Why rush them over? Expectations are sky high due to draft position, you don’t go from being so-so in Finland to a star in the NHL. They are disappointments their rookie year. Things like that leaves a mark.

You draft these kids because they have developed great in a certain environment. Why mess with that? You know that he develops great in that environment, you don’t know how he will develop in another environment. Why take that risk?

Since we don’t have an alternate universe it’s impossible to “prove” that a kid would do better in one environment compare to another, but you compare a group of players that were given more time with a group of players that were rushed over the former is out producing the later by a wide margin. There are also reasons for that. Like the AHL don’t even practice much. It’s one of the first remarks you hear from Europeans that go to the AHL, for by chunks we don’t even practice, 3 games a week, travel by bus, everyone are worn down. Some skates, some area of the game plan is worked on, but no real skill developing.

 

[Fitzy]

From my POV the Czech league would have been perfect for Chytil. It’s just borderline incompetence by NHL GMs to rush the kids to NA/the AHL. They want the kids close, they feel that they can do the job as well as not better than the previous organization.

\

In my opinion, it's a league bias that a player who is 'physically ready' but not hockey-smarts ready for the NHL can make the adjustment easier than a player who is vice versa, which isn't always necessarily accurate.

Chytil was 6'2" and could skate well so everyone just thought the mental aspect would develop naturally if we threw him into the deep end of the pool.

 

[haohmaru]

So, guessing this is going the route of LoHud? I'm not paying for it, just like I'm not paying for LoHud. I mean, I don't know what the answer is, but the only thing I read in the Post is LB.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I never thought of Trivigno as the kind of player to be able to adjust to NHL hockey.

Sometimes you just need warm bodies. Remember Jerret Smith?

 

[jay from jersey]

He's better at every facet of the game... except offensively? Which is half the game? He might see a point increase playing with better wingers. He might also see a decrease considering he'd get little, if any, PP time.

I'm not saying he's a lousy player. I'm just saying that he wasn't a clear cut upgrade. If I'm shelling out a 1st and a blue chip prospect, then I want a clear cut upgrade. Putting Dvorak in Strome's spot is not a guarantee to upgrade that line. Dvorak vs. Chytil? I think that's very debatable, and we'll have to wait 2-3 years to know the answer to that one. In a vacuum, I'd probably take Dvorak as we sit here today, but it wouldn't shock me to see Chytil have the better career. So to give up significant assets? No thanks.

He didn’t cost a 1st and a blue chip prospect. Or 2 1sts or some of the crazy prices we saw on the boards. He cost a mid 1St and a 2nd. I would have happily traded Jones, 2nd, Georgiev for him. Or even a 1st and Georgiev.
Its not so much that Strome and Chytil are better Offensively and DVO isn’t. But if your going by the stat line it looks that way, but Dvo was on a far worse team with almost No help. It’s hard to predict how a change of scenery would impact him, especially if he was going to center a top 5 wing in the NHL like Panarin. DVO immediately does the little things on the line with panarin that strome lacks. Points wise, the line might not be the same, but as far as doing the dirty work and playing a better all around game, Dvo checks a lot of boxes that strome doesn’t.
Before Strome came here, he was nothing to write about offensively. He had 1 50pt season which at the time of the trade was looking like a fluke. He was a season away from being waiver wire fodder. He comes here and gets a chance with Panarin and his fortune changes.
Some think he’s now worth a 1st as a rental ( not me).
I’m not saying DVoarak is offensively inept either. His increased his offensive out put every year. Last season being his best so far he was pacing at over 20 goals and 45 points. Very similar to Strome offense before joining the rangers. The biggest gripe I have with people is they say Dvo is what he is at this point, with no room for improvement offensively and that’s just not the case. I’m not saying he would magically walk in and put up the same # s as Strome either. He likely wouldn’t, because as you mentioned, he’s probably won’t see the PP time strome receives.
But 20-25 goals and 50-55 pts centering panarin and Blais/Kakko/Kravtsov while playing every other facet of the game better then Strome is certainly a possibility. That’s an upgrade if you ask me.
It’s water under the bridge now. He’s a Hab. The chance has passed us by. I would shift my Focus to Robert Thomas now. He’s still young and cheap enough and ready to break out. Blues are pretty deep an fwd and I think Kyriou has passed him on the depth chart. I’d try like he’ll to pry him out of St louis

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I hope nobody is surprised when we start the season as we are.

 

[Fitzy]

Sometimes you just need warm bodies. Remember Jerret Smith?

I actually do not. I remember Jeff Malcolm though

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I actually do not. I remember Jeff Malcolm though

That's Hartford Wolf Pack goalie coach Jeff Malcolm

 

[Fitzy]

That's Hartford Wolf Pack goalie coach Jeff Malcolm

Yeah they kept him in the family

 

[bobbop]

I love the idea of having so many competent defensemen go to camp. The cream will rise to the top. The bigest weakness on last years team was the bottom pair on defense and if this cures that problem, we are already assured of being that much better this year.

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[Ola]

I never thought of Trivigno as the kind of player to be able to adjust to NHL hockey.

The mullet is definitely high NHL class, and good hands:

 

[Ola]

In my opinion, it's a league bias that a player who is 'physically ready' but not hockey-smarts ready for the NHL can make the adjustment easier than a player who is vice versa, which isn't always necessarily accurate.

Chytil was 6'2" and could skate well so everyone just thought the mental aspect would develop naturally if we threw him into the deep end of the pool.

Yeah, and for many players — that played men’s hockey from when they were 16-17 y/o — it’s important to get to a level when they can play hockey with the puck on their stick and some time at their hands every now and then.

Chytil was starting to get there, one more year in the Czech rep and he would have been there. Aho was the same, he really broke out and got that time with the puck in Finland before going to Carolina. He was ready. It’s of course speculation, but if Aho was a top 3 pick and rushed to EDM when he was 18 and then seen as a mega disappointment because he wasn’t a star right away — how good is he today?

 

[huerter]

MSG network celebrating the only synergy we have amongst our forwards by running a Strome/Panarin marathon. You love to see it.

 

[egelband]

In my opinion, it's a league bias that a player who is 'physically ready' but not hockey-smarts ready for the NHL can make the adjustment easier than a player who is vice versa, which isn't always necessarily accurate.

Chytil was 6'2" and could skate well so everyone just thought the mental aspect would develop naturally if we threw him into the deep end of the pool.

My impression of Chytil is that he’s a pretty tough kids mentally. His body language appears pretty consistent to me.
I totally agree that leaving players home to develop is often the right choice. And I agree the Rangers need to take a long look in the mirror in regard to how they approach player development.
But in Chytil’s case, I think bringing him over early was probably the right choice.

 

[egelband]

So, guessing this is going the route of LoHud? I'm not paying for it, just like I'm not paying for LoHud. I mean, I don't know what the answer is, but the only thing I read in the Post is LB.

I’d pay for a bundle. I know we’re cutting the cord broadly. But in this kind of case, I think bundling makes sense. Apple News is probably the right business model.