Weekes: Something happening with Markstrom?

[Smitty426]

Osgood was an average goalie - he was good enough to backstop an elite team to the cup, by no means was he considered elite.

If you watched even one game of the Avs cup run you'd know that Kuemper let in at least 1-2 softies a game - the team was just a wagon and won in spite of one-eyed Kuemper in the postseason who posted a .902 SV%. The only reason he had a .921 year was again, because he was on by far the best team in the league. Francouz posted a .916 SV% and you can just compare Grubuaer's stats while he was on the Avs and after he left.

You absolutely don't need elite goaltending to win a cup, there is no one formula. Of course elite goaltending helps and if you don't have it the team better be elite in every other area. But with the current goaltending talent (or lack there of) it simply makes more sense to spend as little as possible for average goaltending and make the rest of your team as strong as possible.

Devs fans won't agree, buy you said avg

 

[Thallis]

Yes, it's hard to imagine how shocking it must have been for the Capitals organization and fanbase when Braden Holtby, the 2016 Vezina Trophy winner, came out of absolutely nowhere to deliver high end goaltending in the 2018 Stanley Cup playoffs, what a shocker.

Or who could forget when Chris Osgood, a goaltender who only managed 401 career wins somehow stumbled ass backwards into a Stanley Cup. And, then in 2008, he does it again and then the next year, just to underline what a total fluke it was, he falls back to reality in the playoffs of and only goes 15-8 in the postseason with an embarrassing .926 save percentage and a humiliating 2.01 goals against. Talking about crashing back down to reality after being a total flash in the pan.

Darcy Kuemper is another clever example - you clearly know your stuff. It was absolutely shocking when he backstopped Colorado to a Stanley Cup cause he came out of nowhere! He had a .921 save percentage for the Avalanche, but just to prove to you how "voodoo" goalies are, do you know what he did the three seasons before that .921 year? He struggled posting .928 and .925 and a season at .907. When you see these embarrassing numbers, you're kind of shocked that suddenly he's a good goalie out nowhere.

Well thought out post!

Now tell me how the other 3 goalies did for Washington during Holtby's tenure, and Osgood, too, while you're at it. And tell me how many years as a starter Kuemper had played before Colorado. Wowie, it's almost like playing behind well constructed teams benefits a goalie's chances at winning! Who would have thought that?

You're out to lunch if you think any of those guys I mentioned are or were in the elite class of goaltenders at the time. The difference between Holtby, Varlamov, Kuemper, and Grubauer are frankly negligible and it showed on all . There's a very clear separation between them and the elite at the time: Luongo, Lundqvist, Rask, Quick, & Price. Vasilevsky and Quick are the only true long term elite, high dollar goalies who have won the cup since the lockout. There's a reason for that.

 

[Reinhart]

Any GM who knows that Markstrom only wants to go to certain teams will not be offering that. They will know that they have the Flames over a barrel and will only offer a minimum in return. Maybe a first and cap dump. Maybe a second and mid-range prospect. It won't be much that's for sure.

Sure.. except that the market for goalies is crazy this year given who is available on that market, and what the calibre/aspirations of the teams who absolutely need goaltending are. If you fancy yourself as a contender this year, then it is a complete and total waste of full year of your contention window to not have a reliable goalie.

Plus, Calgary doesn't HAVE to move Markstrom. Markstrom is happy in Calgary. He wants to stay here. He is signed for 2 more seasons on the Flames. They don't even have to move a goalie - if worse comes to worst and Vladar doesn't have any trade value at all, he can play on the Wranglers.

Markstrom will garner a good return, or he won't move.

 

[Mike Jones]

Markstrom will garner a good return, or he won't move.

If only it was that simple.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

This is from a “insider” on CalgaryPuck (who definitely has a source somewhere in the org, he gets things right often):



So it seems that he wants to go somewhere that has a chance of competing for the next 1.5 seasons (Carolina, Toronto, NJ?)

I wouldn't say he "wants to" as it's more he is open to the idea. The team is approaching him, not the other way around

 

[Reinhart]

If only it was that simple.

What's complicated? I guess I am missing it. Flames have him for two more seasons after this, and he is an elite-level goalie. They do not have to move him.

If I am Conroy, I am sitting back and taking calls on him, and I am just going to repeat to every team that calls: "Give me an offer that interests me enough to approach my goalie and see if he is willing to waive to go to you." There isn't just one team that needs a goalie - if the offer isn't good enough, I am positive Conroy is happy keeping his elite-level goalie.

 

[Mike Jones]

I am positive Conroy is happy keeping his elite-level goalie.

It's good you have such inside knowledge.

The reason I think the Flames would be happy to keep him is his cap hit. Rebuilding teams need to be at least up to the cap floor and Markstrom's is one that can help them do that.

But if he doesn't want to be on a rebuilding team then all bets are off and Conroy has his work cut out for him - managing 7 other trades and all.

 

[The Grinder]

Calgary is in a tough position no way to slice it. The Huberdeau contract and to a lesser extent the Kadri one, sorta forces their hand to compete, but they are stuck in the squishy middle. I don’t think anyone would consider them contenders this season, and they are due to lose more talent in the off-season. Why hold on to Markstrom if you can get a decent package? Why set a trade expectation that won’t be met to only stubbornly hold onto him and get nothing? If Calgary fans are ok with that situation that’s fine, but seems to me they should start stock piling what assets they can.

But like I said it’s a tough position and I see both perspectives. I don’t think it’s a no brainer either way.

 

[Nanuuk]

Calgary is not in a tough position. They're getting good mileage out of the more recent acquisitions, Kadri, Sharangovich, Weegar, and increasingly (but nowhere near 10.5M) from Huberdeau.

They have integrated two rookies into the line-up. One, Zary, will be in the Calder discussion before all is said and done. The other, Pospisil, brings an intangible to the game. Together they have lit a fire under Kadri.

The Flames have a very strong AHL club with a few more that are knocking on the door in goaltender Wolf, LW Pelletier, and RW Coronato.

Markstrom is that #1 goalie that the Flames lacked for many years. He will not be traded unless he indicates a desire to go elsewhere. And he hasn't. He likes being the mentor to Vladar and has recently got married and is a new Dad.

Life is good for him right now. And there is zero pressure on the Flames to move him.

Unless a team gives them an offer they can't refuse.

 

[Mike Jones]

Calgary is in a tough position no way to slice it. The Huberdeau contract and to a lesser extent the Kadri one, sorta forces their hand to compete,

Not really. Any GM that can't work around those two shouldn't be in the league. And besides, the team can use their cap hits to stay at the cap floor while the rebuild happens. This is also a good reason to keep Markstrom around. Those three contracts should help the Flames reach the floor while all the trades and rebuilding happens.

 

[The Grinder]

Not really. Any GM that can't work around those two shouldn't be in the league. And besides, the team can use their cap hits to stay at the cap floor while the rebuild happens. This is also a good reason to keep Markstrom around. Those three contracts should help the Flames reach the floor while all the trades and rebuilding happens.

If I am GM I would be more concerned with acquiring assets than reaching the cap floor. Plus with the Huberdeau and Kadri contracts I don’t think that’s as big a factor as you believe it to be.

If a rebuild is happening as you infer getting something for Markstrom makes sense.

 

[Mike Jones]

If I am GM I would be more concerned with acquiring assets than reaching the cap floor.

The cap floor is a non-negotiable. Reaching it takes priority. I don't know what happens if a team falls below it but I wouldn't want to take a chance and find out.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Calgary is not in a tough position. They're getting good mileage out of the more recent acquisitions, Kadri, Sharangovich, Weegar, and increasingly (but nowhere near 10.5M) from Huberdeau.

They have integrated two rookies into the line-up. One, Zary, will be in the Calder discussion before all is said and done. The other, Pospisil, brings an intangible to the game. Together they have lit a fire under Kadri.

The Flames have a very strong AHL club with a few more that are knocking on the door in goaltender Wolf, LW Pelletier, and RW Coronato.

Markstrom is that #1 goalie that the Flames lacked for many years. He will not be traded unless he indicates a desire to go elsewhere. And he hasn't. He likes being the mentor to Vladar and has recently got married and is a new Dad.

Life is good for him right now. And there is zero pressure on the Flames to move him.

Unless a team gives them an offer they can't refuse.

I mean that’s all very touching (apart from Zary being in the calder running which is very unlikely).

But at the end of the day, unless you think the Flames are close to being a contending team which they probably aren’t, Markstrom has way more value to the flames as a trade piece than staying. Goalies are pretty unpredictable in general and he’s about to be 34 years old. Even if he plays as well as he has been playing for the duration of his contract the flames aren’t likely anywhere near contenders and then he’s either leaving or staying around and eventually falling off on an overpaid contract.

Given his play, now (before deadline) would be the perfect time to trade him.

 

[Xirik]

Calgary getting dragged into the playoffs or just missing it. The life of the Flames for the past 14 years.

 

[Mike Jones]

Calgary getting dragged into the playoffs or just missing it. The life of the Flames for the past 14 years.

Which is why now is the perfect time to clear the deck, start over, and build something sustainable that will have a chance of legitimately competing for the cup.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Calgary getting dragged into the playoffs or just missing it. The life of the Flames for the past 14 years.

The trap a lot of teams get into. Close enough to not fully rebuild but not close enough to actually be a contender.

I understand it from a gm perspective. Unless they have a shit ton of support. Good rebuilds take a long time, fans get impatient, and the gm often times loses their job often to the benefit of the next guy.

It’s not impossible but very hard to turn a middle of the pack team into a contender. Even if they don’t want to go into a full rebuild it definitely makes more sense for Calgary ti trade a 34 year old Markstrom while his value is at its highest

 

[Nanuuk]

I mean that’s all very touching (apart from Zary being in the calder running which is very unlikely).

But at the end of the day, unless you think the Flames are close to being a contending team which they probably aren’t, Markstrom has way more value to the flames as a trade piece than staying. Goalies are pretty unpredictable in general and he’s about to be 34 years old. Even if he plays as well as he has been playing for the duration of his contract the flames aren’t likely anywhere near contenders and then he’s either leaving or staying around and eventually falling off on an overpaid contract.

Given his play, now (before deadline) would be the perfect time to trade him.

Just as contending as any other team vying to make the play-offs. Trading a number 1, our first true number 1 since Kiprusof, would trigger a re-build. And we'd be hoping Wolf could easily become an NHL number 1.

When Calgary trades Lindholm, and I hope they don't, they will be looking for a one C. Lindholm was perhaps the first 1C we've had in decades.

That will be tough enough, but it won't trigger a re-build.

Calgary is not going into a re-build despite all the caterwauling going on out there or angst over monetizing our current assets into some future can't miss draft picks.

Markstrom will be value for the duration of his contract whether he is a Flame or not. If he chooses to stay good. If he'd like to go to a 'contending' team

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Just as contending as any other team vying to make the play-offs. Trading a number 1, our first true number 1 since Kiprusof, would trigger a re-build. And we'd be hoping Wolf could easily become an NHL number 1.

When Calgary trades Lindholm, and I hope they don't, they will be looking for a one C. Lindholm was perhaps the first 1C we've had in decades.

That will be tough enough, but it won't trigger a re-build.

Calgary is not going into a re-build despite all the caterwauling going on out there or angst over monetizing our current assets into some future can't miss draft picks.

Markstrom will be value for the duration of his contract whether he is a Flame or not. If he chooses to stay good. If he'd like to go to a 'contending' team

He doesn’t choose whether he stays good.

Second, whether you agree with it or not most people believe Calgary should go into a rebuild. They simply don’t have the talent and pieces. As discussed above they fall into the middle of the pack trap as they’ve been for a while. It’s really hard to become a contending team from where they are unless they strip things down.

You mentioned that Lindholm is the first 1C they’ve had in decades. I wonder why that is. Because they’ve been a middle of the pack team for so long. 1C’s are hard to get and the best way to get them is usually through high draft picks.


Lindholm was a 5th overall pick. Who’s the last top 10 pick Calgary had? Matthew Tkachuk! Are we seeing a theme here.

You’re talking about not wanting to get rid of players because you haven’t had many players like them without realizing that is because they’ve been so hesitant to fully clean house and rebuild for so long.

 

[Tuna99]

Ott: Markstom, Lindholm
Cal: Norris, 1st round pick 2024 (Boston), Alex Formenton, Tyler Kleven

Sens extend Lindy 7.$8.5

 

[My3Sons]

If this was going to happen would it have happened already? Wasn’t NJ reported to have called about Markstrom much earlier in the season or maybe even before the season? Likely there was no deal to be made. Calgary won’t take futures and NJ isn’t going to deplete its NHL roster.

 

[Forge]

If this was going to happen would it have happened already? Wasn’t NJ reported to have called about Markstrom much earlier in the season or maybe even before the season? Likely there was no deal to be made. Calgary won’t take futures and NJ isn’t going to deplete its NHL roster.

Just based on Weekes posting the same thing for Elvis at the same time the report dropped that they'll try and find a trade for him, I'm assuming that the only thing that happened here was that it became known that Calgary had reached out to markstrom about waiving and that's what this is about

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Ott: Markstom, Lindholm
Cal: Norris, 1st round pick 2024 (Boston), Alex Formenton, Tyler Kleven

Sens extend Lindy 7.$8.5

Norris is on a bad contract and overrated and Formenton come on

Ottawa might not be a terrible trading partner however considering their quantity of young talent and picks as well as their desperation to improve.

 

[Xirik]

The trap a lot of teams get into. Close enough to not fully rebuild but not close enough to actually be a contender.

I understand it from a gm perspective. Unless they have a shit ton of support. Good rebuilds take a long time, fans get impatient, and the gm often times loses their job often to the benefit of the next guy.

It’s not impossible but very hard to turn a middle of the pack team into a contender. Even if they don’t want to go into a full rebuild it definitely makes more sense for Calgary ti trade a 34 year old Markstrom while his value is at its highest

Not to mention most Canadian teams GM's and owners can get away with a mediocre product because the customers will show up no mater what. If fan apathy never hits a boiling point where fans boycott or stay home then there is no impetus for the organization to do anything different.

 

[Nanuuk]

He doesn’t choose whether he stays good.

Second, whether you agree with it or not most people believe Calgary should go into a rebuild. They simply don’t have the talent and pieces. As discussed above they fall into the middle of the pack trap as they’ve been for a while. It’s really hard to become a contending team from where they are unless they strip things down.

You mentioned that Lindholm is the first 1C they’ve had in decades. I wonder why that is. Because they’ve been a middle of the pack team for so long. 1C’s are hard to get and the best way to get them is usually through high draft picks.


Lindholm was a 5th overall pick. Who’s the last top 10 pick Calgary had? Matthew Tkachuk! Are we seeing a theme here.

You’re talking about not wanting to get rid of players because you haven’t had many players like them without realizing that is because they’ve been so hesitant to fully clean house and rebuild for so long.

"Most people"? Was there a vote or is this coming from an echo chamber?

 

[Some Other Flame]

Ott: Markstom, Lindholm
Cal: Norris, 1st round pick 2024 (Boston), Alex Formenton, Tyler Kleven

Sens extend Lindy 7.$8.5

lol @ trying to include Formenton

Replace Norris with Chabot and Formenton with another actually decent prospect and I'd probably do it