Rumor: Someone would offer Bo Horvat 9 mil?

[Detroit Knights]

Interested to hear everyone's take.



Not sure if 9 million is the way to go, but him at 2C, bring Copp to 3C...I think the roster gets rounded out perfectly. I like Suter, but take him out to keep Berggren, send Czarnick and veleno down (or make him winger?) to make room for bertuzzi when he gets back and soderblom?

Could have something here. And I know what some of you will say "Copp would be an overpaid 3C". Yeah this year he would be and maybe next year, but come 2 years from now, the cap is supposedly going to 90 mil and with all of our young talent with low salary, it could be feasible, yes?

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[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I can just imagine Bo’s agent tossing that number out there

 

[Detroit Knights]

Interested to hear everyone's take.



Not sure if 9 million is the way to go, but him at 2C, bring Copp to 3C...I think the roster gets rounded out perfectly. I like Suter, but take him out to keep Berggren, send Czarnick and veleno down (or make him winger?) to make room for bertuzzi when he gets back and soderblom?

Could have something here. And I know what some of you will say "Copp would be an overpaid 3C". Yeah this year he would be and maybe next year, but come 2 years from now, the cap is supposedly going to 90 mil and with all of our young talent with low salary, it could be feasible, yes?

I wouldn't even be partial to maybe a bertuzzi + Suter + veleno for Signed Horvat and a late pick trade?

Won't need Veleno anymore, because we have our center depth (including rasmussen here), I love bertuzzi, but his injury's are adding up, and suter would be another center for them to utiize.

I say all this knowing it is an underpaymenet, but if Horvat want's out like it seems to be reported, then his trade value has to go down. Throw in a pick of ours and take out their late pick if needed.

Yzerman get's a solid core (raymond, kubalik[?], seider, larkin, etc.) and adds another in Horvat with Copp likely being another core piece.

I can just imagine Bo’s agent tossing that number out there

I would probably go with 7x7 like Kadri. Gets him to 34-35 and doesn't kill our salary cap at all

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah 9 million isn't that much anymore. Players will earn 15+ million soon.

 

[norrisnick]

Marco Kasper. We don't need to drop a mint on a 2nd line center.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

JT Miller got 7 and he’s a better player in just about every area. Horvat scoring at a 40+ goal pace in a contract year doesn’t mean he’s all of the sudden worth more when the rest of his career is as a 50-60 point guy.

Marco Kasper. We don't need to drop a mint on a 2nd line center.

I’d bet money that Kasper comes in with a 40-50 point rookie campaign next season.

 

[Ezekial]

Consistent 60 point 2 way center who will be a fresh 28 when his next deal is signed? I can see it. I think it's too much, but could see it happen in an open market.

Bo Horvat is a very good player, not elite, but very good.

 

[norrisnick]

JT Miller got 7 and he’s a better player in just about every area. Horvat scoring at a 40+ goal pace in a contract year doesn’t mean he’s all of the sudden worth more when the rest of his career is as a 50-60 point guy.

I’d bet money that Kasper comes in with a 40-50 point rookie campaign next season.

I smile when people say he might be a Larkin-lite if he hits his ceiling. He's a MF Larkin-heavy if he fully pans out.

 

[Ezekial]

JT Miller got 7 and he’s a better player in just about every area. Horvat scoring at a 40+ goal pace in a contract year doesn’t mean he’s all of the sudden worth more when the rest of his career is as a 50-60 point guy.



I’d bet money that Kasper comes in with a 40-50 point rookie campaign next season.

JT Miller got 8 and I'd say he's a better offensive player but I'd rather have Bo Horvat as my 2C on the same deal if I had a choice.

 

[norrisnick]

Consistent 60 point 2 way center who will be a fresh 28 when his next deal is signed? I can see it. I think it's too much, but could see it happen in an open market.

Bo Horvat is a very good player, not elite, but very good.

Bo Horvat is a 60pt center the same way that Mary Lapointe was a 50pt banger.

Miller at 8
Horvat at 9
Kasper at ELC

Hm...

 

[Henkka]

Quite sure it's not Yzerman who would do that.

But somebody would.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I smile when people say he might be a Larkin-lite if he hits his ceiling. He's a MF Larkin-heavy if he fully pans out.

He's Larkin but thicc.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I smile when people say he might be a Larkin-lite if he hits his ceiling. He's a MF Larkin-heavy if he fully pans out.

Everything I’ve seen of his SHL and CHL season so far still makes me think Kesler. But I think it will be 70+ point Selke Kesler instead of Anaheim Kesler. Or maybe a meaner version of Matty Beniers in Seattle. There’s a lot of similarities in their games.

How dogged he is chasing the puck, how he carries through the middle and distributes, how he rags the puck in offensive and defensive zones all make me think he’s a for sure top 6. How much he refines his shot and stickhandling will determine if he’s going to be an upper tier 2nd liner or a top 16 first line center.

 

[Ezekial]

Bo Horvat is a 60pt center the same way that Mary Lapointe was a 50pt banger.

Miller at 8
Horvat at 9
Kasper at ELC

Hm...

Idk what you're getting at with this post, he is a 60 point 2 way center and I never said we should acquire him?

 

[norrisnick]

Idk what you're getting at with this post, he is a 60 point 2 way center and I never said we should acquire him?

Hitting 61 once doesn't make someone a consistent 60pt center. Marty (typo'd the Mary) had one big year as well.

The other part was HF's weird way of combining posts if they are sent back to back. Should at least add lines through them.

 

[Henkka]

Consistent 60 point 2 way center who will be a fresh 28 when his next deal is signed? I can see it. I think it's too much, but could see it happen in an open market.

Bo Horvat is a very good player, not elite, but very good.

Consistent 60 points center...

...who has socred +60 points once on his career, 61 points at 82 games at season 2018-19.

He looks as consistent Center as Andrew Copp or Vince Trocheck is.

points per game:
--------------
Horvat 0.78
Trocheck 0.72
Copp 0.71

Since january 2021. All +150 games.

With those ppg numbers, Horvat is maybe ~10% better than Trockheck or Copp. They got 5.6M deals as UFAs from market. Horvat could be worth 6.5M with slighty more than 10%.

No one pays 9M.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Consistent 60 points center...

...who has socred +60 points once on his career, 61 points at 82 games at season 2018-19.

He looks as consistent Center as Andrew Copp is.

Horvat 0.78
Trocheck 0.72
Copp 0.71

Since january 2021. All +150 games.

With those ppg numbers, Horat is 10% better than Trockheck or Copp. They got 5.6M deals as UFAs from market. Horvat could be worth 6.5M with slighty more than 10%.

No one pays 9M.

I think someone is dumb enough. There usually is someone that stupid with cap space.

 

[Ezekial]

Hitting 61 once doesn't make someone a 60pt center. Marty (typo'd the Mary) had one big year as well.

Over the past 5 years (not including this one with 29 in 27), he has 249 points in 341 games, or .73 points per game, which is 60 points per 82 game season.

His highest ppg was .768 in that span, or 63 points in 82, his lowest was .6875 or 56.375 in 82. That is a very consistent player at ~60 points in an 82 game season.

But whatever I'm sure you'll quote me with some other semantical bullshit just to keep up the good fight.

Consistent 60 points center...

...who has socred +60 points once on his career, 61 points at 82 games at season 2018-19.

He looks as consistent Center as Andrew Copp or Vince Trocheck is.

points per game:
--------------
Horvat 0.78
Trocheck 0.72
Copp 0.71

Since january 2021. All +150 games.

With those ppg numbers, Horvat is maybe ~10% better than Trockheck or Copp. They got 5.6M deals as UFAs from market. Horvat could be worth 6.5M with slighty more than 10%.

No one pays 9M.

The king of rate stats in here talking about flat point totals.

You truly are a chameleon, Henkka.

 

[norrisnick]

Over the past 5 years (not including this one with 29 in 27), he has 249 points in 341 games, or .73 points per game, which is 60 points per 82 game season.

His highest ppg was .768 in that span, or 63 points in 82, his lowest was .6875 or 56.375 in 82. That is a very consistent player at ~60 points in an 82 game season.

But whatever I'm sure you'll quote me with some other semantical bullshit just to keep up the good fight.

I'm the anti-Henkka. Not a terribly big fan of could haves and should haves. Don't like to give players credit for games they didn't play and points they didn't score.

 

[Ezekial]

I'm the anti-Henkka. Not a terribly big fan of could haves and should haves. Don't like to give players credit for games they didn't play and points they didn't score.

I guess.

I consider Mackinnon a 100 point type player He's never hit 100 but has paced 108 since 2017 (361 game sample size). That type of consistency is way more impressive to me than a point total for a single season.


Edit: Also, I never gave Horvat any credit for points he never scored in games he never played in.
He had 249 points in 341 games - Those are all his points, it's just considering an average over an 82 game season in that span. 341 games is 4 full seasons of hockey games to draw from.

 

[Henkka]

I'm the anti-Henkka. Not a terribly big fan of could haves and should haves. Don't like to give players credit for games they didn't play and points they didn't score.

It's just ballparks. Quite easy mathematics.

There's quite big difference, if you go to pay 9M, when just slightly lesser guys got paid 5.625M.

At this season, Horvat is socring like mad, but again, it's one of those hot starts in millions of hot starts with 22% puck luck at shooting percentage. He has kind of 8 extra goals vs. his regular career shooting percentage (13,7%). All from inflated scoring on that worthless Pacific division.

You adjust that, and he is back at 0.78 points per game, whatever his 3-year or 5-year average is.

That's not a 9M player.

Is same or different people in here, who were accusing Andrew Copp as bad UFA deal, who are now seeing 9M Horvat as great UFA deal?

I hope not.

 

[Ezekial]

Exactly why I didn't include this season

Just to reiterate, I don't believe he is a 9 million dollar player. I just think someone could give him it.

 

[ThankGord]

Not worth 9. If we gave him 9 what would we have to give Larkin?

 

[Gniwder]

Not worth 9. If we gave him 9 what would we have to give Larkin?

Yeah, sign Larkin first. He'll want at least as much as Bo.

I think someone is dumb enough. There usually is someone that stupid with cap space.

Chicago, lol.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, sign Larkin first. He'll want at least as much as Bo.


Chicago, lol.

Chicago will be a basement team after Toews and Kane leave. I don’t think they make that move. They’re in full tear down mode.