Rumor: Someone would offer Bo Horvat 9 mil?

[Gniwder]

Chicago will be a basement team after Toews and Kane leave. I don’t think they make that move. They’re in full tear down mode.

Or they can sign Larkin and Horvat and build off of whatever pick they get this season.

Toews, Kane, AA, and Domi all UFA, clearing $27M in cap space

 

[Detroit Knights]

Marco Kasper. We don't need to drop a mint on a 2nd line center.
Can't we switch Copp to winger to compensate the addition of kasper when he is ready to get in a big role for the team though?

I understand we all want kasper to be good enough to center at least 2C come next year, but realistically, he needs a few seasons and that has copp staying in that role. Horvat would be a great addition for many reasons and he and larkin could coach up kasper when he gets here. That would be a hell of a center depth that we haven't had since what 2009? 2010?

 

[Holden Caufield]

Horvat is a great player. I’ve always wanted him to come ‘home’ to Detroit.

He is definitely better than the Trochek/Copp tier of centre.

But 9 million is too much long term.

 

[stillwater]

Every trade scenario starts with Bertuzzi (who's on an expiring contract), Zadina (who no one wants) or other throw away pieces that the Red Wings have like Suter or Erne etc ... it's hilarious that people believe other teams are just going to trade their stars here because that's what your mind is obsessed with at the moment.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Every trade scenario starts with Bertuzzi (who's on an expiring contract), Zadina (who no one wants) or other throw away pieces that the Red Wings have like Suter or Erne etc ... it's hilarious that people believe other teams are just going to trade their stars here because that's what your mind is obsessed with at the moment.

The difference is that his agent asked to talk to other team, meaning he wants out or is willing to leave. Lowers his trade value. This isn't the NBA when a player says they want out and still get a kings ransom for that player. NHL takes trade value seriously and most gm's that have the cap space and intelligence will see this is an opportunity to get a player that has a lower trade value because he wants out.

Bertuzzi is still a valuable piece because while he was playing this year, our record is actually quite good with him in, showing he makes a difference. Suter has shown he is a stable player and great on the PK (if only he could bury some of these PK breakaways hes gets...jesus), and veleno has increased his trade value exponentially. That's two centers that are ready to play now in good rolls and a winger that can make a difference.

I agree Zadina is worthless in a trade and would just be an add to get rid of him. That's why I didn't include him. If Horvat does a sign and trade to us, then up the anti by giving a couple of picks, like a second and a third or two 2nds. We won't need them AS MUCH when we have center depth squared away, our defense is great (especially what could be coming from AHL soon) and it looks like we have our clear #1 goalie and his successor in a couple years (cossa).

 

[Gniwder]

The difference is that his agent asked to talk to other team, meaning he wants out or is willing to leave. Lowers his trade value. This isn't the NBA when a player says they want out and still get a kings ransom for that player. NHL takes trade value seriously and most gm's that have the cap space and intelligence will see this is an opportunity to get a player that has a lower trade value because he wants out.

Bertuzzi is still a valuable piece because while he was playing this year, our record is actually quite good with him in, showing he makes a difference. Suter has shown he is a stable player and great on the PK (if only he could bury some of these PK breakaways hes gets...jesus), and veleno has increased his trade value exponentially. That's two centers that are ready to play now in good rolls and a winger that can make a difference.

I agree Zadina is worthless in a trade and would just be an add to get rid of him. That's why I didn't include him. If Horvat does a sign and trade to us, then up the anti by giving a couple of picks, like a second and a third or two 2nds. We won't need them AS MUCH when we have center depth squared away, our defense is great (especially what could be coming from AHL soon) and it looks like we have our clear #1 goalie and his successor in a couple years (cossa).

Vancouver is tight up against the salary cap, even if it does go up.

I think Myers is the player they wind up trading, but regardless they're looking for prospects and picks. I doubt they want salary back, whether directly or someone they need to re-sign like Bert. Myers contract next season is almost all signing bonus ($5M vs $1M salary), so someone will take him. Note: He's got a 10 team NTC.

 

[stillwater]

The difference is that his agent asked to talk to other team, meaning he wants out or is willing to leave. Lowers his trade value.

No, that's Brock Boeser's agent.

 

[Detroit Knights]

It's just ballparks. Quite easy mathematics.

There's quite big difference, if you go to pay 9M, when just slightly lesser guys got paid 5.625M.

At this season, Horvat is socring like mad, but again, it's one of those hot starts in millions of hot starts with 22% puck luck at shooting percentage. He has kind of 8 extra goals vs. his regular career shooting percentage (13,7%). All from inflated scoring on that worthless Pacific division.

You adjust that, and he is back at 0.78 points per game, whatever his 3-year or 5-year average is.

That's not a 9M player.

Is same or different people in here, who were accusing Andrew Copp as bad UFA deal, who are now seeing 9M Horvat as great UFA deal?

I hope not.

I agree he isn't a 9m player right now, especially since he is increasing output during a contract year (funny how that always happens).

I think 7x7 like the Kadri deal is suitable. We also have to remember what his array of players that he plays with now vs. ours. Can he do better with a kubalik, perron, raymond, larkin, seider, and hronek, or is he better at his current situation with boeser, jt miller, petterson, hughes, garland, OEL?

I honestly believe he would do better with what we offer than what VAN offers at this point in time. The direction of our team has a more or less straight line in the positive direction, whereas VAN has a roller coaster ride of emotions that no one knows how they are going to do from year to year.

 

[Holden Caufield]

No, that's Brock Boeser's agent.

Yeah saw a report on TSN that Boeser is likely going to be the first to go from Vancouver.

Said several teams want him and are in talks.
Just a hang up on if they can get Vancouver to eat a little salary cap on the way out.

 

[norrisnick]

Only way I see Horvat here is if he slots into whatever contract Yzerman had in mind to offer Bertuzzi (before the clusterf*** of this season of course) and Bo is cool with it. If there was a plan that saw us keep Dylan and Bertuzzi it could conceivably switch to Dylan and Horvat.

I wouldn't trade for him though. Just hope whoever does doesn't re-sign him.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I mean if it's Bertuzzi out and Horvat in type of thing, sure maybe.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Only way I see Horvat here is if he slots into whatever contract Yzerman had in mind to offer Bertuzzi (before the clusterf*** of this season of course) and Bo is cool with it. If there was a plan that saw us keep Dylan and Bertuzzi it could conceivably switch to Dylan and Horvat.

I wouldn't trade for him though. Just hope whoever does doesn't re-sign him.

When has that happened to a big-ish named player, the sign and don't trade? I honestly don't know if that ever happened. Usually when a player get's traded to another team and they have some type of famous name, they get signed almost immediately, no?

 

[norrisnick]

When has that happened to a big-ish named player, the sign and don't trade? I honestly don't know if that ever happened. Usually when a player get's traded to another team and they have some type of famous name, they get signed almost immediately, no?

Tkachuk was a rental and then re-signed with St Louis.

So was Perron.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Tkachuk was a rental and then re-signed with St Louis.

So was Perron.

Perron was never a big name star like player. He was always a rental/added top 6 depth.

tkachuk was 20 years ago, so I guess I didn't specify with someone more recent.

 

[stillwater]

SMH

 

[norrisnick]

Perron was never a big name star like player. He was always a rental/added top 6 depth.

tkachuk was 20 years ago, so I guess I didn't specify with someone more recent.

I mean... So's Horvat. On ice value wise. Check their resumes.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I mean... So's Horvat. On ice value wise. Check their resumes

Perron had 19 points in edmonton before being traded as a rental to pittsburgh and finished with 41 points in 2014-2015. In 2015-2016 he had 36 points in 71 games playing for pit and anaheim.

Horvat has had above 40 points every season since 2016-2017, except for covid year where he had 39 points in 56 games. That's 57 points or so in a full season.

I don't see your argument because what I see is one is rental and one isn't. Perron fit into a lineup that needed an agitator and someone that can shoot if it came down to dire times, while having high PIM before other than covid year. Horvat has been integral in every season for production and has lived up to it, to a point.

So on ice value wise, Horvat is exponentially more important than Perron (not including Perron's veteran presence because I believe he does have good experience to lean on) and would not be a rental player for most if not all teams.

 

[Henkka]

I mean if it's Bertuzzi out and Horvat in type of thing, sure maybe.

Think this is the trade I would like.

Get Bertuzzi type of Center, probably losing nothing on the long run, but getting that Winger/Center unbalance finally fixed. I could send Veleno away at the same trade.

And signing Horvat for 6.5M-7.0M long-term, what he is worth.

No one will sign him for 9M, that's for sure. Especially not Steve Yzerman.

 

[stillwater]

Perron was never a big name star like player. He was always a rental/added top 6 depth.

tkachuk was 20 years ago, so I guess I didn't specify with someone more recent.

Tkachuk has two sons in the NHL now, Percy and Sisyphus.

 

[Snuggs]

Marco Kasper. We don't need to drop a mint on a 2nd line center.
Can't we switch Copp to winger to compensate the addition of kasper when he is ready to get in a big role for the team though?

I understand we all want kasper to be good enough to center at least 2C come next year, but realistically, he needs a few seasons and that has copp staying in that role. Horvat would be a great addition for many reasons and he and larkin could coach up kasper when he gets here. That would be a hell of a center depth that we haven't had since what 2009? 2010?

Crowning Kasper already eh? Idk, I like him and think it's a little scary just... giving him the role.

Horvat isn't a bad idea imo, especailly if Larkin can be resigned. Larkin/Horvat/Copp/Kasper/Rasmussen is a lot of depth up the middle. I don't love the idea of 9 million. Thinking 8.5-7 million multi year is what we end up seeing.

Bertuzzi has to go the other way imo, Idk what else has to be involved, I'd assume our 1st round pick( Which if we're trading for Horvat I assume it'll be a playoff type 1st rdp vs a lottery pick. ) Hard to say what the filler would look like for the Red Wings/Yzerman to be cool with this deal plus the money.

 

[Henkka]

Crowning Kasper already eh? Idk, I like him and think it's a little scary just... giving him the role.

If we get Horvat I could see that Kasper will get Center position full time after maybe 4 NHL seasons, until Copp is gone.

2022-2023 season:
Larkin 26-year-old
Horvat 27
Copp 28
Rasmussen 23
--------------
(Veleno 22, don't see him at DET if we get extra legit center)
Kasper 18... maybe next year at NHL, or later.

After 2026-27 season, when Copp is gone:
Larkin 30
Horvat 31
Kasper 22
Rasmussen 27

Maybe Kasper goes his ELC trough as a winger, when Copp is alongside with him and some takes with Copp as a winger. 5 Centers, everybody will get taste in the middle when there's injuries, but the Kasper mostly on wing, if all vets are heatlhy.

Then, maybe as 22-year old, when Copp is gone after 2026-27, Kasper could be taking the 2nd-3rd line Center duties.

 

[lidstromiscool]

I would pass, not sure if Larkin and Horvat each making 9+ for the next 6 years is good enough to win a cup

 

[Winger98]

I'd be a bit surprised to see Horvat pull $9m from someone. I don't think he'll play up to that, and it would take quite a combination of a team really needing a center, having cap space, and being close enough to decent to make the signing worthwhile. Just a quick look and Columbus could maybe fit. This is if Horvat won't solely chase the money. I mean, there's always a chance someone like Arizona will say to hell with it and throw some big numbers at him just because they need guys.

I think something around $7m is more likely.

On the Kaspar front, I'd expect him to come in and play wing for a year or two. He might be the answer long term at 2C, but for now I think that answer is Copp, Ras, or someone we don't have yet.

 

[gritdash60]

Im so glad Yzerman is the GM and not Holland, now i don't have to worry if they sign Horvat for 9M AAV.

Edit: What i think if we are talking about a cup run, is some drafted or insane steal on a trade kid to be the wings 1C. We REALLY don't need Horvat, Larkin already has his role covered. The question is if Larkin is enough as 1C to go for cup, which im not sure about.

To me 1C needs to be elite for a run for the cup, who has won it without if you don't count ROR who i think isnt/wasnt one. Wings already got the 1D, possibly a second one in the pipeline. Steviebongrips needs to figure how he can get a 1C if he doesn't trust Larkin gets it done, which i dont.

And this all with saying that i love Larkin, and i love that he has the C in his chest i just dont see him as the star center that carries a team to the cup.

This post will most likely piss some people off and doesnt make sense to some, im sorry english still isnt my first language and this is coming straight from my drunk brain no censor.

 

[Go Wings]

Yes if Larkin decides he doesn't want to sign with Detroit I could see us signing Horvat at his replacement.