Someone pointed this out - BS!

[canucks666]

also don't forget - this wasn't originally the "world cup"


this is the new name for, drum roll, the CANADA cup. That's where you got to see the greatest stars of the world - there - not the olympics. It was the greatest hockey competition for decades.

 

[The Legend]

I don't find much to wet the panties about.

This is Canada's tournament, designed to their advantages. Nothing new there.

Then I guess the Olympics is designed to Canada's advantage also? How about the World Championships, senior and junior, in which Canada is always in contention. It seems as though even the tournaments designed to European advantages, are still mostly dominated by north american teams. No one ever complains when tournaments are in Europe, on european ice surfaces, with european rules, designed to those who played the game that way, ie: Europeans, not North Americans.

 

[Le Golie]

I'm still livid about the US having every game at home during the last Olympics.

 

[Kronblom]

All these european players play their games on NHL Ice Rinks in the year. Hockey is the most popular sport in Canada. Why would the NHL want Canada to win the tournament? You and the people who constantly state that Canada is wanted to win by the NHL fail to give a reason for it. Home Ice Advantage? It doesn't matter if Canada doesn't bid for the world championships, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the European countries always host the tournament, have international referees giving THEM the benefit of the calls, and still can't win with any sort of consistency.

Some of those "international" referees are canadian and american. They assign 10 refs for the tournament, usually one from each of the "big" countries.

But as for the Wold Cup - I would have liked them to put Russia in the European group this time. A World Cup-game played in Moscow would give this tournament a bit more credibility in Europe.

 

[El_Loco_Avs]

The tournament isn't hosted by "the European countries".

Whether it's in Finland or in Canada, Slovakia is away all the same.

Exactly.



But this cup is just a international championship with the North American rules, and the World Championship is the one with the international rules. That's it, no need to complain and whine about it.

 

[Macman]

The tournament isn't hosted by "the European countries".

Whether it's in Finland or in Canada, Slovakia is away all the same.

Every tournament has a home team, there's no getting around that fact. This tournament is actually fairer than most in that every country except Slovakia and Russia are getting a chance to play some games at home.

I don't know what some people want. Canada gave the hockey world its first opportunity to bring all its best players to a tournament when it formed the Canada Cup and all we've heard since from a lot of Europeans is how Canada cheats but never gives an example of exactly how. How home ice favours Canada, despite the fact that no country has one a world championship as host since the days of stacked Soviet teams playing nobodies from Canada. And the most ridiculous one of all: how the a U.S. based NHL league desperate to create more fans in the U.S. somehow wants Canada to win.

The fact is, folks, Canada wins the majority of best-on-best tournaments because we have the best and deepest pool of players to chose from. No conspiracies. No cheating. Just talent.
.

 

[Macman]

This tournament is bull$hit.

Canada organized it simply to win it, which includes referees favoring them as much as possible and of course, home ice advantage!

Then stop watching it, get off these boards and stop lining up your excuses in advance. I'll bet you were pretty excited by this "bull" tournament after Russia's win over the States. Just like the Soviets players practically peed their pants with excitement after the '81 win. I never saw a Soviet team that excited after a winning world or Olympic gold. They understood how "bull" the tournament was.

 

[Kronblom]

Every tournament has a home team, there's no getting around that fact. This tournament is actually fairer than most in that every country except Slovakia and Russia are getting a chance to play some games at home.

I don't know what some people want. Canada gave the hockey world its first opportunity to bring all its best players to a tournament when it formed the Canada Cup and all we've heard since from a lot of Europeans is how Canada cheats but never gives an example of exactly how. How home ice favours Canada, despite the fact that no country has one a world championship as host since the days of stacked Soviet teams playing nobodies from Canada. And the most ridiculous one of all: how the a U.S. based NHL league desperate to create more fans in the U.S. somehow wants Canada to win.

The fact is, folks, Canada wins the majority of best-on-best tournaments because we have the best and deepest pool of players to chose from. No conspiracies. No cheating. Just talent.
.

So you agree to the fact that the reason this tournament existst is to promote the NHL in USA, (and make money)?

 

[Kronblom]

Then stop watching it, get off these boards and stop lining up your excuses in advance. I'll bet you were pretty excited by this "bull" tournament after Russia's win over the States. Just like the Soviets players practically peed their pants with excitement after the '81 win. I never saw a Soviet team that excited after a winning world or Olympic gold. They understood how "bull" the tournament was.

I bet they were thrilled because they beat Canada on canadian soil, the tournament itself was perhaps not that important.

 

[Slay]

How fair is it that every world championship ever played has been played in Europe and on big ice, or that every Olympics has been on big ice? That's not very fair to North Americans, but them's the rules for those tournaments and these are the rules for this one.

Hm and please tell me where do Fedorov, Bondra, Jagr, Kovalev, Forsberg, Sundin and many others european players play for many years? isn't in NHL? isn't on small ice rinks? European players face the same adaptation problems when they come to play in Europe. So please stop it.

Home Ice Advantage? It doesn't matter if Canada doesn't bid for the world championships, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the European countries always host the tournament

Sounds like there is some country called "European country" and it always host the tornament. And of course Finland, Sweden, Chech... feel themeselfes hosts when the tourney is hosted let's say in Germany, but only Canada feels themselfes very very uncomfortly: "o holy something! it is Europe! it is so crappy here! crappy rinks, crappy refs - everything againt us! we'll better be playing in Canada Cup with our kewl "meant to be" small ice rinks, home refs and loud fans!"
You know that's Canada's choice do not host the tourney. Be more open and then maybe there won't be such negative attitude to NHL and the tourneys organized by NHL.

Why would the NHL want Canada to win the tournament? You and the people who constantly state that Canada is wanted to win by the NHL fail to give a reason for it.

"It is all about the money" I don't think that now this tourney is to favor Canada. It's to favor USA or Canada. After all NHL is ruled by Americans and Canadians and the tourney is created for the North American public that pays and wants to see the show with their teams in central role. And trust me organizers will try to not allow that Canada and USA would fall to get through the quarter-final or semi-final. That would be simply disaster for organizers. They have instruments for pushing through referees, for sure, if something goes wrong they can help here and there a little, in key moments, that the team overcome hard minutes and bring the victory home, at all costs. IMHO Canada or USA in the final of the tournament would be fine for organizers. Though nothing is meant to be, and we cannot know the final result.

You won't see such attitude from organizers in favor to someone at World Championships and Olimpics under IIHF rules.

 

[kjri]

I don't know what some people want. Canada gave the hockey world its first opportunity to bring all its best players to a tournament when it formed the Canada Cup and all we've heard since from a lot of Europeans is how Canada cheats but never gives an example of exactly how.
.

Be honest, 1987 was not so nice. The schedule, referees were all for Canada's benefit and against the soviets. This tournament has a history there of Alan Eagleson's "organization" to get Canada the victory. I'm not saying that this tournament has overall been "fixed" or even unfair, but (at least) in 1987 the soviets were given a bad deal.

 

[Macman]

So you agree to the fact that the reason this tournament existst is to promote the NHL in USA, (and make money)?

No I don't. If the tournament existed to promote hockey in the U.S. it would be played in the U.S. The tournament was created out of Canadian frustration at not having our best players facing the world's best and as a financial offshoot to help build the players' pension plan.

 

[Macman]

I bet they were thrilled because they beat Canada on canadian soil, the tournament itself was perhaps not that important.

So the Soviets were more thrilled by beating amateur teams at the world championships and Olympics than by beating beating Gretzky, Potvin, Lafleur and the best of the rest in the world? Sure. The Soviets never celebrated any win like they celebrated that night. They knew the signifigance.

 

[Macman]

Be honest, 1987 was not so nice. The schedule, referees were all for Canada's benefit and against the soviets. This tournament has a history there of Alan Eagleson's "organization" to get Canada the victory. I'm not saying that this tournament has overall been "fixed" or even unfair, but (at least) in 1987 the soviets were given a bad deal.

What was the bad deal? It was a great, evenly played final. The referee, as I recall, was American. There were missed calls on both sides, as there always are in games. Yes, there was a home team, but there always is. Lame excuses.

I don't doubt that Russian fans long for the days of stacked Soviet teams beating the crap out of inferior amateur opponents at the world and Olympics, but that, folks, was the real travesty, not a tournament like the Canada Cup/World Cup, which finally allowed for as level a playing field as you can possibly get. Is it perfect? No. No tournament is but it's a hell of a lot closer to perfection than those old jokes that help build the myth about Russian hockey supremacy -- a myth that was destroyed as soon Canada's best got a chance to play them and which I don't doubt is painful for Russian fans to accept. I guess it's much easier to blame conspiracies and other phantoms than it is to accept the fact that maybe the better team won.

 

[Slay]

the myth about Russian hockey supremacy -- a myth that was destroyed as soon Canada's best got a chance to play them

And here how it sounds in Russian media: "In 1972 was destroyed the myth about the invincibility of professionals". Interesting, eh?

 

[Macman]

And here how it sounds in Russian media: "In 1972 was destroyed the myth about the invincibility of professionals". Interesting, eh?

So true. Perspective is everything.

 

[kjri]

Alan Eagleson himself has admitted that everything was scheduled to Canada's favour. I could not find the round robin schedule from the net, but it would be nice to see.

The referee in the third game was Don Koharski, a canadian. It was obvious to most of the people then, who watched the game, that Koharski dragged Canada back into the game that they were losing.

Canada Cup was the most important tournament to soviets and everybody else. There is no question about that.
I don't see Canada anyway "destroying soviet myth" in 70's and 80's. Canada was a myth also. In 72 Bobby Clarke did his "thing" and 87 Koharski his. That leaves 81 to soviets and 84 to Canada. I would say it is a draw.

 

[Gonchar]

I was on a different message board earlier, and I saw something. Canada plays EVERY game at home! Not only in the preliminary round, but in the ONE Championship game!!

How much B.S. is that?!?! If anything, the U.S. should get this home ice advantage because they only WON the last tourny!

How is this fair to any of the other countries?! Someone please explain

Are you an American??? Judging by that Russia/USA game last night maybe the Americans are better off not playing home games!!! Yikes the Russians made them look like pylons!!

 

[Kronblom]

So the Soviets were more thrilled by beating amateur teams at the world championships and Olympics than by beating beating Gretzky, Potvin, Lafleur and the best of the rest in the world? Sure. The Soviets never celebrated any win like they celebrated that night. They knew the signifigance.

Why bring up World Championships and Olympics into this debate? The soviets humilated the so called NHL-stars from Canada in the Canada Cup on canadian soil, no wonder they were happy with all the crap they had received from Canada before.

 

[Kronblom]

No I don't. If the tournament existed to promote hockey in the U.S. it would be played in the U.S. The tournament was created out of Canadian frustration at not having our best players facing the world's best and as a financial offshoot to help build the players' pension plan.

Sure...
It´s all about money, wake up!

 

[Macman]

Sure...
It´s all about money, wake up!

Let me get this straight. Players who already have more money than they could possibly spend give up their summer vacation to play more hockey for free, risk a possible-career ending injury, and they're doing it for money? There isn't one player on the Canadian team doing this for money and I seriously doubt the Swedes will be thinking about their bank accounts if they happen to win (or you either.)

 

[Macman]

Why bring up World Championships and Olympics into this debate? The soviets humilated the so called NHL-stars from Canada in the Canada Cup on canadian soil, no wonder they were happy with all the crap they had received from Canada before.

I brought up the worlds and Olympics because you said the Canada Cup was not that important. That implies that some other tournament is. I assumed you meant those. If you meant the Spengler Cup or the Izvestia, then I apologize.

 

[The Legend]

The Canada/World Cup is tailored towards North Americans and Europeans who have played in the NHL for a long time. The World Championships and Olympics are tailored towards Europeans. What is the problem with this?

Again, you guys have failed to prove to me why, if the tournament is fixed and in favour of Canada, do you watch the games?

The reason Canada and the States have more home games, is because of money, that I agree. That doesn't mean the owners and players are greedy. Nope, it means that there are better hockey fans who will sell out the games in North America, then in Europe. Plus, most of the players live in North America now anyways. To quote a yiddish word, it is a "schlep" to move a whole lot of players over to Europe for a tournament, so that European fans will stop whining that ONE major championship is not over there.

Again, there are 6 teams having home games. That's better than the World Champinships, where only 1 team has a home game.

 

[kastaure]

There is one and only one reason why most games are played in Canada.....

Fanbase.

Games in Canada will be played in sold out Arena twice the size of those in Eurpoeans or americans arena.

To create a tournement that seems to be major you need to show people enthusiasm and you will not get this from another place. I remember World Championship game of the last 4 years... if a game other then the final was having half of a Arena full it was because it was the home team playing against a neighbourgh team.

Here you could have Germany playing Slovakia and you will still fill the Arena (which like I said is usually more then twice the eurpoean one) and make this normally boring game an events.

You know that 80% of the tickets for 2 games in Montreal where sold in 1 week... 11 months before the event...

Try to beat that...

 

[Teezax]

I was on a different message board earlier, and I saw something. Canada plays EVERY game at home! Not only in the preliminary round, but in the ONE Championship game!!

How much B.S. is that?!?! If anything, the U.S. should get this home ice advantage because they only WON the last tourny!

How is this fair to any of the other countries?! Someone please explain

Like it would make a difference where Canada played, look how flat the US came out in St Paul yesterday, getting outshot 14-2 in the 1st. And we beat you in the Finals in Salt Lake, so what are you complaining about. In '96 we had home ice too. The bottom line is the better team wins.