Movies: Solo: A Star Wars Story, 25 May 2018 Release (Early reviews are in)

[AlanHUK]

Thanks. I naively assumed that Disney would respect canon. If they have no qualms about allowing Darth Maul to survive being cut in half and falling down a "thing," then I suppose that there's nothing stopping them from having Boba Fett survive the Sarlac pit and his standalone film take place after Return of the Jedi.

Clone Wars bought Maul back, and that was before Disney had control of anything.

Boba Fett surviving is in what is now 'legends' which is everything Disney stopped being canon.

So your criticism is essentially if they bring back Boba as well as Maul, Disney aren't respecting canon because they're following the original canon.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

The Clone Wars series has plenty of cheesy for kids episodes but there are some good ones, including with Maul and his brother, especially when Sidious learns about them and goes to kill them

 

[Bjorn Le]

Thanks. I naively assumed that Disney would respect canon. If they have no qualms about allowing Darth Maul to survive being cut in half and falling down a "thing," then I suppose that there's nothing stopping them from having Boba Fett survive the Sarlac pit and his standalone film take place after Return of the Jedi.

It's always been canon that Boba survives the pit.

 

[RandV]

It's always been canon that Boba survives the pit.

Well, "extended universe" canon at least, because of course the EU is going to delve into every little character

I don't think Disney has had anything to do with him yet post-RotJ?

 

[Bjorn Le]

Well, "extended universe" canon at least, because of course the EU is going to delve into every little character

I don't think Disney has had anything to do with him yet post-RotJ?

Even before. Lucas wanted to add a scene in RoTJ where he escapes but didn’t think it fit the movie. Nowhere does it explicitly say he dies either.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Sidious toys with Maul and Savage every second of that fight. It's one of the best (if not the best) lightsabre fights in the history of Star Wars.

 

[johnjm22]

Grace Randolph says she has an "inside" source who claims Bob Iger wants Kathleen Kennedy out. Allegedly Disney held a secret conference call with the execs from all their branches (LucasFilm, Marvel, Pixar along with others connected to Star Wars) to discuss options.

There's just one problem; there's nobody to replace Kathleen Kennedy with. Nobody wants the job. It's been offered to several people including JJ Abrams, but all have turned it down.

Other Notes:
-Disney is not happy that the SW fanbase appears to be "divided". They think it's not appealing to older conservatives and kids. They're also displeased with merchandise sales and the response from foreign markets. They want SW to appeal to everyone.

-The anthology films are indeed on hold, except Obi-Wan which they're still considering.

-Regarding episode 9, Kennedy has decided to step back and let JJ run the show.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Grace Randolph says she has an "inside" source who claims Bob Iger wants Kathleen Kennedy out. Allegedly Disney held a secret conference call with the execs from all their branches (LucasFilm, Marvel, Pixar along with others connected to Star Wars) to discuss options.

There's just one problem; there's nobody to replace Kathleen Kennedy with. Nobody wants the job. It's been offered to several people including JJ Abrams, but all have turned it down.

Other Notes:
-Disney is not happy that the SW fanbase appears to be "divided". They think it's not appealing to older conservatives and kids. They're also displeased with merchandise sales and the response from foreign markets. They want SW to appeal to everyone.

-The anthology films are indeed on hold, except Obi-Wan which they're still considering.

-Regarding episode 9, Kennedy has decided to step back and let JJ run the show.

There's nobody to replace Kennedy because who wants to take over this mess she's created ? She ran it into the ground and it's a huge uphill battle to get it back to the level it should have been at with minimal effort/intelligence/foresight.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

There's nobody to replace Kennedy because who wants to take over this mess she's created ? She ran it into the ground and it's a huge uphill battle to get it back to the level it should have been at with minimal effort/intelligence/foresight.

I have a MBA and a MA in Film Study, I'll gladly take the job for half of what they are paying Kennedy

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I have a MBA and a MA in Film Study, I'll gladly take the job for half of what they are paying Kennedy

Correction: no one with a name to ruin.

 

[Pilky01]

Makes sense that nobody with any skin in the game wants anything to do with the mess that is Star Wars.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Correction: no one with a name to ruin.

True. So Disney should really give me a chance. I cannot make things worse.

First order of business, KOTOR Netflix series. From before the Mandolorian Wars to the Jed Civil War to The Exile to Revan in the Unknown regions. 7 or 8 seasons of strong material. Reduce the number of theatrical release and as soon as 9 is done, switch the time period. It is riskier than what they are doing, but with good stories and great marketing, it can be very profitable.

 

[Player big P]

I would direct the shit out of a new Star Wars starring Emilia Clarke, Daisy Ridley, and myself, but that would be more of an..."art" film.

 

[johnjm22]

Kennedy certainly hasn't done a good job, but I'll say this in her defense; it's a tough job. That's part of the reason nobody wants it.

What can you really do with SW as a movie franchise? Nothing you make can live up to the originals.

I think these new SW movies were going to run out of steam regardless of who was in charge. Kennedy's poor management just made them run out of steam more quickly than they should have.

 

[Pilky01]

Either Disney didn't really understand the property when they bought it, or they did but still felt like they could force the issue regardless and somehow make Star Wars a parallel to the MCU.

Maybe it was 100% KK's vision to make movies every single year, but I think the more likely scenario is that that imperative was forced upon her.

I am certain somebody could have made it work, (the MCU is basically a miracle and people don't give Fiege and that creative team nearly enough credit for turning joke characters like Thor and Captain America into a perpetual blockbuster machine) but it was never going to be easy. A forgotten aspect that the early MCU had going for it was that there were no expectations. The MCU had a 4 or 5 year head start where they could find their footing and establish their tone because there were no expectations or hype. These new Star Wars movies were expected to hit the ground running at an MCU pace...and it wasn't necessarily the fans who expected that, it was the Disney execs.

Anyway, TLJ is on Netflix now so I put it on for a bit last night and rewatched the scene where Rose tazes Finn for desertion but then 5 minutes later she joins him in deserting after Finn and Poe give one of the worst plot explanations I have ever seen in my life. Its a flabbergastingly stupid movie. I don't understand how such a dumb movie got made.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

True. So Disney should really give me a chance. I cannot make things worse.

First order of business, KOTOR Netflix series. From before the Mandolorian Wars to the Jed Civil War to The Exile to Revan in the Unknown regions. 7 or 8 seasons of strong material. Reduce the number of theatrical release and as soon as 9 is done, switch the time period. It is riskier than what they are doing, but with good stories and great marketing, it can be very profitable.

Fire RJ, hire someone like Denis Villeneuve and make the trilogy on Darth Bane

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Kennedy certainly hasn't done a good job, but I'll say this in her defense; it's a tough job. That's part of the reason nobody wants it.

What can you really do with SW as a movie franchise? Nothing you make can live up to the originals.

I think these new SW movies were going to run out of steam regardless of who was in charge. Kennedy's poor management just made them run out of steam more quickly than they should have.

Yeah if you have no imagination, or if you haven't read the EU books, or played KOTOR (I haven't but people are crazy about it still). The entire universe with all of its amazing characters were at their disposal. I have ZERO problems with disney deciding to throw away the EU. But come up with better stuff then. They already had great material which could have been adapted. Just steal from it however you wish. It doesn't have to be the same thing. But yeah I completely disagree with your take of "What can you do with the SW franchise?". It's an insanely huge universe with amazing characters. You can do sequels, prequels, reset in other parts of the universe... it's limitless. Also, it doesn't even have to live up to the originals to still maintain a high level.

I think it's nonsense to adopt this stance that they were going to run out of steam. Such a defeatist and nihilistic stance. They were only going to run out of steam with a soulless exec like Kennedy at the top. Put someone who loves and understands what makes star wars tick at the top in charge of it all and it will be great in so many ways. People have already suggested a solution many times - Dave Filoni in charge of creative with a business guy/gal to complement him. This cannot be any worse than what we're seeing.

I personally think a revival of star wars start with a really good TV show with some big names and a big budget.

 

[johnjm22]

Yeah if you have no imagination, or if you haven't read the EU books, or played KOTOR (I haven't but people are crazy about it still). The entire universe with all of its amazing characters were at their disposal. I have ZERO problems with disney deciding to throw away the EU. But come up with better stuff then. They already had great material which could have been adapted. Just steal from it however you wish. It doesn't have to be the same thing. But yeah I completely disagree with your take of "What can you do with the SW franchise?". It's an insanely huge universe with amazing characters. You can do sequels, prequels, reset in other parts of the universe... it's limitless. Also, it doesn't even have to live up to the originals to still maintain a high level.

I think it's nonsense to adopt this stance that they were going to run out of steam. Such a defeatist and nihilistic stance. They were only going to run out of steam with a soulless exec like Kennedy at the top. Put someone who loves and understands what makes star wars tick at the top in charge of it all and it will be great in so many ways. People have already suggested a solution many times - Dave Filoni in charge of creative with a business guy/gal to complement him. This cannot be any worse than what we're seeing.

I personally think a revival of star wars start with a really good TV show with some big names and a big budget.

The new films can't live up to the originals no matter how good they are.

One of the reasons SW films are successful is because the feel special. They're a rare cultural event. No matter how good they are, if you keep pumping them out every year they will lose that specialness.

EU books, KOTOR, CW and Rebels might all be good but that doesn't mean they'd make good films. People like the huge epicness of SW movies. In order to maintain that massive scale you have to have a huge conflict and it always ends up being the same thing: a rag tag group of good guys fighting a big powerful evil organization and a protagonist that's struggling with a good vs evil inner conflict. What else can you really do with the movies while still making them feel HUGE?

Disney blew their load. They pumped out too much SW too quickly. They should have stuck to making one SW film every two or three years to keep brand integrity and keep it feeling special.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

The new films can't live up to the originals no matter how good they are.

One of the reasons SW films are successful is because the feel special. They're a rare cultural event. No matter how good they are, if you keep pumping them out every year they will lose that specialness.

EU books, KOTOR, CW and Rebels might all be good but that doesn't mean they'd make good films. People like the huge epicness of SW movies. In order to maintain that massive scale you have to have a huge conflict and it always ends up being the same thing: a rag tag group of good guys fighting a big powerful evil organization and a protagonist that's struggling with a good vs evil inner conflict. What else can you really do with the movies while still making them feel HUGE?

Disney blew their load. They pumped out too much SW too quickly. They should have stuck to making one SW film every two or three years to keep brand integrity and keep it feeling special.

The Marvel experiment flies in the face of your argument. The only argument FOR franchise fatigue that makes any sense is on a quality standpoint. If high output means low quality then you have diminishing returns, I agree with this. But as long as you can have high quality then the output is literally infinite. If that wasn't true.. people wouldn't show up for Infinity war right after Black panther. People wouldn't show up for Deadpool right after infinity war and black panther. And I guarantee you that Ant Man 2 does way better than Solo... and it will be proof that movie fatigue is a creation of people who want to excuse their favorite franchise's poor performances. Unless you are telling me that marvel doesn't suffer from movie fatigue while SW does.... and I'll call BS on that because there's just as much available content for SW as Marvel. Marvel succeeds whereas DC/SW fail. And it is not because of any reason other than the fact that the content put out by DC/SW SUCKS BALLS. BTW DC is another proof that franchise fatigue is a myth. They barely put out any content, yet people don't buy it. It's because the content blows. There's really only one common denominator here, and it's quite obvious what it is - QUALITY.

 

[XX]

Kennedy certainly hasn't done a good job, but I'll say this in her defense; it's a tough job. That's part of the reason nobody wants it.

What can you really do with SW as a movie franchise? Nothing you make can live up to the originals.

I think these new SW movies were going to run out of steam regardless of who was in charge. Kennedy's poor management just made them run out of steam more quickly than they should have.

You need good stories and scripts
You need the talent to direct and produce them
You need the flexibility to allow the talent you've hired to do their thing
You need the patience to give the talent the time they need to produce quality

Disney is often starting with a premise, not a story ("Give us a Boba Fett movie!"). Then it either hires the wrong people or people they don't trust. Then Disney compresses the schedule by forcing movies to come out on a certain date. Marvel wouldn't shit out an Avengers movie if they genuinely needed more time.

Star Wars won't ever be shit until they fix the process.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I don't know if he wants the job, but Disney should ask Kevin Feige, President of Marvel and architect of the MCU, to head Disney. Phase 3 is almost over and Feige has stood behind what's possibly the most successful group of films ever made. The thing is, Feige wouldn't let Disney tell him what to do or how to make the movies. However, Disney needs someone who is competent and independent, so if not Feige, it has to be someone who can do that job. Not that this really matters, I'm sure Feige was offered the job and said no.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I am not sure anything can "save" Star Wars.

It can't be like the MCU, it's too sci-fantasy. MCU is wild but grounded in our world (there's Earth, there's New York, there's the UN etc...) so that gives it mass appeal Star Wars cannot have.

The Last Jedi was the nail in the coffin: they tried going new places and instead of people enjoying the new spin you get the neckbeards crying about how many women are in prominent roles in the movie and how they wanted to see Luke fight the walkers and win

 

[RandV]

I am not sure anything can "save" Star Wars.

It can't be like the MCU, it's too sci-fantasy. MCU is wild but grounded in our world (there's Earth, there's New York, there's the UN etc...) so that gives it mass appeal Star Wars cannot have.

The Last Jedi was the nail in the coffin: they tried going new places and instead of people enjoying the new spin you get the neckbeards crying about how many women are in prominent roles in the movie and how they wanted to see Luke fight the walkers and win

I don't think that's really a constructive way to look at it. Yes there's a significant group of people who are pretty idiotic in their criticism, but a few thousand angry reddit users alone isn't enough to tank a franchise. These types of people will complain about and protest against a multitude of different things, typically it doesn't have any effect. The thing is to fully succeed you need a synergy where you both make the devout fanbase ("neckbeards") happy/excited and draw in the more casual audience. This is something the MCU does exceptionally well making it the obvious example, but another one that worked out great was HBO's Game of Thrones.

For Star Wars/Solo to tank like it did there's a broader fundamental problem here. Hard to say for sure exactly what it is, though I have my own ideas, but pissing off your most devout fans isn't going to help. While you're never going to make everybody happy, in general Marvel fans love the MCU, A Song of Fire and Ice fans love Game of Thrones (...or at least through the first 4 seasons), so why aren't the most devout Star Wars fans loving Disney's Star Wars?

 

[RandV]

Yeah if you have no imagination, or if you haven't read the EU books, or played KOTOR (I haven't but people are crazy about it still). The entire universe with all of its amazing characters were at their disposal. I have ZERO problems with disney deciding to throw away the EU. But come up with better stuff then. They already had great material which could have been adapted. Just steal from it however you wish. It doesn't have to be the same thing. But yeah I completely disagree with your take of "What can you do with the SW franchise?". It's an insanely huge universe with amazing characters. You can do sequels, prequels, reset in other parts of the universe... it's limitless. Also, it doesn't even have to live up to the originals to still maintain a high level.

For me that's kind of the source root of the problem with the new Star Wars. While I've never been a huge Star Wars nerd, as a teen in the 90's I happily delved into some of the EU books and of course got into many of the video games that were set before, during, and after the events of the original trilogy. I'd say that's a huge factor why Star Wars has remained relevant to this day, because the original trilogy set it up to let peoples imaginations run wild.

The Last Jedi on the other hand, feels more like a film crafted more specifically please film making auteurs. Practically all the positive reviews focus on things like how it subverts expectations, and things like that. What's overlooked though is how technically the movie starts immediately where the last one left off and ends two literally two days later with the entirety of the Resistance/Rebellion whittled down to the point where you can fit everyone left in the Millennium Falcon.

There were a lot of things I liked in the movie but where exactly do you build off there? Where's the room to create something like Shadows of the Empire, or any of the other number of games/books from around that period? I don't know if that's necessarily what everyone wants, but it's certainly not something that Kennedy/Johnson seem to get.

 

[Dicdonya]

I am not sure anything can "save" Star Wars.

It can't be like the MCU, it's too sci-fantasy. MCU is wild but grounded in our world (there's Earth, there's New York, there's the UN etc...) so that gives it mass appeal Star Wars cannot have.

The Last Jedi was the nail in the coffin: they tried going new places and instead of people enjoying the new spin you get the neckbeards crying about how many women are in prominent roles in the movie and how they wanted to see Luke fight the walkers and win

Absolute BS. If Star Wars did not have mass appeal, they would have never made billions on the recent movies, which was almost entirely driven by name recognition. There would be very little, or no, extended universe, of which there is buttloads. No one would have cared about it, 40ish years after the first one. Star Wars has mass appeal in spades.

Hilariously, you seem to not understand how Star Wars would keep making money, yet you already, offensively so, identified who, and how the movie might have not pissed off a lot of fans. Also, its quite sad that you feel people should just "shut up and like it" when movies set in a universe, with decades of backstory, crap all over that universe. New spin, yeah it was, and it was ****. Solo paid the price for it. Ep 9 will be next if Disney does not reel in KK.

Even then it may be too late, because RJ decided subverting every single setup that JJ left for the characters was a really swell idea. It was not, and now JJ has to try to pick the pieces back up and attempt to make a semi coherent trilogy. He deserves a ton of praise if he manages to do it.